WP: Fla. police shoot black man with his hands up as he tries to help autistic patient

[stevenaa]

Love to know why they didn't provide the video of the shooting.   You know they captured it.  Maybe holding out for biggest bid on that part of the clip.  Some news station would pay dearly for it.   A bit cynical I suppose.  

[justice98]

Stress is undeniably at an all time high right now. 3 shots is one seconds trigger pulling. Easily done due to nerves IMO.

That's terrifying. Truly terrifying.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Good pay and benefits? What Utopian world do you live in? Cops in Miami make $46k. Working 12 hour shifts. Dealing with the worst of the human race on a daily basis.

 

True story... About a month ago I was chatting with this guy and it turns out he was a cop. My friend, who is also a cop comes over so I introduce them and they start talking cop stuff. The first guy says, "The best place to be a cop right now is San Antonio. The starting salary is something like $70k."

 

So I'm like, "That would scare me to death." and he goes, "yeah, there's a good chance you could get killed if you don't know what how to work with the gangs."

[justice98]

Scared cops should not be on the street. If you're too afraid to do your job properly then you should find another line of work.

I forget who said this recently (might've been Bill Maher or somebody like that), but they said the same thing. If it's too stressful that you cant keep from shooting people out of nerves, go drive a truck for UPS or something.

[Riggo#44]

Pretty sure the autistic kid is Hispanic. But whatever. Like I said, if they're both white and the exact same situation plays out--don't shoot. He's autistic. I'm his therapist. I'm trying to help him--I just can't imagine shots are being fired.

 

I think the story of John Geer answers this question.

[tshile]

It seems like there is a pattern of always coming up with a justification for things like this regardless of how loose or outrageous it sounds, instead of simply saying "Oops, sorry"

 

That's because most of the time justification is easy. Violent behavior, possession of a weapon, resisting, and usually there's a criminal history of violence/possession of weapons.

 

Not enough time for criminal history to be brought up, but given the video it's hard to imagine how that would even matter in this case.

 

I think the issue is that people view all of these equally, so people expect equal responses.

 

For instance: When the nonsense with michael brown went down I thought the protesting was absurd. The eventual rioting, looting, and destruction of buildings just added to the absurdity.

 

In this case, unless something significant comes up that I currently can't imagine (I really can't imagine what would actually matter that could come up at this point), the protests would be deserved. I don't think anyone should loot and I find the idea of looting as a form of protest absurd, but I'd have a hard time not understanding them if they burned down buildings.  This one, currently, seems to completely justify all the outrage. I don't like where the outrage leads, but in situations like this I certainly understand it.

 

In short: they're not equal.

 

(I brought up this instance and another instance, but there are other instances that are all over the spectrum, it's not meant to lump everything else into the michael brown category, and then say this is the one case where it's justified, i know there are others)

[Dan T.]

I absolutely do not think a white guy would have been shot.  The fear that led to this,  IMO,  is tied to current national events.   It's not rational fear.  You had a couple black nutjobs go on cop killing sprees in "revenge" of mistreatment by cops.  Cops are on jittery edge worrying about it, and given the circumstances,  black suspects are going to draw their paranoid concern.  Trained or not, they are human and suspect to all our frailties.   Not excusing the shooting.   All appearances are it was completely unjustified.  He should lose his job at a minimum.    Police forces nation wide need to be hammering home and training on this.   We're seeing too many shootings when there is a potential threat but not a clear and present danger.  

 

So your view is that police fear and distrust of black men has only cropped up in the last few weeks?

[PeterMP]

So your view is that police fear distrust of black men has only cropped up in the last few weeks?

 

I don't want to speak for him, but i think it is likely that it has gotten a lot more stressful being a cop in general over the last few weeks, including interacting with black men.

[BornaSkinsFan83]

I think the story of John Geer answers this question.

I don't see the similarities outside of him also being shot by police.

[Riggo#44]

I don't see the similarities outside of him also being shot by police.

 

He was white, and by all accounts, did everything he was supposed to. The circumstances don't seem any different to me, just based off the information read in these articles, than any of these other shootings.

[Dan T.]

I don't see the similarities outside of him also being shot by police.

 

Both victims were shot inexplicably.  Both were well surrounded by police, and no imminent danger to the police was apparent when the officer fires. 

 

Now we'll see if the outcomes are similar.  It took months and months for the Fairfax officer to be convicted, after lying about why he fired ("Geer dropped his hands to his waist'), lies that other officers later refuted.

[KingGibbs]

Unbelievable . There's no defending this, period. All it does is escalate tensions and these officers involved in such shootings are putting their fellow compadres in danger.

[BornaSkinsFan83]

He was white, and by all accounts, did everything he was supposed to. The circumstances don't seem any different to me, just based off the information read in these articles, than any of these other shootings.

My question was about this specific scenario. Where a man, sitting with a clearly distraught individual holding a toy truck, with his hands in the air, is telling police that he's a therpist trying to help his autistic patient. If he's white, I just can't imagine he's going to be shot.

The situation you're referring to is a drunk man who has thrown all of his girlfriends **** into the yard. Again, where are the similarities?

Just because white people are also wrongfully killed by police doesn't mean a Black person isn't shot by them because he's black.

[Bang]

Another wonderful day in Guntopia. We are all so much safer for there being 300 million guns in the public that the cops think a toy truck might be a gun because some terrified citizen reported a toy truck as a gun.

