Tunisian Revolution and the Middle East--And Now, The Withdrawal From Afghanistan (M.E.T.)

[clskinsfan]

7 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

I respect Biden for owning this capital L.

Owning it while blaming everyone else. This is a clown show of epic proportions. Add this to a wide open southern border and rampant inflation and Biden has a recipe for political disaster brewing. 

[JCB]

Stay on Tucker’s talking points, by all means. 🙄

[clskinsfan]

6 hours ago, JCB said:

Stay on Tucker’s talking points, by all means. 🙄

The truth is the truth. 

[Ball Security]

8 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Owning it while blaming everyone else. This is a clown show of epic proportions. Add this to a wide open southern border and rampant inflation and Biden has a recipe for political disaster brewing. 

What should he have done about Afghanistan?

 

And there is no wide open Southern border.  Stop it.  Trump built the biggest, most beautiful wall.  And got Mexico to pay for it.

[The 12th Commandment]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

The truth is the truth. 

It's funny they're not crossing into my blue NM, almost as if they're giving the racists in TX and AZ the what for.  We have record employment numbers, record increases in wages, bipartisan spending bills coming out of Congress, a president not lying and saying "it's fake news" when something goes wrong. 

 

Mostly though,  a general sense that a regular decent human being is leading our country instead of a puffed up reality tv star concerned only with his own well being.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Not sure if this has been brought up or discussed, but I'm not sure why we couldn't have lit up the Taliban while they were on the roads to all the different cities in Afghanistan.  IIRC, that's a big reason we kicked the **** out of the Iraqis in the first Gulf War, Saddam was dumb enough to put his troops out on the roads in the wide open and we took advantage of it.

 

I can't believe there weren't any high ranking military officials in the Pentagon last week who didn't think to use this withdrawl as an ambush tactic in order to annihilate the Taliban as they got on the roads in their march to the different cities in Afghanistan.  

[tshile]

9 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Owning it while blaming everyone else. This is a clown show of epic proportions. Add this to a wide open southern border and rampant inflation and Biden has a recipe for political disaster brewing. 

It is possible to be very critical, honestly critical, of Biden 

 

 

however that’s not what you’re doing 😂 

 

7 months into office and he’s to blame for the 20 year war and the 40 years of failed border/immigration policy 😂 

 

On the list of presidents to blame for the war in Afghanistan, Biden is at the bottom. 
 

he’s kind of right. This 20 year war is the fault of a failed mission out in place by bush, continued by Obama and trump. And the fact we’re leaving was put in place by trump. And the failure in the way we left was the Biden administration. 
 

so yeah the war pretty much should be blamed on everyone else. 

[clskinsfan]

14 minutes ago, KAOSkins said:

It's funny they're not crossing into my blue NM, almost as if they're giving the racists in TX and AZ the what for.  We have record employment numbers, record increases in wages, bipartisan spending bills coming out of Congress, a president not lying and saying "it's fake news" when something goes wrong. 

 

Mostly though,  a general sense that a regular decent human being is leading our country instead of a puffed up reality tv star concerned only with his own well being.

Nice try:

July was busiest month for illegal border crossings in 21 years, CBP data shows

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/record-numbers-illegal-border-crossings/2021/08/12/e3d305e2-facd-11eb-b8dd-0e376fba55f2_story.html

[tshile]

I think there’s another thread for the whole l

“I’m scared the immigrants are bringing over covid, but I’m not actually scared of covid so I’m anti-mask and anti-vaccine” stuff

[The 12th Commandment]

43 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Nice try:

July was busiest month for illegal border crossings in 21 years, CBP data shows

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/record-numbers-illegal-border-crossings/2021/08/12/e3d305e2-facd-11eb-b8dd-0e376fba55f2_story.html

I agreed. Just commented they weren't crossing into my state.

