Nazis showing up at places uninvited.

[StillUnknown]

25 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

This isnt 1930s Germany. We arent in the Great Depression. Fascism isnt taking over. The fuel for these "movements" is attention. Trump has brought them a ton of that. Minimize it and you starve them of oxygen. 

 

Your arguments sound good in theory, but reality is that fascists individuals are in positions of power and importance

 

How do you minimize it when they have a guy in the oval office doing their bidding?

[PleaseBlitz]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

You guys really cant believe that if you just leave these people alone they will go away. This has been proven time and time again in history. What makes you think its any different now? I cannot understand that line of thinking. 

 

You cant really believe that if you fight them in the streets they will go away. i cannot understand that line of thinking. They showed up so that they could fight people.

[Hersh]

3 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Trump got "exposed" because of it?  What does that even mean?  It's been clear for 2 years that he is the most favored candidate of white supremacists, and he loves them back. Nothing was exposed, it was reinforced. 

 

This is a hate group. It needs conflict to exist. Galvanizing people on the other side is not a bad thing for them. What is a good thing for them is the extraordinary amount of attention they got, which will swell its ranks and embolden it. That is a very bad outcome. 

 

 

Edit:  LOVE the tubas and ridicule approach. 

 

I disagree. Not all GOP supporters of Trump really believe he is a racist or incompetent. Those people hate the white nationalists too and were no doubt disgusted by it. It's good for them to see Trump not respond in any way. 

 

I don't know why anyone thinks a hate group needs conflict to exist, but I'm open to seeing research/studies/etc on that. I also don't know why galvanizing people on the other side is not a bad thing for them. We all see examples of racism in the country and we are reminded of it dramatically with the Dylan Roof's of the world, but it's powerful for people that oppose these people to see it on the campus of a major university. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

1 hour ago, Bonez3 said:

How many members would anyone guess are part of 'Unite the Right/neo-nazi/white supremist'? My guess would be very low. Frankly, the videos lead me to think there were under a 1000 protesters there (complete speculation, but I doubt anywhere even close). But one of the leaders stated it was the largest nationalist gathering in 2 decades. Pretty pathetic to some extent.

 

I don't downplay the significance of domestic terrorism, but these guys are clowns. 

 

However, watching the videos, the counter-protestors really need to look in the mirror. I understand the anger and frustration in being discriminated against, but the clashes were violent. Further, I don't know how it could have been avoided other than just not being there. 

 

I know for certain I would have implored my children NEVER to go to this crap show to protest. Post a video, write a letter of discontent, post on insta-chat. Never argue with a fool. When the protestors are aligning with 2 sides that lost the war, hard to heavily recruit IMO. 'Hey, remember the Nazis and the Confederates... Yea, they got their ass kicked... well we're bringing them back'. Good luck

ah, the many sides argument Cheeto made.

1 hour ago, thebluefood said:

 

Tell ya what - when people are coming for you and yours and saying they want all y'all dead just for who you are who you live, then come back to me with this. 

 

And while you're doing that, go back to Cable Street in London in 1936 and talk to the anti-facists that lined up against Oswald Mosley and his blackshirts and tell them how they should just "be more peaceful" or "ignore them" while they tried to march on and intimidate a Jewish neighborhood. 

 

My life is on the line. My friends lives are on the line. If you think we're not going to fight these creeps "by any means necessary" then you got another thing coming.

exactly.

 

It doesnt affect him, so he doesn't care.

51 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Another thing: where are statements from Republicans? Some have condemned white supremacists, but a general statement is necessary to distance themselves from this crap. Anyone from the RNC chair? I heard Michael Steele denounce, but not much else except McCain, Collins, and a few others that stated in no uncertain terms.

why would they?

 

Again, they enacted laws across the country to help these groups.

9 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Trump got "exposed" because of it?  What does that even mean?  It's been clear for 2 years that he is the most favored candidate of white supremacists, and he loves them back. Nothing was exposed, it was reinforced. 

 

This is a hate group. It needs conflict to exist. Galvanizing people on the other side is not a bad thing for them. What is a good thing for them is the extraordinary amount of attention they got, which will swell its ranks and embolden it. That is a very bad outcome. 

 

 

Edit:  LOVE the tubas and ridicule approach. 

If it was clear, he wouldnt have gotten 60 million votes.

[Hersh]

1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

You cant really believe that if you fight them in the streets they will go away. i cannot understand that line of thinking. They showed up so that they could fight people.

 

And many of them got exposed as ******s. 

[PleaseBlitz]

4 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

Your arguments sound good in theory, but reality is that fascists individuals are in positions of power and importance

 

How do you minimize it when they have a guy in the oval office doing their bidding?

