Next Day Thread: Denver

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Is that Charles grade for real? WOW, just WOW

 

He had a big game as a point of attack blocker.  He's our best guy at moving one techniques on inside rushes, and he's close to being our best as a second level blocker.  When he has good reps, they look dominant.  Impressive feats of strength and he's also pretty fast.  When he has bad reps, they are comical because he is kind of clumsy.  That screen pass for instance, where he tripped on his own feet way down field and managed to take out Cosmi too.  He's a bit of a feast or famine player, but he is feasting more and more, and the bottom line for me is that his upside is really high.  You take chances on OLs with freak show strength and good athleticism.

 

His play going back to preseason has been a very pleasant revelation.  Hopefully he makes it through the year and we can get Stromberg in there and eventually have a legitimately good IOL.

[FootballZombie]

Denver had 1 sack in their last 4 reg season games... and were without Clark...

My goodness, I knew they had trouble getting after the passer but that is another level.

 

Let it be known I don't wanna live in a world where my D-line can only generate 1 sack in 4 games. I'd go crazy. Can't blame the writer for getting giddy when they pull down 4.

 

 

 

I also feel even worse about our O-line now.

Edited September 19, 2023 by FootballZombie

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

He had a big game as a point of attack blocker.  He's our best guy at moving one techniques on inside rushes, and he's close to being our best as a second level blocker.  When he has good reps, they look dominant.  Impressive feats of strength and he's also pretty fast.  When he has bad reps, they are comical because he is kind of clumsy.  That screen pass for instance, where he tripped on his own feet way down field and managed to take out Cosmi too.  He's a bit of a feast or famine player, but he is feasting more and more, and the bottom line for me is that his upside is really high.  You take chances on OLs with freak show strength and good athleticism.

 

His play going back to preseason has been a very pleasant revelation.  Hopefully he makes it through the year and we can get Stromberg in there and eventually have a legitimately good IOL.

While I have always known his potential and why I really liked his selection a s a great value pick, he has been a huge disappointment in play and health. "If" Charles and Cosmi could stay healthy and play like this, with assistance from EB's play calling and Howell's ability holy.....we would be a nice interior position with Gates, Larsen or yes, another young gun in Stromberg taking over at C! You have remained very patient and positive about these guys, kudos to you! Now if we could just find some decent Tackles. 

 

That screen you speak of must be the play that I read in the game day thread someone wrote that our Olinmen just tripped over blades of grass lol. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

After watching the game again I have more takes.

 

The TD pass to Terry was even better after more looks. What I had not noticed was how Howell looked left until the final instant, he didn't lock in on Terry to make that throw. This pulled the safety just enough to make him late to the play.  Just an unbelievable throw, a throw I can't remember a Washington QB making in a very long time.

 

I really wish he would take off and run more often. For 2 years in a row we have a mobile QB but unlike other teams we just don't exploit that enough.

 

Sam's height was the reason for several of those batted balls at the LOS. We don't talk about his height, like ever. But it is and will continue to be an issue. 

 

I knew Wylie would suck at RT, most of us did. How can fans know more than our front office?  Charles did have a very good game. I noticed on game day how he tripped Cosmi on that screen to the right, I always felt that big play should have been bigger. However on the Gibson screen he got out and made a key block and was solid most of the game.  

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

What’s odd is the high variance.  Against the Cardinals, they were both higher rated.  
 

Even without PFF telling me, I think it’s definitely true the had Breyer games in week 1 than week 2.  
 

So maybe that means they have good games in week 3? (He ask’s hopefully?)

 

(This post has nothing to do with PFF for what it’s worth so we don’t have to go down that rabbit hole))

[KDawg]

Our OL is much better in run vs. pass.

 

Bienemy can help that though by going more quick game and more “balance” in playcalling to keep the defense from pinning their ears back.

 

I hear the argument that we fell behind early and needed to throw… but at the same time one of the biggest mistakes I see coaches at all levels make is getting away from the things that they do for an efficient offense too early when there is plenty of clock.

 

keeping the D off balance and negating some pressure packages with sound run plays is so important. 
 

