WP: Fla. police shoot black man with his hands up as he tries to help autistic patient

[Mr. Sinister]

Sooooo I'm feeling ok about untrained, unvetted, paranoid , yokels walking around with ARs.

Firing into and identifying a target in a panicked crowd is very difficult. Not to mention that target is moving, and is likely armoured, and there is pa demonium everywhere in a very small area. There's a reason why soldiers are in basically a killzone in places like Fallujah.

And if soldiers and trained combat specialists are faced with a difficult task, how can anyone feel safe with a second shooter civilian entering the mad fray, even with previous experience (but assuming they haven't had extensive training in awhile)?

Nothing to do with this, but it is something I think about, and hope I never see, because it would be devastating, especially for the person who thought that they could save everyone.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Sure, we can all talk about how being a cop is a high stress situation.

 

You know what else is? Being the care giver of an autistic man. At the best of times. How about being the care giver of an autistic man while you both have semi automatic rifles pointed at you?

 

One of the parties involved kept their cool and handled the situation with composure. One of the parties involved had training in defusing high tense situations by remaining calm and talking through what was happening. 

 

Sadly, that person was not the officer. I am in tears.

[Destino]

If the autistic kid holding a toy truck was white and if the therapist who got shot was white, and the exact same situation plays out--sitting down in the middle of the street, hands in the air, "Don't shoot. He's autistic. I'm his therapist. I'm trying to help him."--do you honestly believe shots are still going to be fired? Honestly?

I want to say it wouldn't but I watched a cop shoot Andrew Thomas, a white guy, crawling out of his car after an accident and then lie to his dispatcher on camera. The officer ignored the woman that was thrown from the car that was alive at the time. He faced no charges because he fired accidentally, according to prosecutor.

We've all read about John Geer, or should have, who was shot by fairfax county police with his hands up. The shooter in that instance was found guilty.... and released from prison a week later.

Daniel Shaver, another white guy, was shot while being made to crawl towards officers for the great sin of trying to keep his shorts from falling off. He was unarmed, complying with police and not at all combative. In fact, he was crying and begging officers not to shoot him at the time.

So to answer your question:  Yes I could see Charles Kinsey being shot by police if he was white, despite doing everything he could to avoid being shot. It's happened before.

(Side note worth mentioning; Charles Kinsey may have saved that autistic boys life.)

This is not saying "All Lives Matter" or anything so trite. My point is that while black Americans face the brunt of police violence and racial bias, the problem with police shooting is not limited to them. White privilege only reduces your odds of getting shot wrongly, but it does not eliminate it.

Everyone has an interest in this issue.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

If that caregiver had a glock this never would have happened. That autistic chap isn't making it out the door on my watch.

[Popeman38]

In 2010, a Miami New Times investigation revealed that more than half the cops in Miami Beach made six figures a year, and some racked up more than $200,000. What's more, some of the highest-paid officers had some of the worst records.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/half-of-miami-beachs-best-paid-employees-are-cops-including-three-suspended-last-year-6553078

 

I dont want to derail this thread but officers and fire fighters are compensated well imo. This doesnt include a valuation of the pensions, early retirement, benefits etc. or the private security jobs they also take on. 

 

Officers should be well compensated but many also maximize the system with overtime. 

Miami Beach versus North Miami. BIG difference. Miami Beach is the highest paid force in Miami, BY FAR. The officer that shot the dude was a North Miami officer, so my point stands.

[NoCalMike]

Maybe the cop thought "behavior therapist" was code for "Wizard" and thought the guy was trying to manipulate him with his spells?

[RonJeremy]

Maybe they missed the autistic man and hit him by accident? Who knows.

 

What I do know: its inexcusable.

 

Why would you shoot the austic man...or either of them?  Why didn't the Cops confirm the situation with the Assisted Living Facilty?  They could confirm the guy is Autistic and has no idea what is going on....and the other guy is an employee trying to help him.  Seriously, in a stand off...no one can making a ****ing phone call?!?!?

[Bozo the kKklown]

I want you all trying to explain this to think about something and try to be honest with yourself...

If the autistic kid holding a toy truck was white and if the therapist who got shot was white, and the exact same situation plays out--sitting down in the middle of the street, hands in the air, "Don't shoot. He's autistic. I'm his therapist. I'm trying to help him."--do you honestly believe shots are still going to be fired? Honestly?

Hell no

There is video last year in LA of a white woman who stole a car and put officers on a police chase. She crashed, got out of the car and started dancing to the Future and Drake song "Where Ya At" and ignored everything the officers said. It almost looked staged.

No shots fired.

[Mr. Sinister]

Why would you shoot the austic man...or either of them? Why didn't the Cops confirm the situation with the Assisted Living Facilty? They could confirm the guy is Autistic and has no idea what is going on....and the other guy is an employee trying to help him. Seriously, in a stand off...no one can making a ****ing phone call?!?!?

Shoot/Don't Shoot

Hell no

There is video last year in LA of a white woman who stole a car and put officers on a police chase. She crashed, got out of the car and started dancing to the Future and Drake song "Where Ya At" and ignored everything the officers said. It almost looked staged.

