The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

29 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

On a side note, perhaps it’s out there and I just haven’t seen it yet, but I’m surprised nobody has chimed in with the “you guys are mourning the marketing dept., you’ll complain about anything” take.  As if the outrage is built on folks thinking Brian LaFemina wins football games.  No, the outrage is built off of yet more dysfunction, where Bruce Allen reigns supreme AGAIN.

 

I've heard enough narratives from people covering the team that the 5-6 people on this thread who often spun things on behalf of Bruce (some of whom have abandoned that recently) or Dan but mainly Bruce, really have Dan's rap down well because Dan likely thinks the same way or at  the very least its the narrative that Bruce seems to be selling to him.  The narrative of the media overplays things and the fans in turn overreact.  The roster is really really good just befallen by bad luck.  And every move fans don't like have a perfectly reasonable and logical explanation for it -- eventually they will just chill, settle down and they will enjoy the ride eventually.  And then we can all reluctantly give Bruce credit and give him his due. 

 

Ironically, I was expecting some back and forth with Lafemina so having the debates I've had with these people on the thread (and to each their own on that front so I don't blame anyone for having different opinions -- different strokes, etc) really prepared me well for it.  But Lafemina wasn't really heavy handed on that front, it was mainly that with or without dysfunction winning tends to bring fans back.   

 

Just listened  to Mike Jones.  He's painted Lafemina's ouster as a Bruce driven thing.  He goes Bruce's survival instinct is to have a scapegoat every year and this year its Lafemina's fault for not properly addressing attendance issues.  And he's been hearing rumblings about that for weeks.   I am gathering the scapegoat for the 2016 season was Scot.  2017 our preceding QB.   2018 its Lafemina. 

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Bruce Allen isn't the problem.  Of course he needs to be fired, but there's only one person in that building who refuses to do so.  He's the problem.

 

I guess there is no way to really know.  But the picture being painted by multiple guys with sources to the team.  Dan is a douche and incompetent but Bruce is far from his crony.  Bruce is his own brand of being a douche and incompetent.  

 

Agree Dan is the problem considering his own issues and he's the one who hires these people.  My one hope though is from what I hear Schaffer and Kyle Smith aren't incompetent and are nice people.  So I am hoping Dan lucks into class and competence -- granted his own incompetence will always weigh it down.  But hopefully by breaking up the Vadar-Emperor like combination -- it takes the steam out of some albeit not all of the dysfunction.  Or so I hope. 

 

 

[justice98]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That’s the saddest part.  He was doing his best to protect Dan, a very difficult job in and of itself.  Then Dan fires him.

 

On a side note, perhaps it’s out there and I just haven’t seen it yet, but I’m surprised nobody has chimed in with the “you guys are mourning the marketing dept., you’ll complain about anything” take.  As if the outrage is built on folks thinking Brian LaFemina wins football games.  No, the outrage is built off of yet more dysfunction, where Bruce Allen reigns supreme AGAIN.

 

Also, just think about this, with where this team and season has gone, who ends up being fired?

 

The newest regime of marketing executives and DJ Swearinger.  Can’t make this stuff up.

 

But the outrage is a little much. Dysfunction is what this franchise does, the Lafemina firing isnt any worse than anything else they do that's stupid.  It's just one more thing on the pile, and not even that high on the pile. Maybe because the marketing team seems like innocent victims.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, justice98 said:

 

But the outrage is a little much. Dysfunction is what this franchise does, the Lafemina firing isnt any worse than anything else they do that's stupid.  It's just one more thing on the pile, and not even that high on the pile. Maybe because the marketing team seems like innocent victims.

I’m not losing sleep that LaFemina and the gang won’t be able to feed their kids.  I’m sure they’ll all be fine.  In fact, I’m sure they were looking for an exit strategy after realizing that Dan and Bruce can’t be saved and that they better get out before their name is mud, like most folks who spend a lot of time here.

 

The outrage is rooted in the fact that after so many disasters for going on ten years with Bruce and 20 with Dan, the only guys getting fired are those speaking the truth and trying to bring about change.

