Nazis showing up at places uninvited.

[LadySkinsFan]

7 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

Funny story...last week I walked past a woman in a full (and I mean FULL, as in "just eye slits cut out for vision") burka in the store.  While I hadn't actually ever seen one and that close up, it still did not make me do a double-take, call police or even hurry to finish my shopping.    *She was in the health/beauty dept, so there's that.*  She's got her deal, I've got mine.

Just an anecdotal thing.

 

As one woman to another when I encounter a Muslim woman, I smile and engage with her. We women need to stick together. 

[thebluefood]

43 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

 

 

However, watching the videos, the counter-protestors really need to look in the mirror. I understand the anger and frustration in being discriminated against, but the clashes were violent. Further, I don't know how it could have been avoided other than just not being there. 

 

 

 

Tell ya what - when people are coming for you and yours and saying they want all y'all dead just for who you are who you live, then come back to me with this. 

 

And while you're doing that, go back to Cable Street in London in 1936 and talk to the anti-facists that lined up against Oswald Mosley and his blackshirts and tell them how they should just "be more peaceful" or "ignore them" while they tried to march on and intimidate a Jewish neighborhood. 

 

My life is on the line. My friends lives are on the line. If you think we're not going to fight these creeps "by any means necessary" then you got another thing coming.

Edited August 15, 2017 by thebluefood

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

But they are not dying on the vine, they have been simmering ever since the Civil War.

 

Either way, the attention they're getting now gives them more ammo to recruit.  This isn't any different than ISIS attracting people.  

[AJ*]

31 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Also, I'm on the side of non-engagement.  If a bunch of Nazis showed up in Charlottesville and nobody was there for them to fight/drive cars into, it would have been a one day thing.  "Hey, look at these dumb****s throwing up Nazi signs, what a bunch of unfortunate virgin losers."  Everyone would have had a shake of the head and a chuckle, that would have been it.  Now, everyone in the country is very focused on these people, which (1) gives them a voice to recruit more and (2) attention is exactly what they want; a lack of attention (from society, women, their parents, employers, etc) is what made them join this stupid club in the first place. 

 

I agree with your stance but there's also the flip-side of it as I'm sure the people of Charlottesville have pride in their town and wouldn't want people to confuse their silence with condoning this kind of hate-filled march. I'm sure it was an embarrassment for them just to have those kind of people walking through their streets and I can understand how hard it would be to sit on the sidelines and watch them pass through with no resistance.

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Either way, the attention they're getting now gives them more ammo to recruit.  This isn't any different than ISIS attracting people.  

 

Exactly its not any different than ISIS and they should be treated as such. You think they would let ISIS walk through the streets of DC? Not any ****ing chance in hell. It should be treated similarly. 

 

There is authority in this country. And depending on who you are, they will let you know who is in control and who isnt. They were NOT in control of this situation. Why is that? 

[Burgold]

4 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

 

What should have happened was the police and the city stopping this madness before it started. 

That puts me in a tough place because I do believe in free speech. Just because you're a ****, a racist, an antisemite or any other attrocity, you don't lose that right. They have the right to speak and protest.

 

Their speech should, however, be countered. It should be countered hopefully peacefully, but it should be countered and good people must remain vocal and vigilant. When it comes to the city and police, what you would hope is that they would have a sufficient deterrent force that nothing happens other than words.

[LadySkinsFan]

3 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Either way, the attention they're getting now gives them more ammo to recruit.  This isn't any different than ISIS attracting people.  

 

They've been recruiting like crazy over the internet for years. That's how come there were guys from Reno and all over there. They know who they all are. 

 

Unite the Right, trying to get them in one place, multiple gatherings all across the country, so they can conglomerate under one umbrella. 

[Bonez3]

Just a lot of violent rhetoric for a group of hundreds, literally. They pretty much aligned themselves with a minority, so 'all our lives are on the line'. And a caucasian girl was the supposed first victim. 

 

I'm not is saying turn a blind eye, but it seems that 'by any means necessary' for what was displayed by this group (dubbed the largest in 2 decades) seems like a sledgehammer for an ant.

 

You'll never burnout out all the fringe element. 

[SoulSkin]

On the flipside, they're also getting plenty of attention from decent people, now fully aware of that these emboldened hate groups are no longer afraid to come on out and show their faces, maybe in your town next. Might be a recruitment tool for the good guys too.Might also mean that more people will vote with their conscience in the future, not whatever lead to Nazi sympathizers in the White House

Edited August 15, 2017 by SoulSkin

[No Excuses]

11 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Either way, the attention they're getting now gives them more ammo to recruit.  This isn't any different than ISIS attracting people.  

