The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I watched Casserly today on Redskins 100 and if he is poised to return he is doing a good job of acting otherwise -- Finlay was asking him questions like what are they going to do about Norman and he goes he has no idea what they would do...he had that tone in that conversation where he didn't come off plugged in at all -- not that he should be but if he is returning either they haven't briefed him yet or he is protesting too much.

IMO, Casserly reaped the benefits of Beathard.  I don't think much of him as a GM.  Hope he stay with NFLN.

[Redskinzfan30]

8 minutes ago, TK said:

Like I said, he's running out of nostalgia hires.

 

And the only ones that'll continue to fall for it are the casual, not as educated about the team, rah rah fans. You can find them in a bunch of those Facebook fan groups or at the Redskins Rallys for away games.

 

 

Do you know if Gibbs name has been thrown around at all? Not for coaching obviously but in an executive role? That seems like a big splash that would draw some positive attention but I wonder if Gibbs would even have any interest 

[skinsfansarge]

I know years ago fans either were going to or did show up at Redskins Park with pitchforks to protest. Not saying we need the pitchforks, but I am all in with a fan protest. I’m sure the Junkies and other people like 106.7 would join. Hell, I’d even be willing to help financially if we needed signs or ummm beer. Lol HTTR and of course #FireBruceAllen 

[TK]

12 minutes ago, Redskinzfan30 said:

Do you know if Gibbs name has been thrown around at all? Not for coaching obviously but in an executive role? That seems like a big splash that would draw some positive attention but I wonder if Gibbs would even have any interest 

Joe ain't leaving the grandkids

[Renegade7]

18 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Im not exactly on the GM hiring the coach bandwagon.  I like an executive in charge to hire both the GM, who has roster control, and the coach.  The reason being is I don’t think the person who has roster control should have the ability to scape goat the coach if he fails to put together a good roster.

 

Think of it like a CEO who hires a CFO to run finances and COO to run operations.  They both report to the CEO, and have to work together, but have defined roles. 

 

The key is to have a really good football guy at the top so he can evaluate the roster and he coaching separately and determine if either side is lacking.  

 

You gotta trust Gibbs to see through two people trying to scapegoat each other otherwise we shouldn't do it. 

 

Is this separation you are talking about common?  Because in my head i want Gibbs more because Snyder trusts him and will let him get the people he needs fix so much if the franchise that has nothing to do with football. 

 

Same time, we have to make sure that at this age its clear who would take over when steps down for health reasons (almost have to expect it at this point, you know he's going to go all in).  I'd argue this is a risk, but maybe our last chance to save this thing before the whole franchise implodes.  There's really no one else i can think of that i would be fine with Snyder not wanting to fire.

4 minutes ago, TK said:

Joe ain't leaving the grandkids

Sounds about right, is he still involved with his racing teams he's founded?  Was looking around for that.

[Skinsinparadise]

I am guessing of all the things mentioned the most likely scenario is them chasing Bowles and chasing him hard.    It fits some narratives including Manusky is the least safe among the higher up (coaches/personnel) returning.  Dan's love for nostalgia.  It has some splash but not as much as I'd think Dan thinks it has. 

[Andre The Giant]

30 minutes ago, RWJ said:

IMO, Casserly reaped the benefits of Beathard.  I don't think much of him as a GM.  Hope he stay with NFLN.

 

Totally agree. Casserly is a terrible GM. 

[skins island connection]

 

1 hour ago, Redskinzfan30 said:

Do you know if Gibbs name has been thrown around at all? Not for coaching obviously but in an executive role? That seems like a big splash that would draw some positive attention but I wonder if Gibbs would even have any interest 

 

 To be honest, I would prefer Gibbs NOT come back to the Redskins.

Why?

Today's NFL is different than it was when he was here on his 2nd stint, and its not even close compared to his 1st.

The players, media, the CBA, social media, limited practices, and a few other things, would all end up being more of a hindrance than a help to Gibbs.