[wunderhill]

5 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

But the outrage is a little much. Dysfunction is what this franchise does, the Lafemina firing isnt any worse than anything else they do that's stupid.  It's just one more thing on the pile, and not even that high on the pile. Maybe because the marketing team seems like innocent victims.

Has nothing to do with it being worse, "The pile" is at its peak. the **** is running over. what you're seeing isnt a "little much", it's the breaking point.

[RandyHolt]

Maybe a tell all Lafemina interview would be handy in resolving our "situation".  While publicly making Dan look bad for employing Bruce may embolden his support for him, its a risk we are willing to take.

 

Actually, our org is so backwards that opposite George may be most effective.  Lets all send emails / snails to Dan telling him how great a job Bruce is doing, that we need more seating/bigger stadium, that his moves in handling our QBs has proven to be very effective... that its great being a fan winning on the field, and off. Just lie about everything.  It's gotta work better than the truth.

 

 

[justice98]

19 minutes ago, wunderhill said:

Has nothing to do with it being worse, "The pile" is at its peak. the **** is running over. what you're seeing isnt a "little much", it's the breaking point.

 

Eh, seen this movie before.  It's always the breaking point....until the next time.  And then that time will be the peak. And the time after that.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[wunderhill]

Just now, justice98 said:

 

Eh, seen this movie before.  It's always the breaking point....until the next time.  And then that time will be the peak. And the time after that.

Yeah, you're right. Attendance isnt down at games to an all time low, Cowboys TV ratings in DC isnt higher than the skins. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Vinny?  Zorn?  Spurrier?

 

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

36 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

But the outrage is a little much. Dysfunction is what this franchise does, the Lafemina firing isnt any worse than anything else they do that's stupid.  It's just one more thing on the pile, and not even that high on the pile. Maybe because the marketing team seems like innocent victims.

 

For me personally, it's not that I care too much about marketing, but it felt like this Lafemina guy might be a sign of a new direction. Maybe it was stupid of me to think that, but when we brought in a well-respected guy who had worked for the NFL, I felt like maybe we were beginning to seed the organization with vetted, quality people. I even went so far to think that maybe Lafemina could help revamp the entire team (non-football and football operations) over time. I viewed him as a cornerstone and maybe step 1 of a multi-step process. Also, if he's well-respected and competent, I hoped that he'd help open doors to higher-quality folks to join the organization. 

 

In less than a year, we are back to the blind leading the blind and our only hope for a bubble-up 9 or 10 win season is for all the breaks to go our way one year. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Points below which make this all feel like weird times.  In the past, you could see how the ship could be righted.  But this seems like a Titanic -- not just off the field but on the field.  

 

What rabbit can they pull out of the hat?  Giving Gibbs some BS advisory title if that's what they think will save them -- will come off almost as flat (though granted not as flat) as how they fluffed up the new title they gave Doug.  Nostalgia IMO doesn't do it anymore.

 

My point is I think they are boxed in with no easy solution PR wise -- off the field or on the field.

 

 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/6-weeks-redskins-have-been-circus-so-what-happens-next

But that stuff all got pushed to the backburner when news emerged that the Redskins fired Chief Operating Officer Brian Lafemina along with a trio of other senior business officials. 

These guys got hired earlier this year, and weren't even given a full football season to implement their strategy. Huh?

The moves just bring more questions and looking ahead, there aren't that many answers.

Who will play quarterback in 2019? What about free agents like Jamison Crowder and Preston Smith? The Redskins need to completely overhaul their secondary, and might not have much cash for free agent help. 

Now, with the ouster of Lafemina, what happens with ticket sales and the search for a new stadium? Does Bruce Allen take back over the business duties in addition to running the football operation?

It would be nice to get direct questions from Allen or Redskins leadership, but that hasn't happened. There will also be decisions made on the coaching staff, and the normal ebb and flow of coaching and scouting changes in the offseason. 

Each year, Jay Gruden meets with Washington owner Dan Snyder once the season ends. That will happen next week. What will the outcome of that meeting be?

The questions are mounting for the Redskins. The answers are hard to find. 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

9 minutes ago, wunderhill said:

Yeah, you're right. Attendance isnt down at games to an all time low, Cowboys TV ratings in DC isnt higher than the skins. 