No shots fired.

I am reminded of the Church shooter, and that they apparently took him to grab a whopper jr with fries and a shake basically.

[The Sisko]

This is a horrific event.  It doesn't necessarily have to be part of some national movement of cops shooting black people for sport.

 

The cop should and certainly will face discipline for this.

Most likely, he says he didn't intend to fire and it was just a tragic accident. So yes, poor baby might have to take a couple of weeks off - with pay. Maybe if they're really feeling like being tough they might actually *GASP* fire him so he can go get another gig as a cop in the next town over. See, the system works.

 

Except that there are two guys.  One is a black guy flat on his back with his hands in the air.  The other is a white guy with what may be, might be, could be a weapon in his hand.  And they shoot the black guy.   God only knows why.  But for that reason alone, it's going to fit the current national narrative.

 

As the woman in the video said, "Why they shoot the black guy and not the fat guy?"

This was my first question. You think one guy has a gun and you shoot the other guy with his hands up. Seriously?

 

I want to say it wouldn't but I watched a cop shoot Andrew Thomas, a white guy, crawling out of his car after an accident and then lie to his dispatcher on camera. The officer ignored the woman that was thrown from the car that was alive at the time. He faced no charges because he fired accidentally, according to prosecutor.

We've all read about John Geer, or should have, who was shot by fairfax county police with his hands up. The shooter in that instance was found guilty.... and released from prison a week later.

Daniel Shaver, another white guy, was shot while being made to crawl towards officers for the great sin of trying to keep his shorts from falling off. He was unarmed, complying with police and not at all combative. In fact, he was crying and begging officers not to shoot him at the time.

So to answer your question, yes I could see Charles Kinsey being shot by police if he was white, despite doing everything he could to avoid being shot. It's happened before.

Side not: Charles Kinsey may have saved that autistic boys life.

This is not saying "All Lives Matter" or anything so trite. My point is that while black Americans face the brunt of police violence and racial bias, the problem with police shooting is not limited to them. White privilege only reduces your odds of getting shot wrongly, but it does not eliminate it.

Everyone has an interest in this issue.

I hope you dropped the mic after posting that.

[TheGreatBuzz]

Another wonderful day in Guntopia.......

 

~Bang

I was wondering when you would be around to turn this into a gun control thread.  I was starting to get worried about you.

[Jumbo]

Of course, this was discussed at one of my workplaces this morning. It looks like what it looks like at this point---another, near-tragic, incident raising serious questions. I am going to co-opt  it for just this post. It very rarely gets discussed in major public venues, but there are tens of thousands of social workers and mental health workers who go into dangerous places to help distressed individuals and communities routinely and many are assaulted and even killed every year.

 

These are generally people who have had to work/study hard, face very demanding tasks (in these environments especially,) are subject to lawsuits, abuse, and often are working in severe conditions, for fairly low pay and meager benefits...and do so unarmed and alone.

 

I am grateful to know so many of these people. 

[stevenaa]

So your view is that police fear and distrust of black men has only cropped up in the last few weeks?

 

I don't think I implied that.   Let's face it,  if your a white cop,  and there has been some targeted shootings against police, by black men associated with (in the twisted minds of the shooters) mistreatment and shootings by white cops of black suspects,  your concern is amped up a couple notches.  It's irrational given the number of encounters with suspects vs. a couple shootings.  But the reality is for many it will cause additional fear.    Most of these guys don't go to work in the morning with shooting a black man,  or anyone for that matter,  a primary goal.  Most just want to do some god and make it home to their family safe.   Like any large group or organization, the outliers all too often color the perception of the larger group. 

[PeterMP]

Of course, this was discussed at one of my workplaces this morning. It looks like what it looks like at this point, and another tragedy raising serious questions. I am going to co-opt  it for just this post. It very rarely gets discussed in major public venues, but there are tens of thousands of social workers and mental health workers who go into dangerous places to help distressed individuals and communities routinely and many are assaulted and even killed every year.

 

These are generally people who have had to work/study hard, face very demanding tasks (in these environments especially,) are subject to lawsuits, abuse, and often are working in severe conditions, for fairly low pay and meager benefits...and do so unarmed and alone.

 

I am grateful to know so many of these people. RIP Mr. Kinsey, and my thoughts are with your family, friends, and clients.

 

Just to double down, I have two sister-in-laws that work in social work.  I'm not sure there jobs are any less dangerous than the cops in the areas they work, and I'll guarantee you they get paid a lot less, especially when you start taking into account benefits than the local cops.

[Bang]

So is it targeted shootings, or the fact that 300 million guns out there means cops have to assume everyone is armed? (and citizens mistake toy trucks for guns)

 

thank again, sales lobby.

Ultimately this is the cop's fault, the training's fault, and behind it ll, the lying sack of **** sales lobby that have scared so many guns into existence that a toy truck gets a man who is protecting a mentally challenged person shot when he literally could not be in a more compliant position.

I do not chalk this up to racism. I chalk it up to the damn gun culture and paranoia caused by the lobby greedily putting everyone's lives and the stability of or countryvat risk.. basically by screaming at us that all of our lives and the stability of our country are at risk.

