The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[KDawg]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

B.  the dysfunctional garbage that envelopes the team is a big part why this team IMO isn't going 11-5 with him at the helm.

 

 

 

Culture. It's all about culture. And our culture here is abysmal. I agree 1000% with this statement. Until things are changed on a large scale, the culture will hold this team back. We have so many former players coming out and making comments, even someone like Duke Ihenacho on twitter. He said the difference from Denver to the Skins was big time. And so many others make similar comments. 

 

A lot of times we chalk it up to "sour grapes" but there are enough sour grapes around to make lake of wine... 

 

People wonder why teams like New England, Pittsburgh, Philly recently, are usually pretty good and why teams like the Skins, Browns, Lions, etc. have been fairly poor in recent history. Through coaching changes (in some cases), through front office reshuffles, etc. The answer is very, very simple. 

 

Culture.

 

This team has a culture that is akin to a toxic wasteland. Players being mad at fans. Players being mad at coaches. Poor roster management/construction. And it has spilled over to the fans. We're part of the problem, too. Not as much as some people would like to believe us to be, because to be honest, if you want the fans to support you make it look like you're trying.

 

Our "issue" (I don't think it's really an issue) is we've been here and done this many times. It's the 300th re-run of a sitcom on syndicated TV. It's lost it's luster. 

 

But our negativity towards everything doesn't help.

 

The way you fix this, all of it, is to inject optimism into the organization. And to do that you need to start at the top. 

 

Period.

 

You want our unwavering support? Fix the problem. Our culture sucks and it starts with the two shot callers: Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen. You want the coaches to buy in? Fix the two shot callers. You want the players to buy into the coaches? Fix the shot callers. You want the fans to support the players and the players to support the fans? Fix the two shot callers. It IS that simple.

 

But it's not going to happen. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, wunderhill said:

six flags is calling

Johnny Rockets is on hold...

[justice98]

2 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

For me personally, it's not that I care too much about marketing, but it felt like this Lafemina guy might be a sign of a new direction. Maybe it was stupid of me to think that, but when we brought in a well-respected guy who had worked for the NFL, I felt like maybe we were beginning to seed the organization with vetted, quality people. I even went so far to think that maybe Lafemina could help revamp the entire team (non-football and football operations) over time. I viewed him as a cornerstone and maybe step 1 of a multi-step process. Also, if he's well-respected and competent, I hoped that he'd help open doors to higher-quality folks to join the organization. 

 

In less than a year, we are back to the blind leading the blind and our only hope for a bubble-up 9 or 10 win season is for all the breaks to go our way one year. 

 

A well-respected guy that got shown the door? Where have we seen that before around here?  It's the same story, different day, just change the names around.  

 

They often have well respected people. They just treat them like crap and run them off.  Lafemina and crew are just another in a long line.  Nothing we haven't seen several times.  Schottenheimer, McCloughan, probably a host of good front office people.  It literally is the same thing every time.  Optimism followed by inevitable letdown.  We keep falling for the banana in the tailpipe. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Our "issue" (I don't think it's really an issue) is we've been here and done this many times. It's the 300th re-run of a sitcom on syndicated TV. It's lost it's luster. 

 

But our negativity towards everything doesn't help.

 

This is a very interesting point. 

 

I'm not making an excuse for the organization because they created the problem AND they should be smart enough to know that you don't base your business decisions off of things like this...BUT...you have to wonder how much the Redskins make short-term/quick-fix type decisions BECAUSE the fan base is restless and negative. Again, we have every right to be, but I wonder if that contributes to Snyder thinking he should use a band-aid rather than peroxide. 

[drowland]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

more 106.7 stuff, Grant Paulsen from asking around.

 

Dan Snyder -- is likely not on social media or listens to talk radio.  He's old school and likes to read the paper so he mostly knows the WP and just thinks they are unfair so he brushes them off.

 

Bruce Allen -- he talked about this before but not today -- he does pay attention to talk radio and things that are said about him

 

It all gives the impression that Dan might not know the levels of despair and dislike for Bruce.    He has a sense of it likely from the WP but not the full intensity of it so he thinks he can turn it around.   

 

My point is Dan has I think physically has to see disgust to notice it.  Sort of like the Lion fans with fire Matt Millan signs back in the day.  And the 2009 season with the fire Vinny signs.

 

The more I digest it the minority owners are the main hope -- supposedly they pressured Dan to get rid of Vinny so maybe they are aware this time, too. 

 

 

Wait, wouldn't the PR department keep track of what's trending on social media?  Dan shouldn't have use it to know what fans are saying.  Someone should be informing him of what's being said.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

7 minutes ago, drowland said:

 

Wait, wouldn't the PR department keep track of what's trending on social media?  Dan shouldn't have use it to know what fans are saying.  Someone should be informing him of what's being said.  

