Tunisian Revolution and the Middle East--And Now, The Withdrawal From Afghanistan (M.E.T.)

[Llevron]

24 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

BTW -Everyone wants to find someone to blame.  And yes- There is def blame to go around (Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden) all had their part.

 

But lets not forget the true responsible administration. Reagan.  

Prior to 1978 Afghanistan was pretty westernized and a hot tourist spot for Hippies.  Then there were disagreements among different fractions of communist.

Russia went in to prop up the Government, AND to stop Religious zealots from taking control. 

Russia was trying to have a communist, but Western Secular country. You know- basicly the same thing we wanted for the last 20 years.  

We could have stayed out.  We could have looked the other way. We could have even supported pro-democracy movement.

But the only ones fighting were the ultra religious and Reagan saw a great chance to kill Russians and funded and armed the Mujahideens - completely ignoring their ideology.   All Americans knew was they were killing Russians sooo - lets help them!! (See Rambo III).

 

THAT was the problem. They WON.  Became the Taliban...and here we are.  

 

 

Can you provide links where I can read about this? I googled it, and have seen enough to know you didn't just make it up. But I would like a source I trust going into detail if you have one. This is the first I ever heard of this (not that i typically would be looking for this info anyway) 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Llevron

[TMK9973]

13 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Can you provide links where I can read about this? I googled it, and have seen enough to know you didn't just make it up. But I would like a source I trust going into detail if you have one. This is the first I ever heard of this (not that i typically would be looking for this info anyway) 

Sure. But what part?

 

History of the Taliban

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/18/this-history-of-the-taliban

 

But there is other history of course.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie_trail

 

The Hippie trail that went through Afghanistan

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/weekinreview/18bumiller.html

 

Afghanistan as it was in the late 70's when it was communist but  Western

 

And of course -Good history of the war in the 80's where the US helped the group that would become the Taliban.  

 

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-islamic-state-group-afghanistan-europe-middle-east-70451c485d46908ef5c6a83a1de9f0f6

 

 

2 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

Sure. But what part?

 

History of the Taliban

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/18/this-history-of-the-taliban

 

But there is other history of course.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie_trail

 

The Hippie trail that went through Afghanistan

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/weekinreview/18bumiller.html

 

Afghanistan as it was in the late 70's when it was communist but  Western

 

And of course -Good history of the war in the 80's where the US helped the group that would become the Taliban.  

 

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-islamic-state-group-afghanistan-europe-middle-east-70451c485d46908ef5c6a83a1de9f0f6

 

 

The last link is the one i meant to post.  Jut the timeline.  But 1983 and 1986 were big.  83 when Reagan called them freedom fighters. And 1986 when the US developed and gave them shoulder portable surface to air anti aircraft weapons, which changed everything.  

Edited August 18, 2021 by TMK9973

[Corcaigh]

I think it’s a little more complex than that. You also have the Northern Alliance and other anti-Taliban groups. It will be interesting to see if they reform.

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia also had major roles in funding the Taliban. 
 

Maybe Afghanistan is going back to civil war pre2001.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Corcaigh

[Larry]

Oh, I've been saying for decades that a whole lot of ours, and the world's, problems, were caused because US policy was that we would train Satan himself in how to torture people, as long as Satan swore that he wasn't communist. 
 

I'll point at the Taliban, al Qaeda, and Iran, as examples. Probably Saudi. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Larry

[88Comrade2000]

I am surprised the Taliban are letting people out. They got revenge on their minds. They don't want any people who cooperated with us to live. Why would they let those people evacuate?  

[PeterMP]

More fundamentally Reagan made security agreements with the Saudis (to sell them high tech US weapons cheaply and protect them from the Soviets) in exchange for them to increase oil production that hurt the US oil industry and slowed exploration and research in the US oil field.  He also eliminated energy and fuel efficiency standards and eliminated many alternative energy programs/research.