 

Oh believe me, I get it. You We minimize it by marginalizing him and then getting rid of him in a way that demoralizes theses ****ers. Or creating enough political pressure that he actually repudiates them in a meaningful way. 

 

But a streetfight followed by "on many sides" is now a rallying cry for these assholes. Another bad outcome of that strategy. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

You guys really cant believe that if you just leave these people alone they will go away. This has been proven time and time again in history. What makes you think its any different now? I cannot understand that line of thinking. 

 

Denial.  Some are loathe to imagine themselves allied with antifa...and I totally understand that.  They really, really hope this will all just go away if they ignore it.  It's human nature.  They'll procrastinate on making the hard decision until they absolutely have to.

 

They'll come around, though.  These Nazis aren't going anywhere with Trump in office.

[Llevron]

7 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

You cant really believe that if you fight them in the streets they will go away. i cannot understand that line of thinking. They showed up so that they could fight people.

 

And we could beat them into the ground if we had to. But I dont advocate fighting a war in our streets, no. I dont believe thats what I have been calling for. I, however, dont think we should just run and hide when they come to town. What kind of message does that give? 

 

Im calling for the police to stop it. Period. They should be a terrorist group and prosecuted as such. This country should not allow it at all. 

 

I do want to know, however, what you think we should do. Or does it stop at do nothing and the problem will solve itself. Its like you have never picked up a history book in your entire life. And Im not trying to be extra confrontational here so please dont take it that way. I just really dont understand how we go from 

 

1) Nazi's

2) ...........

3) No Nazi's

 

I need help with this cause im really not getting it. 

 

 

EDIT: Where you every bullied in childhood? 

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Llevron

[Burgold]

8 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Oh, I think that the increased openness of such movements says a lot more.  

 

These people are doing this because they think the 2016 election proves that most of America agrees with them.  After all, their Guy won the election.  

 

Part of the problem is, they're partially right.  For every person out there in the street behind a Nazi flag, there's thousands of people who actually support many of the policies that the marchers like.  They just don't like the Nazi flag.  (And they think that because they don;t like the Nazi flag, therefore wanting the government to kick out all the non-Christians doesn't make them racist.  '

 

I think you are way too close to being right about this.

[PleaseBlitz]

2 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

If it was clear, he wouldnt have gotten 60 million votes.

 

It was absolutely clear. Those 60 mil do not care. 

 

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/08/quote-of-the-day-we-polled-the-race-stuff/

[Bozo the kKklown]

Just now, PleaseBlitz said:

 

It was absolutely clear. Those 60 mil do not care. 

 

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/08/quote-of-the-day-we-polled-the-race-stuff/

true indeed

[Burgold]

8 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

Your arguments sound good in theory, but reality is that fascists individuals are in positions of power and importance

 

How do you minimize it when they have a guy in the oval office doing their bidding?

And even if you don't believe that he is one of them and doing their bidding it is really nearly impossible to believe that some of them do not have his ear and aren't installed as highly placed and influential advisers. 

5 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

 

But a streetfight followed by "on many sides" is now a rallying cry for these assholes. Another bad outcome of that strategy. 

I'm not an advocate for violence, but I do think counter protests are necessary and a good thing. My preference would be that the counter protesters gather, outnumber the ****s 10:1 and shout so loudly that every time the Nazis try to exercise their freedom of speech no one hears them.

[Llevron]

7 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I think you are way too close to being right about this.

 

Well thats the thing. If those people that feel the same way stop being afraid to say how they feel, this **** goes up to a whole other level. 

Also there is no way I have given out 100 likes for the day. Im being targeted. 

[ixcuincle]

Normally detest Fallon but this is a must see

 

https://twitter.com/FallonTonight/status/897301220020408320/

[Barney B]

Martin Luther King didn't win by showing up at Klan rallies dishing out beat downs.

 

He won by organizing peaceful demonstrations and letting the segregationists show themselves for the brutal thugs they were, thereby gaining the sympathy of the vast majority of fair-minded people. He won despite the calls of others in his ranks for less non-violent solutions to American segregation.

 

No one else could have accomplished what he did as quickly, and he was the greatest American moral leader of the 20th century.

 

[PleaseBlitz]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

And we could beat them into the ground if we had to. But I dont advocate fighting a war in our streets, no. I dont believe thats what I have been calling for. I, however, dont think we should just run and hide when they come to town. What kind of message does that give? 

 

Im calling for the police to stop it. Period. They should be a terrorist group and prosecuted as such. This country should not allow it at all. 

 

I do want to know, however, what you think we should do. Or does it stop at do nothing and the problem will solve itself. Its like you have never picked up a history book in your entire life. And Im not trying to be extra confrontational here so please dont take it that way. I just really dont understand how we go from 

 

1) Nazi's

2) ...........

