Tunisian Revolution and the Middle East--And Now, The Withdrawal From Afghanistan (M.E.T.)

[Cooked Crack]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I feel like this whole **** show is confirmation that Biden isn’t going to run in 2024.

We're not going to be talking about this in 2022 let alone 2024. The only thing I could see maybe bubbling up is refugee talk from right wingers but most people will move on from this. If Biden decides not to run it won't be based on Afghanistan. A topic most Americans agree with even if the optics of withdrawal really sucks.

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

 

[Larry]

1 hour ago, EmirOfShmo said:

Didn't see this posted. Good read. 

 

  

The Sun: FRIENDLY FIRE US bombs its own Syrian base to prevent weapons falling into enemy hands after withdrawing troops

 

 

[hail2skins]

6 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Biden will get skewered over the way he has handled this and rightfully so.

 

The right has no problem getting people to believe outright lies, it shouldn’t be hard for them to sell something that has an element of truth. 
 

Looking at the map, and the gerrymandering, and the new voter laws...it’s hard to feel anything but depressed as a liberal in this country. Biden could ill afford theses kinds of mistakes. Independents have already changed their tune. God help us.

Not related to Afghanistan per se, but I like reading Tom Nichols on Twitter and he has a book out called "Our Own Worst Enemy," which I think perfectly describes the state we're in these days.  I haven't read the book, but if you follow Nichols, one of his common themes is that we've become very spoiled and bored.  People who have high paying jobs for doing relatively little still complain how they are getting screwed over.  Yesterday I was talking with one of my stepdaughter's friends and he was talking about how his parents are now in watching Fox News mode and yelling at the TV.  I've heard that from numerous people.

 

I consider myself to be right-leaning, but absolutely can't stand the amount of constant griping from people.  It seems like overall, we no longer have the ability to be happy.

[China]

On 3/26/2021 at 9:30 PM, China said:

 

 

Ever Given: Cargo ship returns through Suez Canal it blocked

 

The huge container ship that blocked the Suez Canal in March - disrupting global trade - has passed back through the waterway without incident.

 

The SCA, in a series of tweets, said the Ever Given was escorted through the 193km (120-mile) canal by two tugboats and senior SCA guides.

 

It was one of 26 ships that travelled from north to south through the canal on Friday, while 36 ships sailed in the opposite direction, the SCA added, hailing the waterway as the "shortest and fastest navigational route linking the east with the west".

 

The Ever Given, one of the world's largest container ships, had been delivering its 18,300 containers to Rotterdam, Felixstowe and Hamburg and is now travelling to China.

 

Following its release, the SCA sought compensation for the Ever Given's Japanese owner Shoei Kisen for the cost of the salvage operation, damage to the canal's banks and other losses.

 

The terms of the deal were not disclosed but Egypt had eventually settled on a $550m (£397m) demand.

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by China

[clskinsfan]

On 8/21/2021 at 12:43 PM, tshile said:

The thing that must be Afghan led was decided without the Afghan government participating. 
 

just us an the taliban. 
 

Just par for the course of that administration 

A rep was sent to meet with the Afghan government the day after the meeting with the Taliban. The Afghan govt would not take the meeting. The plan was to get an agreement from what they thought would be the the hard side, the Taliban. And then get an agreement from our allies in Afghanistan. But they wouldnt have it. Look I am not going to sit here and claim Trump did it right. Because he clearly has blame in this situation. But the withdrawal plan from Biden and more specifically the Generals in charge is a clown show. There is no other way to put it. You have 10's of thousands of American Citizens stranded there. Biden had to send troops back in to try to rescue them. It is pathetic. And the icing on the cake is the fact that the Taliban now has over 2 Billion dollars worth of our weapons. Including 600000 assault rifles, Blackhawk helicopters, Humvee's, night vision and the list goes on and on. It is unforgivable that our troops were removed prior to those weapons being secured and either brought home or destroyed. Unforgivable. 

[hail2skins]

One of my questions regarding the weaponry: weren't we going to have to leave at least some of it behind to equip the Afghan army?

 

Otherwise, no argument that this withdrawal in my eyes has been a clown show. The fact that we seem to just be getting around to including other facilities besides Doha for processing gives the appearance that we're just making it up as we go along.

