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WP: Fla. police shoot black man with his hands up as he tries to help autistic patient

Sticksboi05

By Sticksboi05
in The Tailgate

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grhqofb5

grhqofb5

Posted
Posted

My bad trying to do more than I should have at one time and conflated hm being wounded (which I knew but glitched on) with other incidents under discussion this morning that had fatal endings. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

 Plus the Ghost thread.  Don't forget about that.

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TheGreatBuzz

TheGreatBuzz

Posted
Posted

Actually, i'm probably one of the lower profiles in the gun control thread..........

 

~Bang

Not just the gun control thread but I think you are quick to relate many things that come up here for discussion back to gun control.  I am also pro gun rights and anti-NRA.  And I will also call it out when an issue is related back to too many guns.  But I don't think this is one.  Don't even see how you can think that.  If the cop had come out and said he thought someone had a gun or thought the toy truck was a gun, I could understand.  My understanding is the only thing the cop has said is "oops."

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Kilmer17

Kilmer17

Posted
Posted

Why did you say "for sport" there?   The problem is too many black people getting shot when they shouldn't be.   By interjecting this "for sport" part, you change the debate and make it look like BLM and everyone else is accusing the police of ganging up and hunting down blacks for fun.

 

Well, it's certainly not hard to defend the police against that allegation.   Clearly the controversy is over.  Everyone should shut up and stop whining.

That's a fair point.  And not my intent.

 

I don't see how the actions of a cop in FL can be connected to the actions of a cop in Minnesota.  Maybe both cops shot black men because they both held racial animosity.  But even then, are the connected?  Or just two racist cops?

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Destino

Destino

Posted
Posted

Why did you say "for sport" there?   The problem is too many black people getting shot when they shouldn't be.   By interjecting this "for sport" part, you change the debate and make it look like BLM and everyone else is accusing the police of ganging up and hunting down blacks for fun.

 

Well, it's certainly not hard to defend the police against that allegation.   Clearly the controversy is over.  Everyone should shut up and stop whining.

 

The problem is a great deal larger than black people shot that shouldn't be.  The problem also includes police being racist in their disproportionate targeting of black people, excessively violent in ways that do not involve guns, and the apparent lack of a credible system to hold them accountable.  The shootings simply attract more attention. 

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Predicto

Predicto

Posted
Posted

The problem is a great deal larger than black people shot that shouldn't be.  The problem is police being racist in their disproportionate targeting of black people, excessively violent in ways that do not involve guns, and the apparent lack of a credible system to hold them accountable.  The shootings simply attract more attention. 

 

 

Correct.   But one side in this discussion likes to try to reframe the debate into "Are Police Officers Going Out Hunting Blacks For Sport?"   Makes the debate much easier to win.  

 

It's the Guiliani gambit, and Kilmer just did it.  Probably not on purpose, but it somehow happens every time one of these discussions goes on long enough.  

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Dan T.

Dan T.

Posted
Posted

, I believe that the trigger happy officer thought he was reaching for a gun when he reached into his house for something (not a gun). I do believe that during the standoff that Greer told the officers that he did have a gun.

Basically, these two circumstances aren't really all that similar.

 

But that's the part that the shooter's fellow Fairfax officers refuted.  Geer did NOT reach down for anything.  Not to the ground, not to his waist.

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Dan T.

Dan T.

Posted
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I just want to point out again, I wouldn't put much stock in who got shot given the story so far.  If 3 shots were fired, only 1 hit a person, and you can be pretty sure the cop wasn't aiming for the guys knee.

 

I wouldn't attach much significance to who the bullet hit.

 

The police had the situation surrounded. So the guy who fired the shot had been stationary and had plenty of time to take aim, probably able to steady his shooting hand on a car hood or door or something.  Then "pew pew pew" and he doesn't come close to what he's shooting at?.  That's pretty damning evidence that he shouldn't be wielding a gun. 

I thought that was my job. And if you look behind the statistics, half of the animals written about in those threads are attacked at gun point. It's not the transgender in the bathroom we need to be wary of. It's the gun owner at the petting zoo!

 

If only those animals had guns, they could fight off their sex assaulters.

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Springfield

Springfield

Posted
Posted

But that's the part that the shooter's fellow Fairfax officers refuted. Geer did NOT reach down for anything. Not to the ground, not to his waist.

Yes, however this was a standoff situation and he had admitted that he had a gun. Not a random call that they were responding to. Greer had instigated this altercation.

Anyhow, I don't know why we are even bothering to argue about this. Innocent people are being shot.

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Dan T.

Dan T.