 

For years I laughed at the posters, Tweeters, radio show callers who claimed that this would catch up to Snyder and the Redskins. I was steadfast that they would always be 1A in the area and nothing could kill off the fan base. I'm ready to admit that I was wrong. 

 

The only thing I can cling to now is that a winning Redskins team would still outdraw a winning baseball/hockey/basketball team...but the likelihood of the Skins being consistent winners anytime soon is so low, that what's the point of even debating that. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

For me personally, it's not that I care too much about marketing, but it felt like this Lafemina guy might be a sign of a new direction. Maybe it was stupid of me to think that, but when we brought in a well-respected guy who had worked for the NFL, I felt like maybe we were beginning to seed the organization with vetted, quality people. I even went so far to think that maybe Lafemina could help revamp the entire team (non-football and football operations) over time. I viewed him as a cornerstone and maybe step 1 of a multi-step process. Also, if he's well-respected and competent, I hoped that he'd help open doors to higher-quality folks to join the organization. 

 

In less than a year, we are back to the blind leading the blind and our only hope for a bubble-up 9 or 10 win season is for all the breaks to go our way one year. 

 

I think Craig Hoffman summed it up well a few minutes ago on 106.7.  Dan is perceived as disconnected from his customers -- the fans.  Lafemina was courted by Dan for years to work for him -- he gave him the task to him help reconnect to the fans and Dan's verdict is he's been doing it right all along and Brian is the one who doesn't get it.

 

And Dan/Bruce per usual aren't willing to explain that move or anything as for the direction of the franchise -- so its a big expletive directed at the fans. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think Craig Hoffman summed it up well a few minutes ago on 106.7.  Dan is perceived as disconnected from his customers -- the fans.  Lafemina was courted by Dan for years to work for him -- he gave him the task to him help reconnect to the fans and Dan's verdict is he's been doing it right all along and Brian is the one who doesn't get it.

 

And Dan/Bruce per usual aren't willing to explain that move or anything as for the direction of the franchise -- so its a big expletive directed at the fans. 

 

Sounds right and good nuggets (I didn't know Dan had been chasing him for a while). But for me it's less about what Dan would have gotten out of it and just more about what I thought this signaled vs. what it now seems like. 

 

Again, it all might have been foolish of me, but I really thought this guy was ultimately going to take over for Bruce as the guy running the show at the highest levels. I envisioned him slowly adding good people to the front office and eventually steadying the Redskins to a point where we were organized the way successful franchises are. 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Sounds right and good nuggets (I didn't know Dan had been chasing him for a while). But for me it's less about what Dan would have gotten out of it and just more about what I thought this signaled vs. what it now seems like. 

 

Again, it all might have been foolish of me, but I really thought this guy was ultimately going to take over for Bruce as the guy running the show at the highest levels. I envisioned him slowly adding good people to the front office and eventually steadying the Redskins to a point where we were organized the way successful franchises are. 

 

Yeah I had similar hopes.  Heard multiple people say including today Dan chased Lafemina for years and finally got him.  That adds to the irony.

 

I might have the oddest position on this thread though.  For me I think things are so off the rails and so bad that riding this through the 2019 season would finally signal the end of this nonsense.   The Dan version of the nonsense is a constant but at least the Bruce part gone.   So part of me doesn't mind the dysfunction picking up steam to epic levels for that reason.

 

You got firebruce trending nationally on twitter and people flooding Redskins Park with calls.  All a good thing.

 

Even when I was debating with some of the pro FO people in the off season in the back of my mind I kept thinking there is some stuff going right in the mix of what's going wrong that Bruce might use to survive that season.  I don't feel that way anymore.  This team IMO is looking like the Titanic headed straight to the iceberg with Dan/Bruce saying let it ride.    I often think the crash is needed for the change.  

 

In some ways the crash has happened in the stands-fans-TV ratings and off field nonsense.  But there was still enough hope about the team winning where Dan wouldn't see it as hopeless and Bruce could sell them that narrative. 

