"We've been losing. What I want is for us to finish dead last."

[carex]

Anybody who believes that Allen isn't a yes man answer me this question: What else has he been?

 

He worked for Al Davis for a decade until 2004. Al Davis made the picks there. Allen was the guy who managed the salary cap fitting in the guys Davis wanted to add to the team. If Allen can put up with Al Davis I'm sure Snyder is like being on vacation considering Dan has no respect in the league and Allen is fronting for him. He gave him the title Al Davis never would but he's filling the same position. He's an upgraded Vinny Cerrato and obviously better with getting contracts signed. Vinny would've signed Hatcher for 50Mil over 7 years. He's at least the best we've had though.

 

As for drafts that he's been credited with I could post the Bucs drafts from 2004-2008 but lets just say its worse than ours from those years. We at least got Cooley, Sean Taylor, and a few decent years out of Stonehands Rogers and Fred Davis. Bucs fans say Gruden was the man running the drafts anyway which means, that he has 0 real experience doing this while we all know Dan Snyder has 15 years experience drafting players, right? In Dan's mind he's a 15 year vet draft Guru and you know it. We know he was doing it with Cerrato, and then with Gibbs and Cerrato, and after Gibbs left it was back to Snyderatto.

 

 

a yes man is a guy who's every comment to his boss is telling him how brilliant he is, with lot's of sucking up.  Taking a job where your boss overrules you doesn't make you a yes man. 

[Chachie]

Nonsense.....every owner without a franchise QB is courting and wanting that QB....I'm fairly certain that if Shanny said no to the trade, it wouldn't have happened.

 

 

Shanny wanted to stay put and go for Tannehill. He was talked out of it by Snyder and Allen. He also didn't want McNabb. He was talked into it by Snyder and Allen.

 

I'm not saying Griffin was a bad call. I'm just saying no matter who is coaching the Washington Redskins, they don't have final say. The man who does knows NOTHING about football. Get used to sub-mediocrity if you're not already.  

[Cooleyfan1993]

Shanny wanted to stay put and go for Tannehill. He was talked out of it by Snyder and Allen. He also didn't want McNabb. He was talked into it by Snyder and Allen.

 

I'm not saying Griffin was a bad call. I'm just saying no matter who is coaching the Washington Redskins, they don't have final say. The man who does knows NOTHING about football. Get used to sub-mediocrity if you're not already.  

how do you know for sure what shanny wanted to do, or who he was talked into getting? nobody knows. you arent at Redskins Park, are you? the only way you know of that is because dc media says it. they like to make up **** stories though.

[USS Redskins]

2 weeks ago everyone was praising the Shanny drafts and now they are all trade bait...

This team will be dead last in the division, like a stading reservation that they never miss. They will have a high pick but I firmly believe that some unforseen event will transpire (roster violation, tampering or some other misstep) and they will miss out.

Maybe they will be fined for having a racist name and stripped of several picks.

This team is cursed.

Fans have to sit back and watch the mess year after year. 4 year plan, 10 year, 22 year... Whatever... They all just don't work.

The skins are the Bengals, lions, Browns (whichever you prefer) of the 21st century.

The latest night game embarrassment has me really questioning my fan hood and wondering if it is really worth any of my effort anymore.p

A fan for almost 40 years and there is nothing to look forward to each week except another loss/debacle.

[SkinsFTW]

a yes man is a guy who's every comment to his boss is telling him how brilliant he is, with lot's of sucking up.  Taking a job where your boss overrules you doesn't make you a yes man. 

 

Do you mean Ass kisser, brown noser, maybe you're just confused.

 

yes–man noun \ˈyes-ˌman\

: a person (especially a man) who agrees with everything that someone says

 

: one who endorses or supports without criticism every opinion or proposal of an associate or superior

 

If Dan Snyder really wants a guy you know Bruce Allen is doing whatever he can to sign the guy. Maybe he tries to talk him out of some of the moronic ideas but you know there has to be some give and take or else he wont have that job anymore. And the fact still remains that NEITHER of these guys have any proven skill doing this for any team.

 

Dan Snyder is still doing a behind the scenes Jerry Jones and it's OK if some fans are in denial about it lol.

[Aireskoi]

They used to say missing on a franchise QB will set you back 10 years.  I don't know how this applies to today's CBA, but we used 3 years worth of 1st's and a 2nd for what appears (at this moment) to be a miss.