 

https://www.lcsun-news.com/story/news/local/new-mexico/2021/08/13/immigration-nm-migrant-encounters-summer-rise-other-states-drop-new-mexico/8123890002/

 

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by KAOSkins

[clskinsfan]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

It is possible to be very critical, honestly critical, of Biden 

 

 

however that’s not what you’re doing 😂 

 

7 months into office and he’s to blame for the 20 year war and the 40 years of failed border/immigration policy 😂 

 

On the list of presidents to blame for the war in Afghanistan, Biden is at the bottom. 
 

he’s kind of right. This 20 year war is the fault of a failed mission out in place by bush, continued by Obama and trump. And the fact we’re leaving was put in place by trump. And the failure in the way we left was the Biden administration. 
 

so yeah the war pretty much should be blamed on everyone else. 

You can obviously blame the war on past Presidents. Biden has been critical of it for a decade. Leaving is the right thing to do. But leaving without a plan is ridiculous. Not to mention 3 weeks ago Biden held a press conference where he ensured the American people that what is happening right now had "no chance" of happening. This is a major failure by the intelligence community (once again. When have they been right in the past 25 years?) and for Biden himself. 

1 minute ago, tshile said:

I think there’s another thread for the whole l

“I’m scared the immigrants are bringing over covid, but I’m not actually scared of covid so I’m anti-mask and anti-vaccine” stuff

I am vaccinated. And made a big post about it in the Covid thread. So you can go ahead and throw that crap out the window. 

[tshile]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

But leaving without a plan is ridiculous

There was a plan. It was just a bad plan. 
 

and as another poster pointed out, it should be considered that evacuating everyone first and publicly declaring the Afghan government and army a failure, most likely puts us in the same place without giving anything a chance. 
 

it now appears the taliban negotiated in secret with local leaders to simply give up, and the local leaders probably agreed because they understood the taliban would win - or at least cause a bloody multi-year civil war that ends with the taliban controlling a huge portion of the country. 
 

there really isn’t anything we can do if after 20 years the people of Afghanistan are not willing to fight for democracy. 
 

and we certainly shouldn’t fight the fight for them. Hell, just helping them is apparently a waste of time/lives/money/equipment. 

4 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Not to mention 3 weeks ago Biden held a press conference where he ensured the American people that what is happening right now had "no chance" of happening. This is a major failure by the intelligence community (once again. When have they been right in the past 25 years?) and for Biden himself. 

The intelligence community, based on what’s public available, has been warning this would happen for a long time if we simply pulled out. 
 

I think you mean to place the blame on the military leaders that created this plan, executed it, and advised the president over 20 years. 
 

bidens failure is in thinking the taliban would uphold the deal the agreed to (a deal trump made btw). But I already addressed why he probably did it the way he did it. 

[tshile]

And from what I can tell based on what’s publicly available, Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden can all share in the blame in putting too much trust in the military and not giving enough credit for the intelligence community. 
 

and you can add Clinton to the list. 
 

because this goes back to the mid-90’s and from the 9/11 commission report and everything I recall since, the intelligence community has raised the alarms, given the warnings, and mostly lost out to military leaders in terms of being listened to. 
 

considering all that, the fact that the intelligence community mostly does their job and stays out of the public fray, and is likely the best intelligence community in the world… I find it surprising how often so many of you quickly throw them under the bus. 
 

(and how many of you think you know what’s going on inside the intelligence community without having a job in, I don’t know, anything even remotely ****ing close to having information about what the intelligence community does and doesn’t do available to you)

Edited August 17, 2021 by tshile

[TradeTheBeal!]

Leaving Afghanistan is good.

Immigration is good.

Our intelligence services are good.

Biden is good.

 

Fox News/fake outrage/Tucker Carlson talking points are not good.

[PeterMP]

9 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Owning it while blaming everyone else. This is a clown show of epic proportions. Add this to a wide open southern border and rampant inflation and Biden has a recipe for political disaster brewing. 