 

The combination gave the Saudis the confidence, security, and money to export their extreme Islamic views.  Which clearly lead to many of the problems we have today and was clearly anti-democracy by the early 1980s.

 

Obama has talked and written about how the Islam practiced in Indonesia today is not what it was when he lived there as a kid.  That is generally true through Asia and Africa due to the actions of the Saudis and enabled by Reagan.

 

Reagan practiced myopic policies that were poorly supported by evidence including national security.

 

23 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

I am surprised the Taliban are letting people out. They got revenge on their minds. They don't want any people who cooperated with us to live. Why would they let those people evacuate?  

 

Possibly because they dont have revenge on their mind?

 

When you have a conclusion (they have revenge on their mind) and data that disagrees with your conclusion, the most likely thing us your conclusion is wrong.

Edited August 18, 2021 by PeterMP

[NickyJ]

10 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

I am surprised the Taliban are letting people out. They got revenge on their minds. They don't want any people who cooperated with us to live. Why would they let those people evacuate?  

The rest of the world is watching right now. Claim to let a few pass through, kick out the journalists when the Mr. Akhundzada Rides the Bumper Cars sideshow ends, and then bring terrorism to the streets like they have in the rural areas already.

 

Seeing people riding bumper cars with AK47's and RPG's strapped to their backs is humorous to me from half a world away. But I'm not fooled for a second that what happens in the cities will be any different from what happens in the countryside.

[TradeTheBeal!]

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

Can you provide links where I can read about this? I googled it, and have seen enough to know you didn't just make it up. But I would like a source I trust going into detail if you have one. This is the first I ever heard of this (not that i typically would be looking for this info anyway) 

this book is very good on the subject

Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and bin Laden, from the Soviet Invas ion to September 10, 2001 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P2A43Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_5S9M5TA1TF0N38H6XJA0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

i… I have trouble with the names so who did what specifically is very fuzzy for me, but I was able to track the general ideas of what was going on. Great book. His sequel is also apparently very good. 

[Jumbo]

3 hours ago, Xameil said:

We won't learn from it because instead of "we learn history so we are not doomed to repeat it" we have become we learn history and delete what we don't like and is offensive to us because we don't like our feelings hurt...

 

 

dude

 

along with maybe reassessing your sense of humor which some of your fellow stadium posters are  noting only you seem to appreciate, you need to know the next time you land in a serious tailgate thread to make this kind of vapid whiny off-topic post, you will be whacked  

[Xameil]

20 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

dude

 

along with maybe reassessing your sense of humor which some of your fellow stadium posters are  noting only you seem to appreciate, you need to know the next time you land in a serious tailgate thread to make this kind of vapid whiny off-topic post, you will be whacked  

Lol I've noticed some are..too serious...but maybe I just worded this wrong. But I do feel we won't learn because we don't regard history as a learning tool.

I didn't mean for it to sound whiny. I apologize if it did. 

 

[Jumbo]

23 minutes ago, Xameil said:

Lol I've noticed some are..too serious...but maybe I just worded this wrong. But I do feel we won't learn because we don't regard history as a learning tool.

I didn't mean for it to sound whiny. I apologize if it did. 

 

 

amigo, it was you (self-indulgently) doing your regular butthurt shtick on your "anti pc/wokeness" issues, and it's  an invite to a testy off topic digression on that matter

 

you do the same schtick in the stadium sometimes fwiw,  and that, btw, is injecting a personal socio-political stance into the stadium and that thread topic, and anyone doing that is open to severe beatings and intensive ridicule or even a hi there 😵

 

 

just fyi  

 

 

 

other than that, everything's fine, don't worry, you're still awesome and everyone loves you 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Xameil]

9 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

amigo, it was you (self-indulgently) doing your regular butthurt shtick on your "anti pc/wokeness" issues, and it's  an invite to a testy off topic digression on that matter

 

you do the same schtick in the stadium sometimes fwiw,  and that, btw, is injecting a personal socio-political stance into the stadium and that thread topic, and anyone doing that is open to severe beatings and intensive ridicule or even a hi there 😵

 

 

just fyi  

 

 

 

other than that, everything's fine, don't worry, you're still awesome and everyone loves you 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lol gotcha

thanks...now where's the damn beer mug clinking emoji

[Barry.Randolphe]

12 hours ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

How are you only seeing men in that photo? I see women and children all over. 
Signed,

A Woman

 

I said ~75% men. Look in the middle of the picture - it's a sea of men.