3) No Nazi's

 

I need help with this cause im really not getting it. 

 

 

 

I've said repeatedly, repeatedly, that not physically fighting these people in the strrets is not the same as "just ignore it and it will go away."  The fact that people keep saying these are the only 2 options leads me to believe that they know their argument sucks and need to rely on strawmen. I know you can do better, I've seen many of your other posts. 

 

Re: the history book crack, thats just ****ing stupid. 2017 America is not the same as 1933 Germany. Kind of a lot has changed. The fact that you are making that comparison leads me to believe that youve never read a history book and that you think history only exists so that your life, special snowflake, has context. 

 

This isnt a matter of getting to "no nazis."  There have been Nazis since the 30s and the Klan for forever in our country. They ebb and flow depending on a bunch of societal factors. The goal here is to keep them a fringe movement, not a mainstream contingency. Trump is obviously the worst thing that could have happened. Can't change what happened. But Every time thay win a news cycle, they gain attention, legitimacy and normalcy. They win news cycles by causing chaos. 

 

We marginalize them by letting them have their pointless rallies without them becoming national events. Afterwards, we talk and write about how pointless it was and how stupid and un-American their beliefs are. We elect people who actually find their beliefs abhorrent. We teach our kids that they are bad and sad people. 

 

Your strategy of beating them into the ground wont work. These guys have been beaten up their whole lives, it's why they joined a hate group. I would love for the police to just silence them, sometimes the First Amendment is a mother****er. Should we suspend the First Amendment?  While Trump is in office, no less?  

 

Your proposed solutions sound simple. It's because they are. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

If there is a huge economic downturn in the future, how far away are we from things going down that route? 

 

These White Supremacist rallies are probably a little too early.

[TradeTheBeal!]

4 minutes ago, Barney B said:

Martin Luther King didn't win.

 

Correct.  MLK won a few small victories that are in the process of being erased on a daily basis.

 

Then he got shot in the chest.

[Hersh]

9 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I've said repeatedly, repeatedly, that not physically fighting these people in the strrets is not the same as "just ignore it and it will go away."  The fact that people keep saying these are the only 2 options leads me to believe that they know their argument sucks and need to rely on strawmen. I know you can do better, I've seen many of your other posts. 

 

The vast majority in the counter protest didn't show up looking for a street fight. 

[DogofWar1]

52% of Republicans in a recent poll said they would support postponing the 2020 election over voter fraud fears.

 

Fascism has flourished in the dark and has reached such a size that it has serious political power already.  If fascistic tendencies have already penetrated to greater than half of the party in power already, then my concern is that a continued attempt to starve them will not work.

 

Further, I don't think they will be starved out even if there is no opposition.  Sinclair broadcasting is rapidly approaching being in 80+% of households unfettered by Trump's FCC.  Fox is more than happy to show these people and show them in a positive light.  We know where talk radio stands.  And internationally, RT is pushing for them hard, and its gained a surprising following, mainly by hiring ex-MSM people who most of us know.

 

This movement, whether we call them Nazis, Fascists, Alt-Right, whatever, has already achieved greater political success than its previous incarnations.  Bannon is in the White House.  Trump is highly sympathetic, at a minimum.  The GOP is on board because they are a potent voting block.  Trying to keep them off the airwaves and thus starve them hasn't worked, it's propelled them to the highest offices in the land, in part because it's flourishing in darkness and in part because when its brought up on the airwaves it's done so in a positive or sympathetic light.

 

I don't think this is just going to disappear.  There are too many powerful media entities backing them, but even before those media entities backed them they had swelled to millions in the dark reaches of the internet.  I don't think there is any starving these groups out.

 

Now, does that mean violence against them in the answer?  I don't think so, it hasn't quite escalated to that point.  But I do think they need to he confronted head on.  Average people can be slowly lured in by the movement, because the movement often obscures its darker plans right up until you're pretty much fully indoctrinated.  People don't go from normal to a Daily Stormer regular overnight.  And if people knew what the daily stormer was espousing, normal people would never walk that path (I have never seen the K word so many times as in the brief visit I made to that site).  But normal people don't know.  They need to know, because the body of society will reject these people, but that's only if we vaccinate the population against them by showing what they really are.

[thebluefood]

6 minutes ago, Barney B said:

Martin Luther King didn't win by showing up at Klan rallies dishing out beat downs.

 

He won by organizing peaceful demonstrations and letting the segregationists show themselves for the brutal thugs they were, thereby gaining the sympathy of the vast majority of fair-minded people. He won despite the calls of others in his ranks for less non-violent solutions to American segregation.