 

I hear people talk about a wide open border, but everybody essentially admits that more people have been arrested this year than in decades.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/07/16/border-patrol-arrests-hit-a-20-year-high-last-month---but-migration-isnt-necessarily-surging-heres-why/?sh=43ec453a70b2

 

I have a hard time reconciling near record levels of arrests with what I would consider wide open border.

 

Can you explain why you think or what you mean by a wide open border?  Maybe you and I have different ideas of what a "wide open border" means.

34 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Nice try:

July was busiest month for illegal border crossings in 21 years, CBP data shows

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/record-numbers-illegal-border-crossings/2021/08/12/e3d305e2-facd-11eb-b8dd-0e376fba55f2_story.html

 

 

Just to be clear that's people detained.  Not actual crossings.  Nobody is claiming that more people crossed the border than in the last 21 years (my link makes the point that we probably aren't seeing an increase in the actual number of people crossing in the last few decades).  We have caught more of them.

 

Another way to represent that same information is that Biden is doing more to catch people crossing the border than in the base so we are catching more of them.

 

It appears that Biden is being very successful at prevent illegal immigration (by detaining them), and you're criticizing him for that success.

 

(Read beyond the headlines.)

Edited August 17, 2021 by PeterMP

[clskinsfan]

12 minutes ago, tshile said:

And from what I can tell based on what’s publicly available, Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden can all share in the blame in putting too much trust in the military and not giving enough credit for the intelligence community. 
 

and you can add Clinton to the list. 
 

because this goes back to the mid-90’s and from the 9/11 commission report and everything I recall since, the intelligence community has raised the alarms, given the warnings, and mostly lost out to military leaders in terms of being listened to. 
 

considering all that, the fact that the intelligence community mostly does their job and stays out of the public fray, and is likely the best intelligence community in the world… I find it surprising how often so many of you quickly throw them under the bus. 
 

(and how many of you think you know what’s going on inside the intelligence community without having a job in, I don’t know, anything even remotely ****ing close to having information about what the intelligence community does and doesn’t do available to you)

The 911 Commission Report absolutely eviscerated the intelligence community. Which led to the creation of the NID. But I agree with you that they had plenty of warning of an imminent attack and were blowing the horn on al Queda in the late 90's. Clinton had a chance to take Bin Laden out if he had acted on their assessment. Not that I think it would have mattered at that point. We left ourselves vulnerable to an attack. And If Bin Laden didnt orchestrate one someone else would have. 

8 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

I hear people talk about a wide open border, but everybody essentially admits that more people have been arrested this year than in decades.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/07/16/border-patrol-arrests-hit-a-20-year-high-last-month---but-migration-isnt-necessarily-surging-heres-why/?sh=43ec453a70b2

 

I have a hard time reconciling near record levels of arrests with what I would consider wide open border.

 

Can you explain why you think or what you mean by a wide open border?  Maybe you and I have different ideas of what a "wide open border" means.

 

 

Just to be clear that's people detained.  Not actual crossings.  Nobody is claiming that more people crossed the border than in the last 21 years.  We have caught more of them.

 

Another way to represent that same information is that Biden is doing more to catch people crossing the border than in the base so we are catching more of them.

 

(Read beyond the headlines.)

This argument is ridiculous. These are only the people we have caught. How many got through without being caught?

10 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Leaving Afghanistan is good.

Immigration is good.

Our intelligence services are good.

Biden is good.

 

Fox News/fake outrage/Tucker Carlson talking points are not good.

Leaving Afghanistan is good. Agreed. But the way they did it was a clown show. 

Immigration is good. Agreed. LEGAL immigration is great and is what this country is founded on. Jumping over our border is not legal immigration. And is illegal.

Our intelligence services are good. Completely disagree. 

Biden is good. At what exactly? Spending the country into complete failure?

 

Fox News is a propaganda network. Just like all MSM. 