 

For money.

 

Re-think.

Feel shame.

 

~Bang

[PeterMP]

This was my first question. You think one guy has a gun and you shoot the other guy with his hands up. Seriously?

 

I just want to point out again, I wouldn't put much stock in who got shot given the story so far.  If 3 shots were fired, only 1 hit a person, and you can be pretty sure the cop wasn't aiming for the guys knee.

 

I wouldn't attach much significance to who the bullet hit.

[Bang]

I was wondering when you would be around to turn this into a gun control thread.  I was starting to get worried about you.

 

 

lol...   what in the world is the difference?

 

let me do my part.

 

"prayers to all involved."

 

there.

all better!

 

~Bang! 

[TheGreatBuzz]

lol...   what in the world is the difference?

 

let me do my part.

 

"prayers to all involved."

 

there.

all better!

 

~Bang! 

I was just saying you are pretty good at relating most every issue to a lack of gun control.  I have noticed that you haven't done it in the "sex with animals" thread yet.  You better rush on over there.

[Burgold]

I was just saying you are pretty good at relating most every issue to a lack of gun control. I have noticed that you haven't done it in the "sex with animals" thread yet.  

I thought that was my job. And if you look behind the statistics, half of the animals written about in those threads are attacked at gun point. It's not the transgender in the bathroom we need to be wary of. It's the gun owner at the petting zoo!

[twa]

 

 

I am grateful to know so many of these people. RIP Mr. Kinsey, and my thoughts are with your family, friends, and clients.

 

Is that his ghost on TV? 

http://wsvn.com/news/local/video-shows-moments-before-north-miami-police-shot-unarmed-man/

 

the rest of the post was spot on though

[TradeTheBeal!]

I was just saying you are pretty good at relating most every issue to a lack of gun control.  I have noticed that you haven't done it in the "sex with animals" thread yet.  You better rush on over there.

If he'd been hit by a crossbow we would be having a different conversation, I think.

[Burgold]

Back to being serious. This is a horrific story. It points to a number of trends and wrongs that need to be dealt with. From what we saw and the policeman's defense (Why did you shoot? I don't know.) There is no justification for this. This speaks to the need for better training at the least and probably better hiring practices.

 

I don't even understand why it was necessary for any of the officer's to draw. I really don't.

 

Maybe if there weren't so many loose guns in irresponsible hands, so much reckless violence, and out and out evil... police wouldn't be so skittish and quick to draw and fire?

[Jumbo]

Is that his ghost on TV? 

http://wsvn.com/news/local/video-shows-moments-before-north-miami-police-shot-unarmed-man/

 

the rest of the post was spot on though

 

 

My bad trying to do more than I should have at one time and conflated hm being wounded (which I knew but glitched on) with other incidents under discussion this morning that had fatal endings. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

[Predicto]

This is a horrific event.  It doesn't necessarily have to be part of some national movement of cops shooting black people for sport.

 

 

 

Why did you say "for sport" there?   The problem is too many black people getting shot when they shouldn't be.   By interjecting this "for sport" part, you change the debate and make it look like BLM and everyone else is accusing the police of ganging up and hunting down blacks for fun.

 

Well, it's certainly not hard to defend the police against that allegation.   Clearly the controversy is over.  Everyone should shut up and stop whining.

[Bang]

I was just saying you are pretty good at relating most every issue to a lack of gun control.  I have noticed that you haven't done it in the "sex with animals" thread yet.  You better rush on over there.

 

 

Actually, i'm probably one of the lower profiles in the gun control thread.

i am pro gun ownership.

i am totally and completely anti NRA, and I would think the best thing that could happen in this country is if people wake up to the snow job they have run that has put us in a situation in which toy trucks are assumed to be guns.

 

The answer is either that these cops involved in this stuff are THAT incompetent.. which i have a hard time believing...  or are trained so haphazardly that these situations occur,, which i can see...    or they're racists,, which while entirely possible I don't see a concerted effort to eradicate anyone by using the police as hit squads...  OR they are aware there are so many guns out there,, nearly one for every person in the country.. that they are hair triggered because the threat posed by such numbers is real, and puts them at risk.. leading to accidents, cover-ups, anger, riots.. and nuts who then take it unto themselves.

 

sorry,, but i see a direct line.

I 100% blame the gun sales lobby that has put all of our lives at risk. 

 

if that means "gun control " in yet another thread about an inexplicable shooting..  well.. 

 

Let me make it clearer as to what i think needs to be controlled.

If the next bullet fired in this country goes through Wayne LaPierre's head, it'll be good for everyone.

He has bought our government into submission, he has screamed lies at the top of his lungs and put everyone on edge while arming them to the teeth. as far as I'm concerned, what he and his sales lobby pals have done is tantamount to inciting insurrection and at the very least, enabling it along with their cohorts in media who participate gleefully in scaring the **** out of everyone and convincing everyone that crime is so rampant and the cops can't be trusted that we are seeing inevitable results.

 

I also blame those who swallowed it, and have lined up in terror to buy weapon after weapon because they've been convinced their own government and neighbors are their enemy.

 

Inevitable results.

 

~Bang