 

But as to the guy flat on his back with his hands clearly visible as he verbally informs the officers of the situation... 

Clearly he's reaching for the gun in the sky.

Which is conveniently off camera.

AND, i might add, he has obvious thumbs and forefingers on both hands, which can be formed into a gun and fired by simply saying the word

 

~Bang

[Major Harris]

This is terrible.

[Zguy28]

Except that there are two guys.  One is a black guy flat on his back with his hands in the air.  The other is a white guy with what may be, might be, could be a weapon in his hand.  And they shoot the black guy.   God only knows why.  But for that reason alone, it's going to fit the current national narrative.

 

As the woman in the video said, "Why they shoot the black guy and not the fat guy?"

Maybe they missed the autistic man and hit him by accident? Who knows.

 

What I do know: its inexcusable.

[NoCalMike]

 

 

In short: they're not equal.

 

(I brought up this instance and another instance, but there are other instances that are all over the spectrum, it's not meant to lump everything else into the michael brown category, and then say this is the one case where it's justified, i know there are others)

 

Right, but that is precisely my point.  In *this* situation if it was truly an accident, and an apology is issued, remorse is shown etc etc, then it might go at least some way in making people think differently about the times when cops do have a good reason to discharge their weapons, however if *this* situation is treated like the other ones, and it becomes a game of "how can we somehow make the public believe this behavior therapist is actually a thug who deserved it" then there will be a problem.   I wasn't suggesting every single person shot by the police deserves an apology.

[BornaSkinsFan83]

Stress is undeniably at an all time high right now. 3 shots is one seconds trigger pulling. Easily done due to nerves IMO.

Thinking about this, can you put rubber bullets and real bullets in the same magazine? If so, why not make the first 4 or 5 bullets in a magazine rubber? Then at least when **** goes bad there's a chance a life isn't going to be lost.

[Mooka]

Not much wiggle room for Florida police here. The headlines look awful - Autistic Man's Caregiver -  can't put up pictures of this guy in gang colors or bring up his criminal record, you don't hear any "Stop resisting," or "He's got a gun!" 

 

They need to make an example of this officer before it gets out of hand. 

 

 

"When there's a will, there's a way"

-Goku

 

Waiting for the police to claim the guy didn't have his hands innocently in the air, but that he was charging up his super attack.

[tshile]

 I wasn't suggesting every single person shot by the police deserves an apology.

 

I wasn't trying to say you were, I was just speaking generally. I'm on the same page as you.

[Mr. Sinister]

Not much wiggle room for Florida police here. The headlines look awful - Autistic Man's Caregiver - can't put up pictures of this guy in gang colors or bring up his criminal record, you don't hear any "Stop resisting," or "He's got a gun!"

They need to make an example of this officer before it gets out of hand.

Waiting for the police to claim the guy didn't have his hands innocently in the air, but that he was charging up his super attack.

Officer:

We could not see a gun per se, but he was definitely powering up, and I feared for my life. You ever seen a raging SuperSaiyan? You have a split second to react or your only hope is that some gump finds the 7 dragonballs and brings you back to life"

[Springfield]

He was white, and by all accounts, did everything he was supposed to. The circumstances don't seem any different to me, just based off the information read in these articles, than any of these other shootings.

While I don't think that Greer should've been shot, I believe that the trigger happy officer thought he was reaching for a gun when he reached into his house for something (not a gun). I do believe that during the standoff that Greer told the officers that he did have a gun.

Basically, these two circumstances aren't really all that similar.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Another wonderful day in Guntopia. We are all so much safer for there being 300 million guns in the public that the cops think a toy truck might be a gun because some terrified citizen reported a toy truck as a gun.

 

 

I had a thought but didn't want to get blasted for turning this into another gun control thread.

 

There are many cases of cops who, I assume, have been put through a fair amount of training and have passed some stringent background check continuously demonstrating a complete lack of responsibility with their 15 round, standard magazine pistols.

 

Sooooo I'm feeling ok about untrained, unvetted, paranoid , yokels walking around with ARs.

[Riggo#44]

My question was about this specific scenario. Where a man, sitting with a clearly distraught individual holding a toy truck, with his hands in the air, is telling police that he's a therpist trying to help his autistic patient. If he's white, I just can't imagine he's going to be shot.

The situation you're referring to is a drunk man who has thrown all of his girlfriends **** into the yard. Again, where are the similarities?

Just because white people are also wrongfully killed by police doesn't mean a Black person isn't shot by them because he's black.

 

Here's my issue with that thought process: it automatically assumes he was shot because he was black. To me, that's a dangerous assumption--we have absolutely no idea what the cop was thinking (I don't even know the race of the cop). As someone posted before, he should absolutely be fired and charged with assault with a deadly weapon and whatever else. However, I don't want to make the assumption that he's a ****ing idiot and a racist, rather than just a ****ing idiot. I am not making excuses for the cop, but I think this mentality that every time a black person is shot, it's race driven, feeds the anger and racial divide and escalates tensions.

[Gamebreaker]

I'm really starting to believe a major part of police reform needs to be a complete overhaul of their human resources. To me, it looks like they take a certain type of personality. One that is loyal to his fellow policeman, but also prone to make rash stupid decisions without critical thinking, or maybe just itching to use that gun on their hip they've been training for.