[PeterMP]

6 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

This argument is ridiculous. These are only the people we have caught. How many got through without being caught?

 

I don't really know, but I suspect that you don't really know either.

 

(I suspect nobody really knows.)

 

I don't generally base arguments/conclusions on unknown information.

 

Again, I'll ask if there is a near record number of people detained crossing the border illegally, how to conclude the border is wide open?  In the case of a wide open border, wouldn't essentially nobody be detained?

 

(This is getting OT.  There is an immigration thread somewhere.  It might be best to take the conversation there.  But I've seen this idea that the border is "wide open" or that Biden is created "open borders".  And I have hard time reconciling that with the facts, so I was curious if you could explain your logic to me.)

Edited August 17, 2021 by PeterMP

[tshile]

3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

The 911 Commission Report absolutely eviscerated the intelligence community. Which led to the creation of the NID. But I agree with you that they had plenty of warning of an imminent attack and were blowing the horn on al Queda in the late 90's. Clinton had a chance to take Bin Laden out if he had acted on their assessment. Not that I think it would have mattered at that point. We left ourselves vulnerable to an attack. And If Bin Laden didnt orchestrate one someone else would have. 
 

um. I don’t recall the 9/11 commission report eviscerating anyone other than the total lack of communication ability that day, politicians for not taking it seriously, and people not heeding the warnings of the intelligence community. 
 

im pretty sure they took a strong stance on foreigners taking training on how to takeoff and fly but never spending time learning how to land, but I believe they placed the blame on the instructors for not raising the warning flags. I believe one instructor did but the fbi never went anywhere with it?

 

(ironically all in one paragraph you’ve said they were eviscerated, but then said we had plenty of warning - which came from…. Who? 😂)

 

im willing to consider I’m misremembering what the 9/11 commission report said as it’s been a long time since I read it and I make mistakes. 
 

but given your posts so far, including how you choose to falsely assign blame, the links you post that don’t say what you claim they do, etc - I’m willing to bet you just flat out haven’t even read the 9/11 commission report. 

 

3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

This argument is ridiculous. These are only the people we have caught. How many got through without being caught?

 

so you have a problem with the current state of the border being the most detained ever (your link)

 

do you have a link for the most border crossings ever? And by that I mean a link that doesn’t just say it in the headline (then go on to say it’s the most detained ever), but one that actually says the most crossings ever?

 

Bonus points if they actually explain why/how/real data. 

[Cooked Crack]

Y'all really not going to reach this guy. Best to move on.

 

 

[clskinsfan]

Just now, PeterMP said:

 

I don't really know, but I suspect that you don't really know either.

 

(I suspect nobody really knows.)

 

I don't generally base arguments/conclusions on unknown information.

 

Again, I'll ask if there is a near record number of people detained crossing the border illegally, how to conclude the border is wide open?  In the case of a wide open border, wouldn't essentially nobody be detained?

The ones being detained are turning themselves in to border agents. Which has completely overwhelmed the system. I am not as worried about them as the ones using the overwhelmed border agents as a means to enter for nefarious reasons. 

[tshile]

Oh they also eviscerated our middle eastern “alliances” by outlining multiple instances of our “partners” clearing taking sensitive information and passing it along to al qaeda or their partners. 
 

a fact that’s gone under reported and under debated. 

Just now, clskinsfan said:

The ones being detained are turning themselves in to border agents. Which has completely overwhelmed the system. I am not as worried about them as the ones using the overwhelmed border agents as a means to enter for nefarious reasons

So the answer to the question of can you provide any data that supports your opinion that the border is wide open is: no. 

 

[clskinsfan]

8 minutes ago, tshile said:

um. I don’t recall the 9/11 commission report eviscerating anyone other than the total lack of communication ability that day, politicians for not taking it seriously, and people not heeding the warnings of the intelligence community. 
 

im pretty sure they took a strong stance on foreigners taking training on how to takeoff and fly but never spending time learning how to land, but I believe they placed the blame on the instructors for not raising the warning flags. I believe one instructor did but the fbi never went anywhere with it?