 

Yep...I find Grant's premise very unlikely. It's 2018...it's virtually impossible to be that disconnected from the facts. It's nice to picture a spoiled, rich Snyder sitting with his feet up and leafing through the paper oblivious to the opinion of the masses on the other side of the moat, but I think that's letting him off the hook way too much. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

This is a very interesting point. 

 

I'm not making an excuse for the organization because they created the problem AND they should be smart enough to know that you don't base your business decisions off of things like this...BUT...you have to wonder how much the Redskins make short-term/quick-fix type decisions BECAUSE the fan base is restless and negative. Again, we have every right to be, but I wonder if that contributes to Snyder thinking he should use a band-aid rather than peroxide. 

Dan has been making short-term/quick fix decisions and/or employing folks who do the same long before the fanbase reached apathy though.  At one point in time, the fan base by and large, me included, bought the quick fix decisions.  That time has passed, and yet here we are.

 

I cannot for a second pin any blame on the fanbase, even inadvertently.  Fans are innocent bystanders that Dan should feel so lucky to even garner any level of emotion from at this point.  The fans are just starting to mirror the ugliness that is the organization they root for.

[justice98]

7 minutes ago, drowland said:

 

Wait, wouldn't the PR department keep track of what's trending on social media?  Dan shouldn't have use it to know what fans are saying.  Someone should be informing him of what's being said.  

 

Social media sentiment  probably gets filtered to Dan through Bruce.  

 

By the same token, I cant believe Snyder is totally oblivious.  He's at the games, he see it's with his own eyes, people probably tell him stuff anecdotally.  He has to know what people are saying. He's a young guy still, by owner standards, he's not THAT out of the loop on what the word on the street is.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 5:52 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

Got no insider information obviously so just going purely on gossip from beat guys especially Finlay

 

Just about slam dunk Jay is back

Better than 50-50 chance Manusky is fired

Almost slam dunk Bruce is back initially but that might change in the Spring or after the draft depending on circumstances.

 

I think the best shot for Bruce to go is a really pathetic showing both as for attendance and how the team plays next Sunday

 

 

 

Could the 12 fans who show up Sunday, all stand under Dan's box and chant "Fire Bruce NOW!!"

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Could the 12 fans who show up Sunday, all stand under Dan's box and chant "Fire Bruce NOW!!"

Where is Snyders box, btw?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Dan has been making short-term/quick fix decisions and/or employing folks who do the same long before the fanbase reached apathy though.  At one point in time, the fan base by and large, me included, bought the quick fix decisions.  That time has passed, and yet here we are.

 

I cannot for a second pin any blame on the fanbase, even inadvertently.  Fans are innocent bystanders that Dan should feel so lucky to even garner any level of emotion from at this point.  The fans are just starting to mirror the ugliness that is the organization they root for.

 

I didn't mean to assign blame. I meant to wonder out loud if fan opinion drives their decisions. The two aren't necessarily the same thing. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Yep...I find Grant's premise very unlikely. It's 2018...it's virtually impossible to be that disconnected from the facts. It's nice to picture a spoiled, rich Snyder sitting with his feet up and leafing from the paper oblivious to the opinion of the masses on the other side of the moat, but I think that's letting him off the hook way too much. 

I’m sure this stuff gets reported back to Dan.  I’d bet everything I have that LaFemina reported to Dan what he was hearing from the fanbase.  He just got fired, so yeah.

Just now, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I didn't mean to assign blame. I meant to wonder out loud if fan opinion drives their decisions. The two aren't necessarily the same thing. 

Oh I know, it was more to someone else’s point that fans have hand in the poor culture here.  The poor culture bred the poor fans, it’s kind of like blaming the kid instead of the awful environment the parents raise the children in.

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I cannot for a second pin any blame on the fanbase, even inadvertently.  Fans are innocent bystanders that Dan should feel so lucky to even garner any level of emotion from at this point.  The fans are just starting to mirror the ugliness that is the organization they root for.

 

I disagree but not outright. We are a part of the problem. But we're not what needs to be fixed.

 

Fans create a culture -- an atmosphere. This fanbase has dragged through the mud. We should be upset. We should be ornery. We should be frustrated. We should boo.

 

But that does effect the players. Many of whom haven't been here long enough to feel our pain. Why aren't they here? Because they get out as fast as their feet will carry them. Players hear the home crowd boos. And that will effect morale. What people don't always seem to connect is that some of these players are getting booed when really, none of this is on their shoulders.

 

The ultimate fault rests on the shoulders of one man in particular, and another in recent history. But you can't absolve any part of the problem from their own responsibility. But you also, to agree with your point, can't blame the victims for reacting the way that they do. 

 

Even players talking trash about fans... It's tough to blame them. They came in to this dumpster fire and didn't expect this. They really haven't been pummeled by the Redskins so much that apathy has set in. So when they get booed they naturally think, "wtf?" (having said that, shut up about it and carry on and don't go to social media/media with every little concern you have.)