 

He was successful during his first time because as he's well known for, was a " mental coach " who could talk to players, coach them, and to a degree brainwash a player into believing that player could do the job at task, and he was very good at it. The saying of Gibbs being the most psychological coach was not a fainted comment; Gibbs knew how to talk to players...back then.  But players today are far more wound up in themselves to allow someone like Gibbs to give him humility, and with social media being so crazy, Gibbs would pull his hair out in disbelief.

 

But the biggest reason is Bruce Allen, hands down not even close. Bruce has high praise for Gibbs but you and I both know Bruce would throw Joe under the bus eventually, and that's not how I'd want to see one of the greatest coaches ever to be lowered to. Gibbs knows how to do the football aspect, but Bruce constantly taping his hands with his fantasy football god mentality would end up giving Joe garbage players or far-removed one-time MVP type players.

 

The only possible way that Gibbs could come back and be successful would be for the #1 asshole of this organization firing the #2 asshole of this organization, and thus far the view of how things are going on this team, that would be an almost impossible scenario.

 

 

 

 

 

[Redskinzfan30]

13 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

 

 

 To be honest, I would prefer Gibbs NOT come back to the Redskins.

Why?

Today's NFL is different than it was when he was here on his 2nd stint, and its not even close compared to his 1st.

The players, media, the CBA, social media, limited practices, and a few other things, would all end up being more of a hindrance than a help to Gibbs.

 

He was successful during his first time because as he's well known for, was a " mental coach " who could talk to players, coach them, and to a degree brainwash a player into believing that player could do the job at task, and he was very good at it. The saying of Gibbs being the most psychological coach was not a fainted comment; Gibbs knew how to talk to players...back then.  But players today are far more wound up in themselves to allow someone like Gibbs to give him humility, and with social media being so crazy, Gibbs would pull his hair out in disbelief.

 

But the biggest reason is Bruce Allen, hands down not even close. Bruce has high praise for Gibbs but you and I both know Bruce would throw Joe under the bus eventually, and that's not how I'd want to see one of the greatest coaches ever to be lowered to. Gibbs knows how to do the football aspect, but Bruce constantly taping his hands with his fantasy football god mentality would end up giving Joe garbage players or far-removed one-time MVP type players.

 

The only possible way that Gibbs could come back and be successful would be for the #1 asshole of this organization firing the #2 asshole of this organization, and thus far the view of how things are going on this team, that would be an almost impossible scenario.

 

 

 

 

 

That’s fair. I was hoping more of a Gibbs taking Allen’s place type of scenario. I’m hoping against hope that Allen is gone and right now I’d take anything. Is it bad if given the choice between Allen and Vinny I’d have to hesitate on either one for different reasons obviously. But I’m not sure which is the lesser of two evils 

[lavar1156]

2 hours ago, Birdlives said:

Yeah, Charley Casserly, that’s who we need. Guy was terrible his first time around, so let’s give him another go. After all, most Skins fans won’t remember! But, nostalgia!

 

A famous man once said, "cheap and available"

[Burgundy Yoda]

I wouldnt wish this upon Gibbs to come back here and coach again, I would be so furious watching Bruce Allen try and make back door moves undermining a legendary coach. We all know it would happen, Gibbs would be helpless. 

[RWJ]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am guessing of all the things mentioned the most likely scenario is them chasing Bowles and chasing him hard.    It fits some narratives including Manusky is the least safe among the higher up (coaches/personnel) returning.  Dan's love for nostalgia.  It has some splash but not as much as I'd think Dan thinks it has. 

Could be.  HOPEFULLY, we will learn a lot on Monday.  I hope we get shutout and blown out by the Eagles on Sunday.  Maybe as other's have mentioned it MIGHT get Bruce a ticket out of the FO.

[88Comrade2000]

The only splash that will work is Dan hiring a real GM and letting the GM run the show.  Bruce is gone. The GM decides Jay fate.

 

I actually don't think the fanbase is at the point they were in 2003 and 2009, where  they were ready to revolt.