[NickyJ]

I'm sure it's been posted before, maybe even recently, but I just finished watching through this and I recommend it for anyone wondering what Afghan Army was like. Fair warning, it's sickening what went on there, including Afghan commanders raping children with no one doing anything about it. The U.S. military was officially just shadowing them to give suggestions and save them if they got in trouble in battle.

 

It's from 8 years ago, but considering Afghanistan is the same as it was a hundred years ago, I doubt it's any less accurate.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by NickyJ

[Barry.Randolphe]

Thank you for posting this...I've seen bits before, but this was the most in-depth version I've seen....it is so disappointing to see how ****ty the majority of their forces are even after all the training. We should have ended the support not too long after this video was produced. They're completely hopeless.

[The Sisko]

19 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Biden will get skewered over the way he has handled this and rightfully so.

 

The right has no problem getting people to believe outright lies, it shouldn’t be hard for them to sell something that has an element of truth. 
 

Looking at the map, and the gerrymandering, and the new voter laws...it’s hard to feel anything but depressed as a liberal in this country. Biden could ill afford theses kinds of mistakes. Independents have already changed their tune. God help us.

I’ve said it before but I never saw the Biden win as a “victory” but as a reprieve for non-Muricuns to GTFO while the getting is good. We’re working on permanent residency in another country, just in case. If we like it, we might even retire there.

 

11 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

A rep was sent to meet with the Afghan government the day after the meeting with the Taliban. The Afghan govt would not take the meeting. The plan was to get an agreement from what they thought would be the the hard side, the Taliban. And then get an agreement from our allies in Afghanistan. But they wouldnt have it. Look I am not going to sit here and claim Trump did it right. Because he clearly has blame in this situation. But the withdrawal plan from Biden and more specifically the Generals in charge is a clown show. There is no other way to put it. You have 10's of thousands of American Citizens stranded there. Biden had to send troops back in to try to rescue them. It is pathetic. And the icing on the cake is the fact that the Taliban now has over 2 Billion dollars worth of our weapons. Including 600000 assault rifles, Blackhawk helicopters, Humvee's, night vision and the list goes on and on. It is unforgivable that our troops were removed prior to those weapons being secured and either brought home or destroyed. Unforgivable. 

The interesting thing about this to me is whether the infusion of AR-15-style weapons causes the Taliban and eventually other groups to move away from the AK-47s. It’s a much superior weapon. The same may end up being true of night vision and other military technology we left behind. Obviously, In the long run, that would be a bad thing.

Edited August 23, 2021 by The Sisko

[tshile]

Is it a superior weapon for their conditions?

 

I thought the huge draw for it for them was how easily/cheaply they could get them and how well they held up in their environment (including their capability to maintain them)?

 

isn’t the ar-15 significantly more sensitivity to all that?

 

im also confused as to why we would outfit military people with a civilian version of a military weapon as opposed to… the military weapon itself? But I’m not really up to speed on how we outfit the Afghan security forces/army and why….

[TheGreatBuzz]

12 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

im also confused as to why we would outfit military people with a civilian version of a military weapon as opposed to… the military weapon itself? But I’m not really up to speed on how we outfit the Afghan security forces/army and why….

 

He did say "AR-15 style" so I'm assuming he meant M-4s and isn't terribly familiar with terminology.

[clskinsfan]

16 hours ago, NickyJ said:

I'm sure it's been posted before, maybe even recently, but I just finished watching through this and I recommend it for anyone wondering what Afghan Army was like. Fair warning, it's sickening what went on there, including Afghan commanders raping children with no one doing anything about it. The U.S. military was officially just shadowing them to give suggestions and save them if they got in trouble in battle.

 

It's from 8 years ago, but considering Afghanistan is the same as it was a hundred years ago, I doubt it's any less accurate.

 

 

Thanks for this. What a **** show. And it goes back to my earlier posts about not being able to help people that wont to be helped. 

[China]

 

[Cooked Crack]

Bunch of clowns.