 

(ironically all in one paragraph you’ve said they were eviscerated, but then said we had plenty of warning - which came from…. Who? 😂)

 

im willing to consider I’m misremembering what the 9/11 commission report said as it’s been a long time since I read it and I make mistakes. 
 

but given your posts so far, including how you choose to falsely assign blame, the links you post that don’t say what you claim they do, etc - I’m willing to bet you just flat out haven’t even read the 9/11 commission report. 

 

 

so you have a problem with the current state of the border being the most detained ever (your link)

 

do you have a link for the most border crossings ever? And by that I mean a link that doesn’t just say it in the headline (then go on to say it’s the most detained ever), but one that actually says the most crossings ever?

 

Bonus points if they actually explain why/how/real data. 

They were eviscerated. Direct quote from the report:

 

"the intelligence community, assailed by an overwhelming number of priorities, flat budgets, an outmoded structure, and bureaucratic rivalries, had failed to pin down the big-picture threat posed by “transnational terrorism” throughout the 1990s and up to 9/11."

 

 

5 minutes ago, tshile said:

So the answer to the question of can you provide any data that supports your opinion that the border is wide open is: no. 

 

Suspected terrorists crossing border 'at a level we have never seen before,' outgoing Border Patrol chief says

https://news.yahoo.com/suspected-terrorists-crossing-border-level-174700735.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIGM_jq0icwq0nw0V2tEJ8lxhEIWPA9HKWQy0EfrteVpuGZ9wNcUueD-LI-_e51kd8o-uj4XdoIqhPpNlJHvQf1KrgU5GWWg81VSKlcNJt-DZhTmnYlNGfbY3cRhC0Y2kx_0XmUQI8UbGX5Zp47qGLMAiFeSh6t6qnAySBk56bp_

 

“I firmly believe that it is a national security crisis. Immigration is just a subcomponent of it, and right now, it’s just a cover for massive amounts of smuggling going across the southwest border — to include TSDBs at a level we have never seen before. That's a real threat.”

 

Sounds like a very secure border to me. Not wide open at all. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by clskinsfan

[Riggo-toni]

Bush also had an opportunity to take out Bin Laden, but UBL was with two Emirate princes and W didn't want an international incident. W also sent the Taliban $40 million in aid just months prior to 911, and failed to give permission to take out the Taliban leader Mullah Omar weeks after 911 when pilots located him on the ground.

W rightly mocked Clinton fir engaging in "nation building," but then made it the centerpiece of his disastrous foreign policy.

The only way to prevent the Taliban from taking back Afghanistan would have been to support the opposing warlords and allow the country to fragment.  Instead we clung to the same failed policy of entrusting US trained government forces to do the fighting while we deny support to local/ethnic militias 

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, Riggo-toni said:

Bush also had an opportunity to take out Bin Laden, but UBL was with two Emirate princes and W didn't want an international incident. W also sent the Taliban $40 million in aid just months prior to 911, and failed to give permission to take out the Taliban leader Mullah Omar weeks after 911 when pilots located him on the ground.

W rightly mocked Clinton fir engaging in "nation building," but then made it the centerpiece of his disastrous foreign policy.

The only way to prevent the Taliban from taking back Afghanistan would have been to support the opposing warlords and allow the country to fragment.  Instead we clung to the same failed policy of entrusting US trained government forces to do the fighting while we deny support to local/ethnic militias 

Great post. Agree completely. Afghanistan should have been a 2-3 year mission. Go in, kill the terrorists and make sure they cannot do it again then leave. Instead it turned into a 2 decade quagmire of us trying to change people that didnt want to be changed. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Border Patrol Chief has a suspicion that he’s gonna need a much bigger budget!

 

Big, if true.