 

Dan quelled that with hiring Gibbs and hiring Shanny.

 

We are getting close to the point in 2003 & 2009. We just need a double digit losing season of 12 or more losses. That would be the final death knell.

 

There are some people who think the Skins will be fine in 2019 and will resume where we were with the 6-3 start.

 

Dan thinks nostalgia will bring fans back.  No, hiring competent people and letting them do their jobs; will be the only thing to stop the tide of the dwindling fanbase.

 

[SkinsFTW]

28 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

The only splash that will work is Dan hiring a real GM and letting the GM run the show.

 

 

Good luck with that. If he did it then it'll last 1 season (like Marty) maybe 2 at most.

 

Danny Boy just can't keep his hands out of the cookie jar. He'll never ever do it unless the guy behind the scenes allows him to continue to play fantasy football, like he's doing right now.

30 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

We are getting close to the point in 2003 & 2009. We just need a double digit losing season of 12 or more losses. That would be the final death knell.

 

 

Except in 2003 and 2009 there were still pissed off fans showing up to the games. Now it appears that even when winning most don't give 2 ****s because they already know it'll end up in comedic fashion. And weren't they once again proven right?

[FrFan]

6 hours ago, Birdlives said:

If Dan Snyder does have any social media and doesnt track his team on multiple platforms; isn’t that an indictment in and of itself? How can you run a multi million dollar organization with your head in the ****ing sand? 

Not in the sand but a few inches above

 

5 hours ago, Redskinzfan30 said:

Do you know if Gibbs name has been thrown around at all? Not for coaching obviously but in an executive role? That seems like a big splash that would draw some positive attention but I wonder if Gibbs would even have any interest 

Besides family he's already been used by Danny boy as a promo tool

[Wildbunny]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Within that group I think Schaefer might be the best target.  Doug from what many have said is very close to Bruce and has has back.  I like Larry but I doubt he'd rock the boat and I don't blame him for it -- Bruce is his boss. 

Interesting, I would believe that Schaefer doesn't have much weight with Dan Snyder.

He's reportedly being a probable one exiting, so at least that would force him to go on the move.

 

Doug seems the best target to me. He does have Bruce's back, but I think he loves the Redskins more than Bruce, and seeing how the fans hates Bruce could overturn him. Then I believe Dan would have a tougher time firing Doug than Bruce. Firing LaFemina was easy, but Doug... You just cannot do that...

[Est.1974]

On 12/16/2018 at 5:02 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

Joey T probably doesn't realize the can of worms he opened on twitter with that comment, Ive been reading some of them, funny stuff.  I am presuming Joe T is a Bruce guy.  I recall he was a Vinny guy. 

 

 

 

 

Genuine question, is Theismann on the inside, i.e. close to Bruce/Dan etc, is this tweet from a couple of weeks back pure coincidence, or does it hold some relevance as to what might be going on.

 

Seems quite a topical statement now.

[skinsmania123]

6 hours ago, RWJ said:

Could be.  HOPEFULLY, we will learn a lot on Monday.  I hope we get shutout and blown out by the Eagles on Sunday.  Maybe as other's have mentioned it MIGHT get Bruce a ticket out of the FO.

It absolutely won't IMO.  He is riding the "injury" how is it my fault ticket.  In fact the "injury" how is it my fault ticket is keeping both Club Jay and Bruce in their positions.  But if the practices are anything like we are hearing about then how can you not have a lot of injuries?  Your players are not being primed for durability.  They are soft.  I guess I find it somewhat ironic that Jon Gruden just released their strength and conditioning coach, who he had a long relationship with,  due to 16 players going on IR during the season in Oakland.   And I know Jon is not known for soft practices.  So just trying to be fair.  But I think there has to be a relationship between conditioning and injury prevention.

[FrFan]

On 12/16/2018 at 6:02 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

Joey T probably doesn't realize the can of worms he opened on twitter with that comment, Ive been reading some of them, funny stuff.  I am presuming Joe T is a Bruce guy.  I recall he was a Vinny guy.

