Nazis showing up at places uninvited.

[FanboyOf91]

Dude can't stop himself. #ETTD

[Dan T.]

14 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

The video of the guy embarrassing them with a tuba is nice and all, but what preparations are in place when those nazis rip the tuba from your hands, surround you, and beat you with it? We can't let our aversion to brutality, cause us to neglect in preparing for a proper response.
 

 

That's when you call in the trumpet players.  Those ****ers are ruthless.

 

(I appreciate your post.  I don't know whether local law enforcement gave as much forethought in planning for the event as you did.)

Edited August 15, 2017 by Dan T.

[zoony]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

You can't deal with irrational people in a rational manner. These hateful racist scumbags are the definition of irrational(because hating someone for the color of their skin is literally the dumbest thing ever).

 

I agree with those who said make it hurt to join. Maybe not physically,  but I love what people are doing revealing their IDs causing them to lose jobs and gain nationwide humiliation. Having this way of thinking in 2017 should make you a social pariah, an exile.

 

This is by far the best strategy.  ****roaches scatter when you turn the lights on!  They have been emboldened by the power of anonymous online forums and social media.  Theyve said so thems3lves

[Llevron]

Just now, zoony said:

 

This is by far the best strategy.  ****roaches scatter when you turn the lights on!  They have been emboldened by the power of anonymous online forums and social media.  Theyve said so thems3lves

 

Agree. I just wish we could be sure before me screw the wrong dudes life up. 

[Predicto]

I'm not advocating violence, but the "ignoring them and they will go away" strategy is a huge mistake.

 

The reason you confront this stuff head on, over and over, is to bring the issue out into the open and force millions of people in the middle (or just not paying attention) to take sides.  To force them to start to feel the uncomfortable truth about what lies at the core of Trump's appeal.  Who cares if the actual neo-Nazis recruit a handful of additional members?   That's not the real concern.  

 

Larry had it right.  The problem we face is not an ever growing army of Nazis taking over the country.  It is the fact that a large part of the country has been manipulated into being sympathetic to many of the underlying emotions and ideas that motivate these turds. Fox News viewers like your uncle Fred do not think of themselves as Nazis or even racists, but they bitterly resent immigrants, and hate liberals, and feel like white people are being oppressed, and all the rest.  

 

Well, neo-nazis are the end game of that point of view.  The entire country should have their noses rubbed in the fact that Richard Spencer advocates 95% of the same things as Steve Bannon does, as Sean Hannity does, as Steve King does, as Donald Trump does.  Make them have to think about it, and have to talk about it with people, and in the process, millions will find it uncomfortable to learn that they share so many views with actual Nazis.   They need to see these neo-Nazis with clubs waving Dixie flags and wearing their MAGA hats.  You need to make as many as possible have have to choose if they want to be associated with that.    

 

What turned the tide for the civil rights movement in the early 1960s was not ignoring the problems, but confronting the problems.  It was the TV coverage of marchers being set upon with attack dogs and fire hoses that finally shook middle America out of its stupor.  Not completely, not permanently, but there was a significant shift nonetheless.     

 

The Right has been riding an emotional wave of cultural backlash for years.  Events like this one are how the wave can start to turn back the other way.          

Edited August 15, 2017 by Predicto

[Destino]

50 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

It's kind of funny that the same crowd that asks "where are the moderate Muslims stopping this????" is now playing the "this is a minority in the country, plz ignore" card. 

 

How opinions change when people with your shared identity do terrible things. 

 

We should demand Muslims actually physically assault extremists or else accuse them of doing nothing?  That still sound reasonable to you?  It sounds bat**** insane to me. 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Predicto said:

What turned the tide for the civil rights movement in the early 1960s was not ignoring the problems, but confronting the problems.  It was the TV coverage of marchers being set upon with attack dogs and fire hoses that finally shook middle America out of its stupor.  Not completely, not permanently, but there was a significant shift nonetheless.             