 

For Dan to make a change typically you need it all happening at once including the team tanking -- 2009, 2013.  2018 wasn't that.  I think 2019 likely will be. 

 

And trust me I get those that say remove Bruce fine but Dan remains so problems persist.  True.  But my one hope is his right hand man is no longer just as much a douche and incompetent as he is -- and I think Schaffer and Kyle fit that profile of perhaps bringing out a better side out of Dan.  Supposedly Gibbs helped bring out a better side of Dan but who knows.   I am probably delusional but its the one thing am hanging on to that makes me sane as a fan. 🙄

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For Dan to make a change typically you need it all happening at once including the team tanking -- 2009, 2013.  2018 wasn't that.  I think 2019 likely will be. 

 

And trust me I get those that get remove Bruce fine but Dan remains.  True.  But my one hope is his right hand man is no longer just as much a douche and incompetent as he is -- and I think Schaffer and Kyle fit that profile.  I am probably delusional but its the one thing am hanging on to that makes me sane as a fan. 🙄

 

I think/hope you are right. Still though, it would have been nice to have guys like Lafemina onboard when and if Allen is fired. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Again, it all might have been foolish of me, but I really thought this guy was ultimately going to take over for Bruce as the guy running the show at the highest levels. I envisioned him slowly adding good people to the front office and eventually steadying the Redskins to a point where we were organized the way successful franchises are. 

I think it’s safe to say that he had come to the conclusion that changes need to be made in order to do all that and that wasn’t Dan’s vision.  I actually have to wonder why Dan would go out of his way to court and hire this guy only to fire him when met with the answers.  If he thought that what he was doing was good all along, why was he looking for someone to fix things?  I mentioned this earlier but it’s like the restaurant owners that write letters to the restaurant takeover shows for help with their failing business.  Then they actually get what they wanted, and seem shocked when the celebrity chef shows up and explains to them why their business is failing.  They are resistant to the changes presented.  They roll with it for a bit but typically always revert back to what they know and shortly end up out of business.  The only sad part for us is the Redskins will never go out of business, no matter how poorly it’s ran.

[Wildbunny]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

You think that would be worth it to do it in French????

[Skinsinparadise]

106.7 now doubling down that Lafemina was going to quit but Dan-Bruce got wind and wanted to beat him to the punch.

[A Skinhead in Saints Land]

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Vinny?  Zorn?  Spurrier?

 

 

Whomever Chick is eluding to I truly feel sorry for them.  I wonder if they know they are getting hired on to be the 2019 scapegoat, but the again for the right price, I would be a scapegoat too.

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I think it’s safe to say that he had come to the conclusion that changes need to be made in order to do all that and that wasn’t Dan’s vision.  I actually have to wonder why Dan would go out of his way to court and hire this guy only to fire him when met with the answers.  If he thought that what he was doing was good all along, why was he looking for someone to fix things?  I mentioned this earlier but it’s like the restaurant owners that write letters to the restaurant takeover shows for help with their failing business.  Then they actually get what they wanted, and seem shocked when the celebrity chef shows up and explains to them why their business is failing.  They are resistant to the changes presented.  They roll with it for a bit but typically always revert back to what they know and shortly end up out of business.  The only sad part for us is the Redskins will never go out of business, no matter how poorly it’s ran.

 

Exactly!!

 

Me: "Will you review my document and let me know if you have any suggestions?"

You: "I would update the introduction sentence"

Me: "How DARE you! Get the Hell out!!"

 

????????

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

You think that would be worth it to do it in French????

 

Renvoyer Bruce Allen?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Vinny?  Zorn?  Spurrier?

 

 

 

 

The only "familiar" name that would give me any hope would be Joe Gibbs - not to coach or GM, but to run the entire thing. I believe we'd have been more successful during Gibbs 2.0 if he was in that role vs. coaching on the field. In fact, my revisionist history would have had him running the organization, Gregg Williams coaching, and Al Saunders as the OC for 4-5 years. 

 

Outside of that being the news, I don't think it'll matter. If Casserly or someone comes in as the GM working under Allen I won't expect any changes. And that's even ignoring the fact that I don't think Charley Casserly is any good. 

[Skinsinparadise]