 

We are going to continue to "pay" for the extra picks we gave the Rams for the next few years (assuming we would have picked a quality player at least).

 

We are also going to continue to "pay" for the decision to go against the unwritten rules that didn't really exist during the "uncapped" year (that was really capped for us) for the next few years without the FA's we would have had (assuming any of them panned out) with that 36M cap space.

 

As far as sucking for the best pick, I don't think we have anything to worry about.  We have no talent to compete, and as soon as someone steps up they get hurt.  As soon as we're favored we fail.

 

I do like the coach, but he's about to get ripped to shreds by the media and fans.  I don't blame him for any of this, but I wish he would run 3 downs and punt if we don't get the first.  Seriously, no more passes this year.  Just run the ball.

[Paul Cumberland]

You don't think Orakpo or Kerrigan would be worth picks? I was under the impression that pass rushers are at a premium in today's NFL. (Although the fact that they're both scheduled to be FA, next year, could certainly diminish their value. I could see a lot of teams saying "I'll wait, and see if the Skins manage to sign them, first.")

Actually, we picked up Kerrigan's 2015 option, so he'll be with the team at least 1 more year.  As for Orakpo, he's as good as gone, imho,  unless he somehow gives the home team a significant break in contract demands.   If he doesn't, and all indications are he won't, I believe his replacement is not on the team yet.  Decent OLB's in FA are expensive and we'll have other needs for the cap space that would eat up - such as Morris, Griff and Williams, so if push comes to shove and he leaves, we'll be looking to get his replacement early in the 2015 draft.  And for those who think Murphy is his heir apparent, I believe he's going to take at least one more year to develop and could possibly be Kerrigan's replacement in 2016.

[SkinsFTW]

They used to say missing on a franchise QB will set you back 10 years.  I don't know how this applies to today's CBA, but we used 3 years worth of 1st's and a 2nd for what appears (at this moment) to be a miss.

 

Dude, we cou'dve had Ryan Tannehill, Geno Smith, and Blake Bortles instead of RG3 lol.

 

What a bunch of craptastic QB's that have come out since that year. It's like a decades worth of good-great QB's all came out in 1 year and we paid 3x the price for the most injury prone one of the bunch.

[Thekyle1591]

Dude, we cou'dve had Ryan Tannehill, Geno Smith, and Blake Bortles instead of RG3 lol.

What a bunch of craptastic QB's that have come out since that year. It's like a decades worth of good-great QB's all came out in 1 year and we paid 3x the price for the most injury prone one of the bunch.

Russell Wilson will have his fair share of injuries. Dude is only 5"11. As for Rg3, jury is still very much out on him. Only 24.

[TK]

Shanny wanted to stay put and go for Tannehill. He was talked out of it by Snyder and Allen. He also didn't want McNabb. He was talked into it by Snyder and Allen.

 

This is incorrect.

Playing the likes of Long, Moses & Murphy is a no brainer. Pick em, play em. 

Been there, done that.

 

The one player that everybody loves, but I would absolutely trade is Morris......he's due for a big pay raise this off-season, but despite the yards; he's a limited player.....

Morris won't get big money. Only an elite RB gets big money & Alf ain't elite. RBs even dropped like flys in this years draft.

And I disagree with DC9. Morris would command a 1st or 2nd round pick.

Um, no, Morris wouldn't command a 1st or a 2nd. 

 

The Colts got fleeced in that trade because Lombardi was sober & Irsay ..... well, was being Irsay.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Morris won't get big money. Only an elite RB gets big money & Alf ain't elite. RBs even dropped like flys in this years draft.

Disagree with that. Forte, Lynch, Rice, Stewart and Gore each get between about 6.5 and 7.5 (before Rice was cut, of course). That's big money for RBs and what I would expect Morris to get. 

 

And I agree with the other poster, I would see what his trade value is sooner that later rather than pay it.

[TK]

  And for those who think Murphy is his heir apparent, I believe he's going to take at least one more year to develop and could possibly be Kerrigan's replacement in 2016.

Pay attention cause Paul has it figured out. Murphy, at the time, was picked as Kerrigan insurance as they were still looking to re sign Rak, which would let Kerrigan walk in FA & have Murphy takeover his spot.