 

They recruit online through reddit, 4chan and other social media platforms. 

 

Alt-right leaders have a huge social media presence. This isn't a fringe movement looking for recruitment through rallies.

 

I believe they are rallying after years of gathering online because they think they've grown large enough to demonstrate strength through numbers.

 

I keep coming back to the fact that a sympathizer of their movement won half the GOP vote for the governors primary in VA.

Edited August 15, 2017 by No Excuses

[Llevron]

Just now, Burgold said:

That puts me in a tough place because I do believe in free speech. Just because you're a ****, a racist, an antisemite or any other attrocity, you don't lose that right. They have the right to speak and protest.

 

Their speech should, however, be countered. It should be countered hopefully peacefully, but it should be countered and good people must remain vocal and vigilant. When it comes to the city and police, what you would hope is that they would have a sufficient deterrent force that nothing happens other than words.

 

I disagree but I cant argue thats what the law is. They have a right to be whatever they want. 

 

But the city knew this was going to end in violence. They showed up with guns and torches. Only one way that would go. If they are going to let it happen, there should have been some kind of authoritative presence to keep people from dying. 

 

There wasnt. People died. 

 

Sure, if I was in charge i would violate this **** out of these peoples rights. They would have no place to gather in my city. I will not hide that. But if you are going to let evil walk through your front door, you better have a plan for it. The city and the police did exactly jack **** until there were bodies to be picked up. Thats my only real argument. 

[Burgold]

I think the danger of their "Unite the Right" rhetoric is that they are tyring to pull off the idea that their idea is mainstream that the whole of the right will follow him. That's just one more reason why condemnation and resistance from the right is necessary.

It's probably a pretty good idea for the people on the right to say, "Hell no. **** off! There's no way we are going to unite with you. There's no way your are one of us or we are one of you!"

 

It's probably something that shouldn't need to be said, but it's something that ought to be said.

[TradeTheBeal!]

38 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

@PleaseBlitz

 

I completely agree with you, my point exactly... These losers probably mortgaged their trailers just to make the trip. These movements usually will die on the vine. Let them do their march, leave on Sunday and remove the statue on Monday. Everybody goes home happy and those idiots accomplished nothing. 

 

Multiple videos of violence by the counter protestors were seen. Even when the leader was at the lectern and they bumrushed the mics.

 

Two points:

 

In the absence of the antifa presence, all those baptist preachers are gonna get the **** beat out of em.

 

A policy of ignore/do not engage regarding Nazis is indefensible.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just now, LadySkinsFan said:

 

They've been recruiting like crazy over the internet for years. That's how come there were guys from Reno and all over there. They know who they all are. 

 

Unite the Right, trying to get them in one place, multiple gatherings all across the country, so they can conglomerate under one umbrella. 

 

Sure, but that's not on public display.  And anyone who is going to seek them out probably is already fairly well versed in their ways.  Now they're on the front page and the main topic for any news channel.  Vastly different than recruiting on the internet where no one is paying attention to them...now people are forced to pay attention to them.  

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

I disagree but I cant argue thats what the law is. They have a right to be whatever they want. 

 

But the city knew this was going to end in violence. They showed up with guns and torches. Only one way that would go. If they are going to let it happen, there should have been some kind of authoritative presence to keep people from dying. 

 

There wasnt. People died. 

 

Sure, if I was in charge i would violate this **** out of these peoples rights. They would have no place to gather in my city. I will not hide that. But if you are going to let evil walk through your front door, you better have a plan for it. The city and the police did exactly jack **** until there were bodies to be picked up. Thats my only real argument. 

As I said, this is a tough one. I have a lot of sympathy for your point of view. The idealist in me that really believes in what I think this country was built around accepts that there is evil within freedom of speech as well as much good.

[No Excuses]

Just now, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Sure, but that's not on public display.  And anyone who is going to seek them out probably is already fairly well versed in their ways.  Now they're on the front page and the main topic for any news channel.  Vastly different than recruiting on the internet where no one is paying attention to them...now people are forced to pay attention to them.  

 

Its mostly worked against them. 

 

The alt-right was supposed to be a sanitized white supremacist movement. They tried to shed the Nazi flags and virgins who LARP image.

 

It didn't really work. 

 

They had a huge rally planned in Boston that is pretty much cancelled at this point. They fear overwhelming backlash because of being labeled as Nazis.

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

They recruit online through reddit, 4chan and other social media platforms. 

 

Alt-right leaders have a huge social media presence. This isn't a fringe movement looking for recruitment through rallies.