 

Do you think peaceful protestors being set upon by racist police, attack dogs, and fire hoses is the same as AntiFA showing up armed and fighting similarly armed Nazis?  I see sizeable differences between the two scenarios, and I'm not equating AntiFa with Nazis.  The Nazi are a million times worse, but the optics of two armed gangs having a go at each other simply isn't the same.  The message is entirely different.

 

Now if peaceful protestors were to be suddenly attacked by Nazis, that works.  We're seeing that out of Charlottesville because of the terrorist attack.  That's precisely the form it took and the story that followed writes itself.  A group of peaceful protesters were doing their thing when a terrorists in a car decided to try to run them down.  His chosen method even fits in wonderfully with the wave of terrorist attacks we've seen recently in Europe.  Without that car running into people, the narrative would be much different.  You could tell the right wing media was ready with their "many sides" nonsense.  Including the president.  

 

[No Excuses]

Antifa is going to be at every alt-right rally from here on out. Asking for peaceful resistance to this is really wishful thanking and an excercise in futility. 

 

Gone are the days of neo-Nazis and white supremecasists receiving peaceful resistance.

[thebluefood]

5 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

Antifa is going to be at every alt-right rally from here on out. Asking for peaceful resistance to this is really wishful thanking and an excercise in futility. 

 

Gone are the days of neo-Nazis and white supremecasists receiving peaceful resistance.

And as I've been trying to say (though it seems few people in this discussion wish to admit things happened before the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s) - Anti-Fascist tactics and organizations have a much longer and more effective history than the watered-down memories folks seem to have from a half-century ago. 

 

Without even mentioning the obvious - Mussolini and the Vichy didn't topple only by sit-ins and witty articles in the Saturday Evening Post. Despite having little support and poor organization, the CNT-FAI militias gave Franco and his black shirts a run for their money and as I've said time and time again, civilian anti-fascists probably played the biggest role in keeping it off the streets in the UK. 

[LadySkinsFan]

Our First Amendment

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

 

The key words are in bold.

 

People who openly carry arms, shields, other weapons are not there to be peaceable. They are there to foment violence, period.

 

I've said it before, the municipalities can refuse to grant permits to people that openly and concealed carry of any kind of weapons. 

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by LadySkinsFan

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

26 minutes ago, Destino said:

 

We should demand Muslims actually physically assault extremists or else accuse them of doing nothing?  That still sound reasonable to you?  It sounds bat**** insane to me. 

 

 

 

Do you think peaceful protestors being set upon by racist police, attack dogs, and fire hoses is the same as AntiFA showing up armed and fighting similarly armed Nazis?  I see sizeable differences between the two scenarios, and I'm not equating AntiFa with Nazis.  The Nazi are a million times worse, but the optics of two armed gangs having a go at each other simply isn't the same.  The message is entirely different.

 

Now if peaceful protestors were to be suddenly attacked by Nazis, that works.  We're seeing that out of Charlottesville because of the terrorist attack.  That's precisely the form it took and the story that followed writes itself.  A group of peaceful protesters were doing their thing when a terrorists in a car decided to try to run them down.  His chosen method even fits in wonderfully with the wave of terrorist attacks we've seen recently in Europe.  Without that car running into people, the narrative would be much different.  You could tell the right wing media was ready with their "many sides" nonsense.  Including the president.  

 

 

At the end of the day, Antifa doesn't have the visual dynamics of the neo-Nazi groups. The image is always going to be neo-Nazis punching people of color.

 

Plus, I don't think 90 percent of the population knows what the hell Antifa is. Are they ACORN? Weren't we supposed to hate ACORN for some reason?

[drowland]

38 minutes ago, Predicto said:

I'm not advocating violence, but the "ignoring them and they will go away" strategy is a huge mistake.