 

No one else could have accomplished what he did as quickly, and he was the greatest American moral leader of the 20th century.

 

I knew someone would drag Dr. King out like this. It's inevitable. 

 

Funny thing about him is that while he personally used non-violent tactics exclusively, he empathized and worked with those who didn't.

 

Quote

“I contend that the cry of "Black Power" is, at bottom, a reaction to the reluctance of white power to make the kind of changes necessary to make justice a reality for the Negro. I think that we've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard. And, what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the economic plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years."

That's from an interview he did in 1966 with CBS. 

 

Quote

I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.”

From "Letters from a Birmingham Jail." 

 

And while Dr. King ought to be revered for his actions, we've been seeing a steady reversal of the progress made during those years - with the most obvious case being the Supreme Court invalidating parts of the Civil Rights Act which opened the door for states to pounce on it and do what federal and state authorities have been doing since the republic's birth: using backdoor tactics to exclude undesirables. 

 

Beating back fascism and the inequity it creates requires a diversity of tactics. We saw that in Charlottesville over the weekend as Anti-Fascists (including members of the IWW's General Defense Committee) kept clergy and other non-violent parties safe from literal Nazis and other white supremacists

 

[PleaseBlitz]

27 minutes ago, Burgold said:

 

I'm not an advocate for violence, but I do think counter protests are necessary and a good thing. My preference would be that the counter protesters gather, outnumber the ****s 10:1 and shout so loudly that every time the Nazis try to exercise their freedom of speech no one hears them.

 This would be my preference too, and ive actually participated in such counter protests.http://www.theeagleonline.com/article/2016/11/hundreds-counter-protest-westboro-baptist-church-nov-11-2016

unfortunately, i dont believe we changed the WBC's point of view. They are still a thing as far as i know. 

 

Problem is it's really hard to pull off outside of a fairly large city. There is a reason this event happened in Charlottesville Va when school was out. These guys may be idiots, but they know better than to show up in the Bronx. 

7 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

The vast majority in the counter protest didn't show up looking for a street fight. 

 

Well one found them, didnt it?

[Destino]

We can't punch the racism away.  We can't beat the devil out of these fools.  That's just what we want to do, because... who wouldn't want to punch a nazi?  I get it.  It's infuriating to watch these alt right clowns in a suit and smirking their way through a press conference while trying to put a more respectable face on the white supremacy.  I wish I could leap through my screen and strangle the mother****ers.  

 

They must be opposed, but I think there are better and less risky ways to do it than fist fighting in the streets. Better ways that take attention away from them or leave them as the only ones crossing any lines.  If they must have a rally, have a larger one at a different location.  Dwarf their numbers, mock their message, expose their identities, expose where/how they are recruiting, oppose their ideas, and keep them locked on the long road of failure they've been on for decades.  

 

This is not to say say that these terrorist groups don't need to be opposed with more than just words.  They do.  The government has to do more to shut these psychos down, and that's where this gets sketchy.  We can't trust the current administration to do that.  These violent groups can't be allowed to grow unchecked, but that sort of opposition should be handled by law enforcement.  If they keep growing as they have we will all regret it when they manage to blow something up.  We know they're trying.  

 

My concern with violence, isnt just that it's generally a bad idea but also that it could backfire badly.  I think these nazi goons are counting on left wing violence and working hard to incite it.  Certain elements in the media and government seemed more than ready to talk about antifa violence in response to Charlottesville.  Even the president had his "many sides" bull**** ready to go, and it might have worked if not for that act of terrorism.  

 

The videos don't only show nazis attacking peaceful protestors, they show two sides eager for a fight finding one.  Without the terrorist act today's narrative isn't nearly as one sided.  Worse yet, if the terrorist act had come from what appeared to be the counter protestors side (like the Dallas shooter or the guy who shot up a softball practice) the right wing, and these nazis, would have seized the opportunity to paint themselves as victims.  

 

 

 

[Dan T.]

19 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

52% of Republicans in a recent poll said they would support postponing the 2020 election over voter fraud fears.

 

Fascism has flourished in the dark and has reached such a size that it has serious political power already.  If fascistic tendencies have already penetrated to greater than half the party in power already.

 

I have such little regard for Donald Trump that I can foresee him triggering a national crisis when he refuses to concede defeat in the 2020 election.  His pathological egomania will fuel his resistance, and he will once again spout false claims of voter fraud which will be enough for those remaining ignorant loyalists to wrap themselves in a  cloak of legitimacy.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Dan T.

[thebluefood]

11 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

 

Well one found them, didnt it?

Yup and they stood up for themselves like champions instead of cowering in fear. You don't let this fly. We've seen what happens when you let this kind of thing fly.