Especially with the sieve we have on the OL in pass pro at the moment. 
 

Giving them every advantage we can is beyond important. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Brian Robinson like most other running back clearly improve the more reps he gets, That tends to be especially true with power backs like we have.

The opposing defense wears down over time. The O line is moving forward instead of holding their ground.  Setting the tone.

 

All basic stuff we know.  But that was a big part of the story of that 2nd half. Balance.

[Tress Is The Way]

15 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

2 sacks is 4th in the league?  Wow. 
 

Not sure about “only”. That’s on pace for 17 sacks which would be beyond atrocious.

 

This is against 2 “meh” D lines at best. Before the season I thought the first 2 games the O line should be fine.   
 

I think the next two games will be telling 

I mean it's not good by any means but yeah lol

 

At least our Oline doesn't look like the steelers Oline.. talk about atrocious.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I think EB’s nature is to call a pass heavy game. He did seem to get a better feel in the second half, which is about the best I’ve seen our offense look in forever. 
 

Balanced. Screen game. Impressive runs. Red zone efficiency. They were in a rhythm for sure. 
 

I’m excited to play Buffalo. Let’s play a hand at the big boy table and see how we do. I personally think we will be competitive against the better teams on our schedule, especially if our defense shows up. 

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

What’s odd is the high variance.  Against the Cardinals, they were both higher rated.  
 

Even without PFF telling me, I think it’s definitely true the had Breyer games in week 1 than week 2.  
 

So maybe that means they have good games in week 3? (He ask’s hopefully?)

 

(This post has nothing to do with PFF for what it’s worth so we don’t have to go down that rabbit hole))

No sarcasm implied but I am a bit surprised they struggled in either game. Neither pass rush is good.  Part of the reason why I predicted a 2-0 start was I thought neither D line would expose this O line.

 

I did expect the O line to be exposed by the big boy D lines. Those big boy D lines are coming. This was an easy start for that unit 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Tress Is The Way said:

I mean it's not good by any means but yeah lol

 

At least our Oline doesn't look like the steelers Oline.. talk about atrocious.

 
 

I think we are discounting some the competition. This O line struggled in the pre season against a depleted version of the Browns unit. The Steelers faced the big boys version of that Browns unit.

 

The Raiders O line doesn’t have a hot reputation but they just about completely shut down Denver’s pass rush. We couldn’t do the same.

[Koolblue13]

These next two games are going to be really telling about this team and who we are going forward. 

 

I think the Bills are beatable if our second half defense plays a full game and we capitalize on our almost turnovers. We'll need those defensive drops in a big way. The offense can't stumble out of the gate either. Milano is going to give our screen and short game fits and we'd be better off with more of a run and shoot out type of offense. Heavy power run to draw the safeties up and then deep shots out of run formations. 

 

Against the Eagles, Sam is gonna need to run for 200 yards for our offense to get anywhere, because of that pass rush, but they're beatable in the middle of the field right now with LB/DB injuries.

[thebluefood]

"It's just 2-0," I'm telling myself.

"Everything before Week 8 is just an extended preseason," I'm telling myself.

"They won the division the first year of new ownership and you remember how that went," I'm telling myself.

"You've seen them start off hot only to choke down the stretch," I'm telling myself.

"This offensive line is still suspect and they're getting Sam beat up all to hell," I'm telling myself.

 

But damn it, it's hard not to give in to the hype right now. 

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

These next two games are going to be really telling about this team and who we are going forward. 

 

I think the Bills are beatable if our second half defense plays a full game and we capitalize on our almost turnovers. We'll need those defensive drops in a big way. The offense can't stumble out of the gate either. Milano is going to give our screen and short game fits and we'd be better off with more of a run and shoot out type of offense. Heavy power run to draw the safeties up and then deep shots out of run formations. 

 

Against the Eagles, Sam is gonna need to run for 200 yards for our offense to get anywhere, because of that pass rush, but they're beatable in the middle of the field right now with LB/DB injuries.

The good thing about the Denver win is that we can afford to lose to Buffalo without losing ground because its an AFC game. It is a home game though so it is one you want more but we won one we were supposed to lose (cause it was on the road, not talking point spreads).