[TK]

Disagree with that. Forte, Lynch, Rice, Stewart and Gore each get between about 6.5 and 7.5 (before Rice was cut, of course). That's big money for RBs and what I would expect Morris to get. 

 

And I agree with the other poster, I would see what his trade value is sooner that later rather than pay it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't give a RB with a fumbling problem big money. 

 

 

 

Unless you're Vinny.

[War Paint]

Pay attention cause Paul has it figured out. Murphy, at the time, was picked as Kerrigan insurance as they were still looking to re sign Rak, which would let Kerrigan walk in FA & have Murphy takeover his spot.

Our FO would rather have Orakpo than Kerrigan?   We are more inept than I thought.

[clskinsfan]

Pay attention cause Paul has it figured out. Murphy, at the time, was picked as Kerrigan insurance as they were still looking to re sign Rak, which would let Kerrigan walk in FA & have Murphy takeover his spot.

 

If this is true. I am astounded how awful we are are rating players. kerrigan has clearly been the better player since we drafted him.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Would be interesting to go back and pull up some of the game day threads from the first 9 games of 2012 (especially the panthers game). I would bet some of the same people calling it a year now were also giving up back then. And were also in the Nats thread after a slow April. And in the wizards thread after the wiz their 2-7 start.

I wanted Chip Kelly at the bye week of 2012. I thought the team was broken and then we went on to win 7 straight games. That was awesome and very fun. But since our division clinching win in 2012, we have lost 17 of our last 21 games and fired a coach. Looking back, maybe I wasn't necessarily wrong in wanting the plug pulled in year 3 of Shanahan.

There's a difference between becoming a contender and being a team that bubbles up once in a while to win some games and sneak into the playoffs. I've experienced a decade of the former and two decades of the latter. We have a long way to go.

[rskin72]

Must admit that I got a good laugh out of some of your posts Zoony. 

 

So we tank the season....and what is the grand prize at the end of the year?  Jameis Winston?  I have already heard that we should consider ourselves in that sweepstakes (Jason Whitlock on PTI Friday). 

 

IF we were ever going to tank a season it should have been '12 and we would have had Luck AND our draft picks.  What is the pot of gold at the end of the '14 suck season that you propose?

[Larry]

Disagree with that. Forte, Lynch, Rice, Stewart and Gore each get between about 6.5 and 7.5 (before Rice was cut, of course). That's big money for RBs and what I would expect Morris to get. 

 

And I agree with the other poster, I would see what his trade value is sooner that later rather than pay it.

You don't give a RB with a fumbling problem big money.

Unless you're Vinny.

He mentioned 5 players. Let's look at "touches per fumble". (I'n going to nfl.com, and looking at (Rushing attempts + receptions)/fumble. Note that this might hurt Morris, because he pretty much doesn't have any receptions. But I feel like not counting receptions would skew the stat in Morris' favor.)

Big number is better.

Ray Rice: 200

Lynch: 88

Morris: 70

Forte: 122

Stewart: 77

Gore: 77

Observing that, while Morris is at the bottom of that stat, he's certainly in the same league as two of them.

(He has considerably smaller numbers than them, because he's has a much shorter career. OTOH, that also means he's a lot younger.)

[HAILSKINSNYC]

Anybody who believes that Allen isn't a yes man answer me this question: What else has he been?

 

He worked for Al Davis for a decade until 2004. Al Davis made the picks there. Allen was the guy who managed the salary cap fitting in the guys Davis wanted to add to the team. If Allen can put up with Al Davis I'm sure Snyder is like being on vacation considering Dan has no respect in the league and Allen is fronting for him. He gave him the title Al Davis never would but he's filling the same position. He's an upgraded Vinny Cerrato and obviously better with getting contracts signed. Vinny would've signed Hatcher for 50Mil over 7 years. He's at least the best we've had though.

 

As for drafts that he's been credited with I could post the Bucs drafts from 2004-2008 but lets just say its worse than ours from those years. We at least got Cooley, Sean Taylor, and a few decent years out of Stonehands Rogers and Fred Davis. Bucs fans say Gruden was the man running the drafts anyway which means, that he has 0 real experience doing this while we all know Dan Snyder has 15 years experience drafting players, right? In Dan's mind he's a 15 year vet draft Guru and you know it. We know he was doing it with Cerrato, and then with Gibbs and Cerrato, and after Gibbs left it was back to Snyderatto.