 

I keep coming back to the fact that a sympathizer of their movement won half the GOP vote for the governors primary.

 

Right, but my point is that if you're not already looking at those channels then you're not going to come across it.  Social media is only what people bring to it and choose who they want to follow.  On twitter I follow a few friends, Redskins, other athletes, some Skins and Orioles fans, a few news outles other athletes and hot girls. That's how I set it up and there'd never be a real reason for Alt-right stuff to pop up on my feed.  Same with Instagram.  

 

 

[Bonez3]

4 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Two points:

 

In the absence of the antifa presence, all those baptist preachers are gonna get the **** beat out of em.

 

A policy of ignore/do not engage regarding Nazis is indefensible.

I would not ever support ignore. Today, counter protests can arise instantly at remote locations and spread virally. They don't have to physically engage. Frankly, it is the more prudent and strategical approach. 

[@DCGoldPants]

In the 80's in Hebrew School we'd do Fund Raisers to donate money to a cause the class voted on. Stuff like planting trees in Israel. But every year we votes to give the money to "Nazi Hunters" because even though in reality it was for folks who do research to track down old men who shot, gassed, and burned the people my Great-Uncles were blown out of the skies over N. Africa and Italy while fighting. We thought it was like a SWAT Team who literally fought and killed Nazis.

 

2017 in AMERICA and to be honest. We need Nazi Hunters. What the ****?

[LadySkinsFan]

Another thing: where are statements from Republicans? Some have condemned white supremacists, but a general statement is necessary to distance themselves from this crap. Anyone from the RNC chair? I heard Michael Steele denounce, but not much else except McCain, Collins, and a few others that stated in no uncertain terms.

[justice98]

9 minutes ago, Burgold said:

That puts me in a tough place because I do believe in free speech. Just because you're a ****, a racist, an antisemite or any other attrocity, you don't lose that right. They have the right to speak and protest.

 

Their speech should, however, be countered. It should be countered hopefully peacefully, but it should be countered and good people must remain vocal and vigilant. When it comes to the city and police, what you would hope is that they would have a sufficient deterrent force that nothing happens other than words.

 

I'm not in a tough place because it was a public safety issue.  The Mayor's office saw this coming, the judge vasically said "tough". The city tried to adjust and at least move it to a larger area, better suited for such a protest and counter protest, but that never happened.

 

[thebluefood]

8 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Two points:

 

In the absence of the antifa presence, all those baptist preachers are gonna get the **** beat out of em.

 

A policy of ignore/do not engage regarding Nazis is indefensible.

Exactly. Dr. Cornel West even gave Antifa kudos because they took the shots for the clergy after making a link around them. 

 

I mean, some of y'all actually think ignoring fascists work. Ignoring fascists is what got the Weimar Republic knocked off because no one took the Nazis seriously, even as they were gaining steam. Ignoring fascists gets people killed - more than if you face them head on in the streets. Fascism is a political ideology based on bullying and discrimination. If it and the factors that create it aren't addressed by society at large it will fester and it will grow, whether or not you cover you ears and scream "LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

[PCS]

 

 

[No Excuses]

7 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Right, but my point is that if you're not already looking at those channels then you're not going to come across it.  Social media is only what people bring to it and choose who they want to follow.  On twitter I follow a few friends, Redskins, other athletes, some Skins and Orioles fans, a few news outles other athletes and hot girls. That's how I set it up and there'd never be a real reason for Alt-right stuff to pop up on my feed.  Same with Instagram.  

 

 

 

I don't know when any issue has been confronted and solved by pretending it doesn't exist and minimizing it's reality.

 

Thousands of mostly young white men have been joining this extremist movement for years now. In terms of their online presence, there are millions of them who are active in these online communities.

 

I think it was necessary for America to see what's going on with a segment of our society that isn't integrating into normal society and is instead joining a violent, extremist movement.

[PleaseBlitz]

42 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Maybe, but the other thing history shows is that when good people turn a blind eye these movements grow in power, vigor, and atrocity. We've seen that all over the world and throughout the decades and centuries.

 

You say nothing would happen, but this year alone we've had mosques set on fire, synagogues attacked, Holocaust museums vandalized. Dozens of people attacked and some killed. Turning a blind eye can also embolden or encourage. 

 

Yes, you don't want to give them a megaphone, but you also can't give them free rein or let them think that people agree with them, won't stand up to them, or are afraid of them. The violence we saw in Charlottesville was not the first incident this year. It was not a standalone event.

 

Non engagement is not the same thing as turning a blind eye. At all.