[skinsmarydu]

4 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

 

I said ~75% men. Look in the middle of the picture - it's a sea of men.

I was going to point that out earlier, but ...you know...that reading comprehension thing just misses us all sometimes.  I'm guilty as well, not gonna lie. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

39 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

 

I said ~75% men. Look in the middle of the picture - it's a sea of men.

 

32 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

I was going to point that out earlier, but ...you know...that reading comprehension thing just misses us all sometimes.  I'm guilty as well, not gonna lie. 

And @thegreaterbuzzette aren’t you all taking some liberties in assuming you know how each of them identifies?

[TradeTheBeal!]

I demand more raw Twitter vid of Afghani Incel doofus having a landing gear dance party on the Kabul runway.

 

Feed my outrage.

[skinsmarydu]

Holy ****, Rachel's A block is ... I don't want to remember this.

I will. 

Everyone should. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

So Republicans vote openly and loudly against feeding/assisting the poor in our country, but they suddenly care about the poor people of Afghanistan? **** outta here.

[Renegade7]

Taliban looking like the dog that finally caught its tail.

 

I'm not even sure what best case scenario would be right now, trying to get belt and road to go through there?  

 

Seriously, they are the government now, they still part of Paris Accords? Or they gonna isolate, like leave the UN and be exactly what got them kicked out? I dont even remember how they participated on world stage pre 9/11 we were over there so fast.

[clskinsfan]

Intelligence agencies starting to debunk the "we werent told Afghanistan could fall so fast" narrative. Biden himself assured the American people a month ago that is was impossible. Then went on ABC this morning and said it was inevitable. Which one was it Joe?

[CjSuAvE22]

Lets see how this rolls out, I will give Biden credit if he can get all the Americans we have left over there out safely what's done is done can't be changed but at this point American lives should come first imo. Then we can worry about refugees and whatever else is left behind

Edited August 19, 2021 by CjSuAvE22

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

 

[China]

Afghan refugee debate fractures GOP

 

Republicans are united in their belief that President Joe Biden has botched the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan. But on the question of the thousands of Afghan refugees looking to flee to the United States, a schism has emerged within the party, pitting immigration restrictionists against those who view the resettlement of individuals and families in the U.S. as a moral charge.

 

With the debate featuring some elements of the party’s familiar divide between the base and the establishment — and former President Donald Trump’s position on the issue unclear — some Republicans see the making of an issue that could reverberate in next year’s primary elections.

 

“It’s the same fault line in the party about whether we should be there or not, the neo-cons vs. anti-interventionists, the great divide in the party,” said Roger Stone, one of Trump’s longtime advisers.

 

Stone said the temperature over the issue will only rise as more people flee Afghanistan and as the 2022 midterms draw closer.

 

“Let’s see how it’s going to go in the primaries,” Stone said. “The grassroots responded in 2016 to Trump’s message that it was time to bring our troops home from these endless foreign wars where our national interest was not clear.”

 

Click on the link for the rest

[TradeTheBeal!]

You’d think that, if Trump was willing to release 5000 Taliban members from prison and host Taliban leadership at Camp David and sprain his arm patting himself on the back about it, that he might’ve sketched out a plan for how to handle the inevitable migration of Afghanis.

 

But I guess he dropped the ball on that.  Very out of character for the “deal maker”.