 

I don't believe Dan is picking the players.   I think Allen works with the scouting department and coaches to pick players.  I also think Allen picked the coach.

 

I'm not exactly sure how Bruce is a "yes man"

Shanny wanted to stay put and go for Tannehill. He was talked out of it by Snyder and Allen. He also didn't want McNabb. He was talked into it by Snyder and Allen.

 

I'm not saying Griffin was a bad call. I'm just saying no matter who is coaching the Washington Redskins, they don't have final say. The man who does knows NOTHING about football. Get used to sub-mediocrity if you're not already.  

 

Shanny had final say on all decisions.   If he was forced, he could have quit and collected the money.    Shanny is 100% responsible for the four years he was here

[Rufus T Firefly]

What Larry said. I was starting to research it, but he's better and quicker than me (and more handsome, no doubt)

[Thirtyfive2seven]

This is what you get when you have GM/owner combo that can't leave the franchise alone to people who know how to manage football.  Why?  Fired Shannan... Great.  But left Haslett?  WTF FOR???  WHY???!?!?! ON GOD'S GREEN ****ING EARTH WOULD YOU DO THAT?  WHY KEEP ANYONE FROM THAT **** STAFF?  The defense was ****ing TERRIBLE!  News flash the defense is still ****ing terrible and now you are sans your BEST CB... for the year?  LOLOLOL  We are ****ed.  1-5 I'll bet just about anything on it.

[Larry]

BTW, when I was gathering those stats, interesting trivia:

Frank Gore, right now, for his career, has

Rushes: 2222

Receptions: 333

Fumbles: 33

[Rufus T Firefly]

This is what you get when you have GM/owner combo that can't leave the franchise alone to people who know how to manage football.  Why?  Fired Shannan... Great.  But left Haslett?  WTF FOR???  WHY???!?!?! ON GOD'S GREEN ****ING EARTH WOULD YOU DO THAT?  WHY KEEP ANYONE FROM THAT **** STAFF?  The defense was ****ing TERRIBLE!  News flash the defense is still ****ing terrible and now you are sans your BEST CB... for the year?  LOLOLOL  We are ****ed.  1-5 I'll bet just about anything on it.

They didn't fire Haslett at the time because they knew Jay Gruden was going to be the head coach and he had worked with him before. They likely knew Gruden wanted to keep him.

[Destino]

I think some of you guys are really under-appreciative of Alfred. I don't believe guys like him grow on trees and you can just plug-n-play any ole RB and get the same return. He's tough, durable, good vision and can break tackles with the best of them. I hope he's a Redskin for long time personally.

 

I agree.  Consider how many running backs have been drafted the same year and since that haven't done as well has Alfred despite this teams horrible passing game over the same span.  First we heard that he was benefiting from the read option, but when it went away, Alfred did not.  He and Gracon are the only two consistent players on offense. 

 

It would be an entirely Redskins thing to do, to either trade him or let him walk in free agency.  Maybe we can draft some more defensive backs because that's worked out so brilliantly and lead to so many championships with the pick we get for him. 

[Wyvern]

I am against any automatic assumption of failure, so I reject those 'declaring' that the Skins are automatically 1-5. For sure, the Skins won't be favored, but the games still have to be played.

I'm even more opposed to those who are hoping that the team fails for the rest of the season, and winds up 1-15. They suggest tossing the vets, playing the rookies, and backups, trading starters for picks, and losing the rest of the way out ... for that all-coveted drafting position. Rinse, rebuild, repeat ...until we finally get it right. ...smh

This is a team transitioning under a new coach. There are a lot of young players on this team still developing into their game at the NFL level. Since the team will be relying on those younger players as the core of future Skins teams, I wouldn't wish that those players wind up developing a tradition of losing. Even with a losing record, I'd be hoping there was progress made, and reasons to have hope for the next season.

Going 1-15 wouldn't help those players, it would just create pressure to replace everyone, because they'd be considered "losers." Frankly, there is a decent core of talent on this team, and while I'm certain there will be turnover in the next offseason -- the team doesn't need to be blown up to start over.

A bad loss to the Giants, doesn't automatically mean that ALL the Skins players are worthless or are going to turn out to be failures.

To keep the current development progress going, this team is going to have to learn to overcome adversity ...and it irks me that some fans are actually hoping they won't be able to do that.