 

But again, what is being lost is that the current iteration of the team is a symptom of the true disease. The fans reactions? Symptom. The players' reactions? Symptom. Hell, even coaching reactions are a symptom. 

 

The franchise needs treatment if they want things to change. Band-aids aren't helping. Neither are antibiotics.

 

Time to go in with a sharp knife and remove it.

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Oh I know, it was more to someone else’s point that fans have hand in the poor culture here.  The poor culture bred the poor fans, it’s kind of like blaming the kid instead of the awful environment the parents raise the children in.

 

I agree...but I still wonder if it the fan negativity plays into it.

 

If I'm starving in an alley somewhere and you see the bad spot I'm in, you could give me the last two bites of your sandwich because it's better than nothing (maybe that's the Alex Smith trade) or you can take me to the grocery store and help me stock up on the essentials to eat for the next 3 months (rebuilding the organization to be a perennial contender).

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@KDawg I do agree that everything is symptomatic.  I really don't blame the players for not liking the fans either.  I understand why both the players, fans and most likely coaches are miserable here.  It all ties back to the culture or lack thereof.

 

For anyone that's ever worked in a toxic environment, where you have to celebrate small wins, because big wins just aren't possible, I'm sure they can relate.  That stands for any industry, professional football included.

[Springfield]

Build a consistent winner with an exciting offense and the fans will come right back.  The RG3 season is the most fun I think I’ve ever had as a fan.

 

Its all moot because the owner sucks a bag of dicks.

[Skinsinparadise]

Listened to Grant and Hoffman for awhile, interesting stuff.  Cliff notes version for now because I have to run.  Some points based on people they talked to, most of this via Grant:

 

Grant heard from someone its not 100% slam dunk that Bruce is staying

 

Bruce is worse in that building than Dan.  

 

Bruce is power hungry and doesn't like anyone encroaching on his turf -- Bruce felt Lafemina was doing just that

 

Dan's problem is he's drinking buddies with Bruce and always gets Bruce's spin about everything

 

Reuben Foster signing in one fell swoop killed the PR work and accomplishments that Lefemina and crowd thought they were accomplishing -- that signing bothered a lot of ticket holders- people that buy stadium boxes, etc.  It cause major damage to their efforts to repair the team image among other things

 

Dan is mega socially awkward.  He's not in recent years mean to employees so much but that he's impatient as heck -- wants immediate results

 

Bruce/Dan are mostly insulated from fan views of them and the team -- that's Hoffman's take.

 

The most mixed message from beat reporters is how attuned or not attuned Dan is to fan sentiment with most saying he isn't that attuned to it.

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listened to Grant and Hoffman for awhile, interesting stuff.  Cliff notes version for now because I have to run.  Some points based on people they talked to, most of this via Grant:

 

Grant heard from someone its not 100% slam dunk that Bruce is staying

 

Bruce is worse in that building than Dan.  

 

Bruce is power hungry and doesn't like anyone encroaching on his turf -- Bruce felt Lafemina was doing just that

 

Dan's problem is he's drinking buddies with Bruce and always gets Bruce's spin about everything

 

Reuben Foster signing in one fell swoop killed the PR work and accomplishments that Lefemina and crowd thought they were accomplishing -- that signing bothered a lot of ticket holders- people that buy stadium boxes, etc.  It cause major damage to their efforts to repair the team image among other things

 

Dan is mega socially awkward.  He's not in recent years mean to employees so much but that he's impatient as heck -- wants immediate results

 

Bruce/Dan are mostly insulated from fan views of them and the team -- that's Hoffman's take.

 

The most mixed message from beat reporters is how attuned or not attuned Dan is to fan sentiment with most saying he isn't that attuned to it.

 

 

 

Thank you!

 

The nugget out of there that gives me a little bit of hope is the Bruce may not be safe. 

 

But, I question Hoffman on that because if that were the case, Dan would have to be an idiot to let him go because of Bruce. Then again, maybe Lafemina was going to leave either way. 

 

The only way I see this getting better in the relative short-term is if a brand new guy replaces Bruce and put in charge of everything. Otherwise, it's just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Bruce-tanic.  

[Andre The Giant]

3 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

A couple points that might make a "return" more attractive to people...

 

1) Someone with a connection to Snyder might be the only remaining category of person who would take on the job 

2) Someone Snyder knows might again be the final type of person who could drive change - he won't listen to an "outsider" 

 

So as much as I'd roll my eyes over someone coming BACK to the organization, it could be the best hope we have (assuming he's competent) to see something change. 

 

Wouldn’t surprise me if Snyder was considering Louis Riddick to take over personnel. 

 

- Former Skins employee under Vinnie, which fits the return definition. 