He's also known as Dan's muppet

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, FrFan said:

He's also known as Dan's muppet

 

Even IF Riddick comes in... does it fix anything?

 

I'm not sold on him as a personnel guy anyways. But even if he IS capable of getting the job done, does anyone actually see the FO structure changing?

 

Allen will still be calling the shots. Riddick would be the GM and by default have to do whatever Bruce wants or Bruce will become jaded and Riddick will get canned anyways. Williams will continue being the face of the FO in order for the team to minimize PR hits (at least in Snyder's/Allen's eyes) and the guys who are coveted around the league (I'm not sure how good they actually are because I don't personally know them) like Schaeffer and Smith will move to greener pastures. 

 

More of the same, in my opinion.

 

But to the post I quoted: Wouldn't surprise me in the least if that was Dan asking Theismann to throw his name out there to see what fan reaction was like and then report back. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Riddick seems ultra sharp on TV, articulate, thoughtful and quick on his feet.  The irony about Bruce is the rap behind the scenes about him is far from hot but when he makes his rare public appearances he comes off just as incompetent as his critics say he is -- between the gaffes and the idiotic press release he read in air in 2017.

 

But I know Riddick's rep as an executive isn't as hot as his rep as a smooth talking head.  So I am mixed on him.  I'd take him though over what we have now.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Riddick seems ultra sharp on TV, articulate, thoughtful and quick on his feet.  The irony about Bruce is the rap behind the scenes about him is far from hot but when he makes his rare public appearances he comes off just as incompetent as his critics say he is -- between the gaffes and the idiotic press release he read in air in 2017.

 

But I know Riddick's rep as an executive isn't as hot as his rep as a smooth talking head.  So I am mixed on him.  I'd take him though over what we have now.

That's the thing.

 

I'd take almost anything over what we have now.

 

But does a minimal upgrade actually help? If we are going to do it, why not actually upgrade?

 

And does Riddick replace Allen? Or just become another pawn on Allen's staff?

 

I have my feelings on the matter, but that's the rub in my opinion.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

That's the thing.

 

I'd take almost anything over what we have now.

 

But does a minimal upgrade actually help? If we are going to do it, why not actually upgrade?

 

And does Riddick replace Allen? Or just become another pawn on Allen's staff?

 

I have my feelings on the matter, but that's the rub in my opinion.

 

Agree but am not sweating Riddick unless it happens.   What I'd like about him is he screams competence - maybe the most articulate talking head about the NFL right now on air.  But that stuff is secondary at best to me.  He's typically not mentioned by the insider types who track the best talent evaluators as being anything special on that count.

 

I'd presume the easiest thing to do would be to elevate Kyle Smith.  From the few interviews I've seen of him, he's not charismatic or that articulate but he has a growing rep as a really good evaluator.   Schaffer from what I've seen is articulate and has some charisma but is more of a money guy that a football guy.  I'd rather have the head of personnel being a dude that specializes in personnel -- unless you are really special at other things like lets say Howie Roseman with Philly.  

[Jhans76]

Not sure Louis Riddick fits the narrative.   https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/12/03/louis-riddick-redskins-claiming-reuben-foster-asinine-playoff-chances-over/?utm_term=.ce756235920b

 

Says disagrees with it and Doug's comments. 

[Andre The Giant]

15 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

if there is a little glimmer of hope where if Grant and Loverro's sources are right in that Bruce isn't totally safe.

 

Best case scenario is they get blown out this Sunday and people keep doing this below.  On twitter, people seem very organized.  People leaving messages to Dan's wife is perfect.  I see some are leaving messages to Bruce -- what's the point of that if he's the target?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’ve read enough good things about him, that’d I’d be cool if they just promoted Eric Schaffer and let him run everything (Business and Football). He’s earned it, been loyal, and probably knows what needs to change.  Would be kind of a Howie Roseman-type move, which worked out great for Philly.

 

Outsiders that come in keep being blindsided by the culture.