Posted
Posted

---another, near-tragic, incident raising serious questions. I am going to co-opt  it for just this post. It very rarely gets discussed in major public venues, but there are tens of thousands of social workers and mental health workers who go into dangerous places to help distressed individuals and communities routinely and many are assaulted and even killed every year.

.

 

I am grateful to know so many of these people. 

 

 

I'll add nurses to that list of people who face the prospect of getting assaulted all the time as a hazard of the job.  Those assaults, by the mentally ill, OD patients, confused elderly, etc. almost never get reported, but the assaults hurt just the same.

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Sacks 'n' Stuff

Sacks 'n' Stuff

Posted
Posted

lol... what in the world is the difference?

When asked about why an innocent black man who was attending to his autistic patient was shot while laying on the ground with his hand up, Mr. Bang laughed out loud and replied "What's the difference."

Tell me Bang, do you worship at the altar of Lucifer like Saul Alinsky? You don't have to answer that. We've already determined that you do.

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Bang

Bang

Posted
Posted

Not just the gun control thread but I think you are quick to relate many things that come up here for discussion back to gun control.  I am also pro gun rights and anti-NRA.  And I will also call it out when an issue is related back to too many guns.  But I don't think this is one.  Don't even see how you can think that.  If the cop had come out and said he thought someone had a gun or thought the toy truck was a gun, I could understand.  My understanding is the only thing the cop has said is "oops."

I cannot help but note that the hysteria ginned up by the lobby resulted in record sales, all predicated on complete lies... and the level to which we're descending in terms of lack of firearm responsibility by SO many people..  it's a direct correlation.

This lobby wants you to believe we have a mental health problem, and the answer to a crazy society is more hysterics, more harangues, and of course, more gun sales.

This is supposed to the organization promoting responsible gun ownership.

 

We have a problem with hair trigger police. It is getting people killed unnecessarily. (Some felons get what they ask for, obviously.)

It's not just this one, although this one is a pretty egregious example. I totally get that cops are people and can be as prone to making a mistake as anyone, even if it is an honest mistake, or accidental.

And the fact that there are so many guns out there that any smart cop has to assume one exists until he can prove otherwise, especially if someone reports it...i think it can't help but exponentially increases the chance of a nervous mistake.

 

(in my own defense mostly i think you'd also find that mostly my contribution / suggestion to gun control is to get rid of the "private seller" loopholes and prosecute gun dealers who use it to sell weapons to criminals. i believe it's a relatively few bad apples that are spoiling it, and i believe if we stop at the idea of 'criminals will always get guns" and start to pursue where they're getting them, then real crime can be decreased and leave every responsible owner's gun rights intact.

 

Look me up ;)

 

~Bang

Do we ever get down to trying to figure out WHY these things happen if not because of the individual situation?

.

I think because of the sheer number of guns out in circulation, police have to assume a gun, especially when one is reported.

I think poor training and the natural nervousness of that actuality causes accidents, clouds judgment... which in turn is played up by media and other factions to further divide people and add to the overall edginess between police and citizen.

 

~Bang

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Corcaigh

Corcaigh

Posted
Posted

I think because of the sheer number of guns out in circulation, police have to assume a gun, especially when one is reported.

I think poor training and the natural nervousness of that actuality causes accidents, clouds judgment... which in turn is played up by media and other factions to further divide people and add to the overall edginess between police and citizen.

 

A percentage of the police are scared ****less. I've personally experienced this during a routine traffic stop on a sunny day in a nice part of town when someone (a middle-aged white woman) approached the cop to ask for directions. He started screaming at her to get back and put his hand on his firearm as if to draw it.

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted

A percentage of the police are scared ****less. I've personally experienced this during a routine traffic stop on a sunny day in a nice part of town when someone (a middle-aged white woman) approached the cop to ask for directions. He started screaming at her to get back and put his hand on his firearm as if to draw it.

 

I once found a license on the ground in the shopping area around White Marsh (north of Baltimore just off 95).  There was a cop not too far away with his back turned towards me, and loud music playing.  I took the license to him.  He couldn't hear me over the music so I tapped his shoulder (and it was really just a one finger tap) to get his attention.

 

He immediately put his hand on his gun spun around, and then yelled at me not to touch him.

 

It was a summer (still very light out) evening, and I've never gotten the impression the White Marsh shopping area is a high threat area.

 

Police union chief says north MIA cop who shot mental health pro Thot he was in danger, aimed for autistic man, and missed.

 

 

Like I said, only 1 out of 3 shoots hit anybody, and he was almost certainly not aiming for the guys knee.  I wouldn't put any significance in who the bullet actually hit.  I think it was pretty clear there was some bad shooting.

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