 

- He could probably work with the existing Front Office Team (Eric, Doug, etc...)

 

- Would likely be able to work with Jay. 

 

- Snyder apparently liked Mayock last year (also on tv). 

 

- Theisman had a positive tweet about Riddick a couple weeks ago. 

[Skinsinparadise]

38 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Thank you!

 

The nugget out of there that gives me a little bit of hope is the Bruce may not be safe. 

 

But, I question Hoffman on that because if that were the case, Dan would have to be an idiot to let him go because of Bruce. Then again, maybe Lafemina was going to leave either way. 

 

The only way I see this getting better in the relative short-term is if a brand new guy replaces Bruce and put in charge of everything. Otherwise, it's just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Bruce-tanic.  

 

It was Grant not Hoffman on the Bruce isn't 100% back.  Grant said he got into a conversation with a source from within the FO and Grant said this means 100% Bruce is back and the person responded with something to the effect of maybe so but its not 100% he's back.

 

That's the only glimmer of optimism I've gotten on that front thus far.

[Skinsinparadise]

Finlay, the 2nd guy saying that being blown out this Sunday might still instigate some change from Dan.    Who would think this game even matters but according to some it might if they are blown out.

[Reaper Skins]

Chick's tweet about someone "returning" to the Skins to me means one thing.

 

Todd Bowles as a new DC.

 

Gives the appearance that they are trying to get better without having to actually change anyone at the top.

 

Plays on fan nostalgia one more time and lets Dan sell the "importance of the glory years" culture again.  Bowles won't make waves because he'll be grateful for the rebound job.

 

Fans will go "meh" and Dan and Bruce will be mystified why this latest "token effort" didn't fix everything

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Reaper Skins said:

Chick's tweet about someone "returning" to the Skins to me means one thing.

 

Todd Bowles as a new DC.

 

Gives the appearance that they are trying to get better without having to actually change anyone at the top.

 

Plays on fan nostalgia one more time and let's Dan sell the "importance of the glory years" culture again.  Bowles won't make waves because he'll be grateful for the rebound job.

 

Fans will go "meh" and Dan and Bruce will be mystified why this latest "token effort" doesn't fix everything

 

Could be.  Seems like a lot of tea leaves that if there is any red meat as to change it would be D coordinator -- Bowles would be the obvious target -- big name and nostalgia all wrapped up in one, I could see Dan loving it.

[drowland]

11 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said:

Chick's tweet about someone "returning" to the Skins to me means one thing.

 

Todd Bowles as a new DC.

 

Gives the appearance that they are trying to get better without having to actually change anyone at the top.

 

Plays on fan nostalgia one more time and lets Dan sell the "importance of the glory years" culture again.  Bowles won't make waves because he'll be grateful for the rebound job.

 

Fans will go "meh" and Dan and Bruce will be mystified why this latest "token effort" didn't fix everything

 

Bowles is a well respected defensive coach in this league and will have no problems finding a DC gig so let's not make it like Dan will have to throw him a lifeline.  If anything the Skins will have to jump on him immediately with an offer before he comes to his senses.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Now Loverro doubling down that his sources tell him that Bruce isn't necessarily safe.  

 

Loverro on air said a key flash point in the Lafemina-Bruce relationship was the Foster signing. Lafemina went to him and Dan about the outcry from major sponsors-box owners who were put off by the signing and Bruce/Dan didn't like hearing it.   That was the last straw where things went south from that point.

 

Going back to Hoffman:  Bruce didn't like earlier that season Lafemina talked to Josh Norman after he called out his fans and worked out a plan with him to make up for it -- with Norman passing out tickets for fans.

 

Bruce thought Lafemina was encroaching on his territory by talking to Norman and was upset about it. 

 

I'll say this listening to lots of inside stuff from Russell, Hoffman, Finlay, Loverro, Paulsen, Keim, Jones over the last 2 days.  My impressions:

 

Dan is even stranger and more socially awkward than I thought he was. And stupid.

 

Bruce is not a stooge of Dan.  He's a power hungry -- Machiavellian cut throat dude.  He's put his own brand on the team's dysfunction and he's more of the batman of it behind the scenes not the robin.

 

Both Grant and Russell flat out said from what they heard Bruce is a much bigger problem than Dan and its not at all because Bruce is just carrying out Dan's orders -- Bruce is his own man and runs the ship much more so than Dan.  Dan gives him that leeway.

 

I've been one of the critics of the FO who's been claiming Bruce is more than just a stooge of Dan.  I know there is another group here that say Bruce is just carrying his orders.  And by no means my position is a defense of Dan -- I think the dude is a train wreck-worst owner in the NFL.  But listening to all these narratives on a scale of 0-100 I am at a 0 that Bruce is just a stooge of Dan.    Bruce to me is his own version of trouble and in a big way.