 

The reason you confront this stuff head on, over and over, is to bring the issue out into the open and force millions of people in the middle (or just not paying attention) to take sides.  To force them to start to feel the uncomfortable truth about what lies at the core of Trump's appeal.  Who cares if the actual neo-Nazis recruit a handful of additional members?   That's not the real concern.  

 

Larry had it right.  The problem we face is not an ever growing army of Nazis taking over the country.  It is the fact that a large part of the country has been manipulated into being sympathetic to many of the underlying emotions and ideas that motivate these turds. Fox News viewers like your uncle Fred do not think of themselves as Nazis or even racists, but they bitterly resent immigrants, and hate liberals, and feel like white people are being oppressed, and all the rest.  

 

Well, neo-nazis are the end game of that point of view.  The entire country should have their noses rubbed in the fact that Richard Spencer advocates 95% of the same things as Steve Bannon does, as Sean Hannity does, as Steve King does, as Donald Trump does.  Make them have to think about it, and have to talk about it with people, and in the process, millions will find it uncomfortable to learn that they share so many views with actual Nazis.   They need to see these neo-Nazis with clubs waving Dixie flags and wearing their MAGA hats.  You need to make as many as possible have have to choose if they want to be associated with that.    

 

What turned the tide for the civil rights movement in the early 1960s was not ignoring the problems, but confronting the problems.  It was the TV coverage of marchers being set upon with attack dogs and fire hoses that finally shook middle America out of its stupor.  Not completely, not permanently, but there was a significant shift nonetheless.     

 

The Right has been riding an emotional wave of cultural backlash for years.  Events like this one are how the wave can start to turn back the other way.          

 

I just hope people are careful with how they confront the alt-right.  With the KKK and neo-nazis their beliefs and purpose are black and white.  With some of these other groups it seems a lot them join in not because they hate minorities, non-christians or gays...they join simply because they hate liberals.  They're trolls like Milo Yiannopoulos who get off on getting a rise out of people.  That's their only purpose.  They show up at these things just to get in a fight with someone and bring out the worst out in their opposition.  Those are the people who should be ignored.  Unfortunately it's hard to tell.   

[visionary]

 

[SoulSkin]

Good news Jews! (anyone starting a Klezmer band is welcome to that) You're leading Muslims, feminists, journalists, democrats, black people, and Mexicans in the subhumanity rankings! That is a strong showing out of the gate. Congrats!

 

 

[thebluefood]

47 minutes ago, SoulSkin said:

Good news Jews! (anyone starting a Klezmer band is welcome to that) You're leading Muslims, feminists, journalists, democrats, black people, and Mexicans in the subhumanity rankings! That is a strong showing out of the gate. Congrats!

 

 

 

Mazel Tov, my Jewish brothers and sister! I knew you still had it in you to piss fascists off just for existing! Well done! 

 

(Also that Klezmer band quip made me chortle) 

[thebluefood]

I'm sorry but this is bugging me because while my people have been feeling the brunt of western imperialism and racial oppression for centuries, antisemitism is one of the most bewildering things humanity has ever cooked up. Why is it always Jewish People they go after? Why them? Every reason I've ever heard can be traced back to bad theology and a laughably poor understanding of world history (which only serves as a pretense for a deeper seeded prejudice that's based God only knows where).

 

Why them?! Why won't people leave Jews alone?!

[NoCalMike]

Let's be real about this too.  Most of these so-called "Nazi's" are young angry misguided youth who's brains have been filled with poison, playing dress up.  Sure, they are racists and are espousing awful rhetoric, but they aren't any kind of actual soldiers and likely would want no part of what actual Nazi soliders had to do during WW2.   It's almost a "cultural appropriation" of Nazi uniforms if you will. 

 

 

[Llevron]

6 minutes ago, thebluefood said:

Why them?! Why won't people leave Jews alone?!