[goskins10]

In response to @tshile

 

5 hours ago, tshile said:

If instead were talking about al qaeda being back to operating inside Afghanistan openly and without impunity… I don’t know. All the sudden the criticism from the right that required mental gymnastics to even approach making sense, becomes spot on accurate criticism (even if they themselves have no actual working alternative solution and never did)

 

 

I think the bolded was always going to happen no matter when or how we pulled out. I know trump and the right convinced themselves that al qaeda was eliminated, that just was never true. I never believed that al qaeda was even weakened maybe jsut a little. But still was operating just not quite as brazen. But i do not pretend to know all the details either. SO maybe they were basically neutered and this gives them life. I just have a hard time believing that. 

 

But more to my point, the people it matters to mostly are not changing their support either way. if it is nit this, there will be something else the right will do their mental gymnastics on to try and make Biden look bad. 

 

Let me be clear, I too wish there had been more of a plan - or a better plan to save those who supported us. It is pretty ****ty the people we have left high and dry even if we do go back and get them. 

[Renegade7]

Should I care if a terrorist group sets up a training camp in Afghanistan because we've already said we'll bomb it like we treat other countries? How many do we operate drone strikes in now?

Edited August 25, 2021 by Renegade7

[88Comrade2000]

Fox is on in lobby at dialysis. They are complaining about how Joe left Afghanistan to the Taliban. Uh; who negotiated with the Taliban and let Taliban prisoners out?

 

 

Also; in 2021, why are there so many Americans in Afghanistan?

[TradeTheBeal!]

 

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

Should I care if a terrorist group sets up a training camp in Afghanistan because we've already said we'll bomb it like we treat other countries? How many do we operate drone strikes in now?

Sort of depends on what it leads to, doesn’t it?

 

we didn’t really care until 9/11 happened. 
 

I imagine the bar is higher now, but I would imagine a bar still exists somewhere. 

[Renegade7]

15 minutes ago, tshile said:

Sort of depends on what it leads to, doesn’t it?

 

we didn’t really care until 9/11 happened. 
 

I imagine the bar is higher now, but I would imagine a bar still exists somewhere. 

 

Ya, we seem to be pretty pro-active about killing our potential threats these days, probably one of the biggest reasons we haven't had another 9/11 since (knocks on wood).  

[hail2skins]

Blinken said about 1500 Americans who want to leave remain.

 

And the initial estimate was that there were about 65000 with SIVs. But I don't think that number included their family members. Some estimate that the number of people that would need to be evacuated would be more like 250k.

 

Should be an interesting next few days as the deadline approaches. I hope it gets extended.

[tshile]

Heard an interesting opinion - it’s someone from WTOP that I don’t really have much respect for because often he has very little to add than what is already public, but…

 

he basically said that the taliban is begging for global legitimacy. To be recognized as a legitimate government. 
They can say whatever they want about deadlines but if they interfere with us evacuating people because of an arbitrary deadline, it will crush their ability to gain legitimacy. And they know that. And therefore, in all practicality, we will be able to evacuate whoever we want and the deadline is basically meaningless (so long as it’s clear we’re actively working on evacuations, and not sitting around using it as an excuse to maintain presence)

 

I don’t know how right that is. It makes sense on the one hand. 
 

on the other it’s not like the taliban is a well organized and controlled entity - their leaders can say what they want, all it takes is one dip**** firing an rpg into the airfield and all hell breaks loose. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by tshile

[tshile]

18 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Ya, we seem to be pretty pro-active about killing our potential threats these days, probably one of the biggest reasons we haven't had another 9/11 since (knocks on wood).  

Well. And don’t get me wrong, I’m way out of my league here, I’m just repeating my understanding listening to others…

 

as much as what you’ve said is true, our completely withdrawal (among other things over the last year) kind of kills our intelligence and operations ability in the entire area. 
 

for instance, we have no bases in Afghanistan and we have yet to secure rights to air passage over any neighboring countries. 
 

basically, as it stands, a drone strike in Afghanistan requires us committing an act of war against another country by violating their airspace for a military operation (maybe that’s an overdramatized description?)

 

will that stop us? Well, not necessarily. We went after bin Ladin. And there’s countless other examples. 
 

it certainly creates an interesting scenario. And there will surely be times, or specific presidents, where that issue stops them from doing it. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

3 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Yes, that happened after the media brought attention to the disgrace that was happening there though.