Tunisian Revolution and the Middle East--And Now, The Withdrawal From Afghanistan (M.E.T.)

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[visionary]

Wrong thread.

Edited August 9, 2021 by visionary

[visionary]

 

 

 

[Riggo-toni]

Fun fact - Back in the 50s and 60s when the chief threat to the Saudi royal family was seen as the pro-revolutionary Nasserist movement and Arabia and Iran were allies, the Saudis fought their first proxy war in Yemen - supporting the Houthis against Egyptian sponsored Sunni rebels.

[visionary]

 

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/12/politics/joe-biden-donald-trump-barack-obama-afghanistan-infrastructure/index.html

 

 

 

headline: Biden forges ahead where Trump and Obama failed on infrastructure and Afghanistan

 

 

 

I really feel like that is a very optimistic take on what is happening in/with Afghanistan. I don’t think this endears is in the eyes of our allies, especially with our allies in areas with a risky security situation.
 

Turkey, Ukraine, Pakistan* and to a lesser extent Tawain got to be feeling a little more nervous about us when we cut and run like this.
 

Got to make them think about strengthening ties elsewhere from other countries to ensure their security.  

 

Easy to say from the sofa, but overall I just find the headline very shallowly optimistic.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

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[China]

Pentagon sending thousands of troops to Kabul to help evacuate U.S. Embassy

 

The U.S. is sending thousands of troops to help evacuate a number of civilians from the American Embassy in Kabul, the State Department confirmed on Thursday, a move that comes as the Taliban are marching across Afghanistan and capturing key cities at surprising speed.

 

Although U.S. officials insisted that the embassy remained open and that the move did not amount to an abandonment of the country, it was an ominous sign of how quickly Afghanistan appears to be unraveling in the wake of President Joe Biden’s withdrawal of combat troops and amid flailing peace negotiations.

 

The Defense Department confirmed it is sending two Marine and one Army infantry battalions to aid the operation at the airport in the Afghan capital. That’s roughly 3,000 troops.

 

“We expect to draw down to a core diplomatic presence in Afghanistan in the coming weeks,” State Department spokesperson Ned Price told reporters at a news briefing on Thursday afternoon. “In order to facilitate this reduction, the Department of Defense will temporarily deploy additional personnel to Hamid Karzai International Airport.”

 

Price did not immediately give specific numbers of people being evacuated or say what figure would constitute a “core diplomatic presence.” He also dismissed questions about whether the U.S. was being caught flat-footed, insisting that the move was the result of regular, ongoing contingency planning by the administration.

 

There are now serious calls from Capitol Hill for Biden to change course in Afghanistan.

 

“I still don’t think it is too late … for Biden to admit that this was a strategic mistake and to shift course very quickly,” Rep. Mike Waltz (R-Fla.), the first Green Beret in Congress and a House Armed Services Committee member, said about the withdrawal decision. The Taliban, he added, “understand leverage and they understand, not to be too crass here, but bombs on foreheads.” Waltz also called for the architect of the U.S. role as broker of an Afghan peace deal, Zalmay Khalilzad, to resign or for Biden to fire him.

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

In related news...

 

The Daily 202: Biden says he has no Afghanistan withdrawal regrets. But.

 

President Biden’s unwavering belief in the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan could soon come up against his famous empathy with people who lose loved ones to tragedies beyond their control, as the Taliban scorches its way back to power. 

 

Even so, the Islamist militia’s mounting battlefield gains aren’t likely to provoke the president to reverse course on a pullout he ordered, arguing he must defend America’s national interest and not the well-being of Afghanistan’s war-harried population. 

 

“I do not regret my decision,” the president said Tuesday. “Afghan leaders have to come together. We lost thousands — lost to death and injury — thousands of American personnel. They’ve got to fight for themselves, fight for their nation.” 

 

Click on the link for the full article

[visionary]

 

 

[DCSaints_fan]

This was always a lost cause.  We should have went in, shivved bin Laden, then gotten TFO,  Would have saved a couple trillion. 

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[skinsmarydu]

1 minute ago, DCSaints_fan said:

This was always a lost cause.  We should have went in, shivved bin Laden, then gotten TFO,  Would have saved a couple trillion. 

.

But something something Iraq...🤬

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

36 minutes ago, DCSaints_fan said:

This was always a lost cause.  We should have went in, shivved bin Laden, then gotten TFO,  Would have saved a couple trillion. 

.

I don’t know how in tune people here are with the military veteran community but there is a lot of grief going around right now.  All the blood spilled, friends lost, and emotional toll paid only to see the Taliban move right back in in a matter of days is rough.  I firmly believe that there will be numerous suicides tied to this, more so than just the normal veteran suicides.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

45 minutes ago, DCSaints_fan said:

This was always a lost cause.  We should have went in, shivved bin Laden, then gotten TFO,  Would have saved a couple trillion. 

.

Bin Laden wasn’t the real problem. He was just a man, a symptom of it. The real problem is the culture of terror that exists in Afghanistan and more broadly the Middle East. We weren’t able to be change the culture there.  Sadly, I think our surrender will make things worse. We’ve betrayed the few people who believed in on version of peace, again.  And that’s not a criticism of Biden, to be clear.

[tshile]

So I’m following this because it interest me but….

 

im a bit infuriated by the reaction. 
 

these governments and agencies, including our own, are acting like this is a surprise. 
 

if Canada gave a **** about 20k Afghans they should have pulled them months ago. And same for us and the embassy people for that matter. 
 

I realize there’s always hope, but you don’t deny the clear and obvious outcome because of some small hope. 
 

and I was someone asking why people didn’t care more that Afghanistan had 70%+ turnout early on when voting started and the taliban posted flyers saying they would kill anyone who voted and bomb polling places. Cause, that was like a blip on our radar and I thought it was a hugely impressive showing of cultural courage by these people. 
 

but even I knew this was the outcome. It’s why I changed my tune and demanded we leave or fully commit years ago - because

any other choice just ended this way, it was just a matter of how long would you wait? (And even fully committing would be a huge challenge, but I was willing to accept it because those were the only two options that had any other potential outcome)

 

If Canada did this 3 months ago I’d give them props. 
 

now? **** off. Day late and a dollar short. 
 

(I’m picking on Canada because it was the more recent tweet but I feel this way about all the entities involved including ours, and the Biden administration for which I voted)

[tshile]

27 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Bin Laden wasn’t the real problem. He was just a man, a symptom of it. The real problem is the culture of terror that exists in Afghanistan and more broadly the Middle East. We weren’t able to be change the culture there.  Sadly, I think our surrender will make things worse. We’ve betrayed the few people who believed in on version of peace, again.  And that’s not a criticism of Biden, to be clear.

bin laden created a terror network and negotiated safe havens around the are with the governments. He had access an enormous amount of money. He recruited key members that were responsible for architecting many of their most impactful attacks (I don’t think the guy that did 9/11 was recruited by him, if I recall correctly)

 

in terms of attacking the global posture and ability of a global terror network he did matter. 
 

Towards the end I don’t really know, he obviously became very old and hidden in Pakistan. But going back to the early 90’s he was the key figure in creating the global terror threat we have today. 

[tshile]

Also. And I know you get this a lot but times like this when the news is dominated by other things I honestly get a sizable portion of updates from @visionary

 

so thanks. Again

 

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[visionary]

This seems a little ****ed up for anyone stuck there.  It sounds we’re begging the Taliban to let us pull our people out and then we’ll be more likely to support whatever they want to do to everyone else.