 

Swear to goodness I was just having this conversation. I think it could be a topic of its own but I think the reasons can be based in religion and the image of wealth (be it real or symbolic). Basically God and jealousy. But thats me shooting from the hip. I haven't looked into it much myself. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

3 hours ago, zoony said:

 

Jesus, you are one negative depressing dude.  Didnt you inherit a really nice business from your dad?  That pretty much puts you in the top .1 percent of earners in the wealthiest country in the history of the world.  Thats a pretty awesome place to be, wish we could all be so lucky.

 

None of this is true.  

 

Quit picking on me.

[The Evil Genius]

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Swear to goodness I was just having this conversation. I think it could be a topic of its own but I think the reasons can be based in religion and the image of wealth (be it real or symbolic). Basically God and jealousy. But thats me shooting from the hip. I haven't looked into it much myself. 

 

11 minutes ago, thebluefood said:

I'm sorry but this is bugging me because while my people have been feeling the brunt of western imperialism and racial oppression for centuries, antisemitism is one of the most bewildering things humanity has ever cooked up. Why is it always Jewish People they go after? Why them? Every reason I've ever heard can be traced back to bad theology and a laughably poor understanding of world history (which only serves as a pretense for a deeper seeded prejudice that's based God only knows where).

 

Why them?! Why won't people leave Jews alone?!

 

Money and jealousy, is my take.  My dads side of the family is Jewish. Oddly enough, not from an urban area, but quite the opposite.  Jewish farmers.  

 

Anyway, that's how it's been explained to me, in summation.  Not sure about anti-antisemitism before Hitler, but IIRC he targeted the Jews because they had a big presence in the banking system in Germany back then and Hitler wanted control of it.  So the best thing he could do was try to get rid of them, quite literally.  He basically blamed them for all of the socio-economic issues that 1930s Germany was facing.

[NoCalMike]

It's also getting tiresome that any conversation with the right about condemnation of white nationalists/Nazis/racists etc etc.....always leads to them throwing out "well yeah but BLM....."  as if BLM is the same thing on the other side.  I keep hearing it casually thrown in and lumped in.   It's ridiculous. 

[zoony]

9 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

None of this is true.  

 

Quit picking on me.

 

My bad, i thought you were super rich

 

 

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, NoCalMike said:

It's also getting tiresome that any conversation with the right about condemnation of white nationalists/Nazis/racists etc etc.....always leads to them throwing out "well yeah but BLM....."  as if BLM is the same thing on the other side.  I keep hearing it casually thrown in and lumped in.   It's ridiculous. 

 

It is ridiculous but understand, as I have recently come to, that because of BLMs loose leadership, it is very easy for their entire movement to be attributed to some fringe beliefs. Case in point, some of the words one of the founders uses to describe white people are just ridiculous. And because she helped to found the movement, and because they have no real leadership to fall back on, it gives credence to those who want to point to the things she says as the things they say. 

 

And it bothers me deeply to have to admit that to myself. Let alone to others. But fair is fair and its not a good look. 

 

Though by no means are they the same. But, yea. Its not a good look. Its very disappointing to me. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

6 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

My bad, i thought you were super rich

 

 

 

Nope.  I chill in Moms basement and crush Hot Pockets.

[NoCalMike]

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

It is ridiculous but understand, as I have recently come to, that because of BLMs loose leadership, it is very easy for their entire movement to be attributed to some fringe beliefs. Case in point, some of the words one of the founders uses to describe white people are just ridiculous. And because she helped to found the movement, and because they have no real leadership to fall back on, it gives credence to those who want to point to the things she says as the things they say. 

 

And it bothers me deeply to have to admit that to myself. Let alone to others. But fair is fair and its not a good look. 

 

Though by no means are they the same. But, yea. Its not a good look. Its very disappointing to me. 

 

I have no problem vilifying statements of individuals, even within movements that I overall agree with, I totally get the point you are making, but I also feel it is a case of media outlets taking advantage of lazy people who won't even research anything further than what Hannity or Tucker or that clown Jesse Waters has to say on an issue. It's unfortunate, but as they say, perception is more important than reality.