 

But what I like about the Denver game is that it gave Buffalo and Philly a new layer to think about rather than just the Arizona game. I think Arizona went into week 1 thinking we'd just pound the rock, so EB surprised them with the pass game. Then I think VJ probably expected that but at the same time he had a young QB he was going against so he was preparing to attack the KC offense and attack the young QB. And I think early VJ's drive adjustments worked. 

 

Then EB adjusted as well. 

 

So I think it becomes a question of what will be the next layers of the offense we see in Buffalo as a preparation for Philadelphia. We know that OL likes to run and we haven't seen the run game develop early yet. Will we see that work early in the game so that we don't see that imbalance 33-7 passing play call? What we have is an athletic OL of former tackles playing G so they can all get to the second level rather quickly and maul guys. Thats what I want to see. We know how good those pass rushes are in Philly and Dallas but how good are they against the run? I know the new era stats say to pass to set up the run, but with all these interior linemen inside and edge rushers in our division, I have no problem trying to push them back and just establish domininion. 

[DWinzit]

On 9/18/2023 at 7:36 AM, KDawg said:

Yeah he’s not very good. Our safety/slot cb depth is non existent. Hopefully we stay healthy.

 

On 9/18/2023 at 7:43 AM, MartinC said:

 One thing that stood out was the amount of mesh/shallow cross they ran to attack our backers.  I think we will continue to see a lot of that - you don’t need to be genius to see that’s a weakness.

 

Denver didn’t pass a lot until second half but Barton was picked on a bit in coverage yesterday.

These are the items that worry me defensively versus the Bills. I am very concerned with their TE's, Knox and Kincaid along with Cook out of the backfield having big days.

 

[FootballZombie]

I'm gonna need to see a lot more outta EB moving forward. Not impressed to date.

He was bad vs Arizona and Godawful for most of the 1st half vs Den.

 

I don't award full credit for racking up stats in a blowout situation, which is where most of EB's good has come from after we were down 20-3. That is not emblematic of good O, its more a case of getting what the opposing D allows you to get after they are fat and happy. Its similar to early last year when our O was putting up some gawdy upper end of the NFL numbers but only after the other team went up 3 scores.

 

I won't write the book after 2 games, but 6 Qtrs of bad and 2Qtrs of good aint cutting it in the least. And that's before we get to the penalty problem.

While a lot of stuff like the poor gameplanning vs Den or the imbalance of the O can be chalked up to growing pains and to be expected, this is the NFL and you gotta preform.

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I don't award full credit for racking up stats in a blowout situation, which is where most of EB's good has come from after we were down 20-3. That is not emblematic of good O, its more a case of getting what the opposing D allows you to get after they are fat and happy. Its similar to early last year when our O was putting up some gawdy upper end of the NFL numbers but only after the other team went up 3 scores.

 

 

This makes no sense. We were down 21-3 and came back to win. Does EB not get credit for that? Being down 21-3 in the 1st half isn't a blowout situation. I can understand if we racked up yards and TDs with 2 minutes left down 20 but the game was still very much in play.

[Koolblue13]

52 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

The good thing about the Denver win is that we can afford to lose to Buffalo without losing ground because its an AFC game. It is a home game though so it is one you want more but we won one we were supposed to lose (cause it was on the road, not talking point spreads).

 

But what I like about the Denver game is that it gave Buffalo and Philly a new layer to think about rather than just the Arizona game. I think Arizona went into week 1 thinking we'd just pound the rock, so EB surprised them with the pass game. Then I think VJ probably expected that but at the same time he had a young QB he was going against so he was preparing to attack the KC offense and attack the young QB. And I think early VJ's drive adjustments worked. 

 

Then EB adjusted as well. 

 

So I think it becomes a question of what will be the next layers of the offense we see in Buffalo as a preparation for Philadelphia. We know that OL likes to run and we haven't seen the run game develop early yet. Will we see that work early in the game so that we don't see that imbalance 33-7 passing play call? What we have is an athletic OL of former tackles playing G so they can all get to the second level rather quickly and maul guys. Thats what I want to see. We know how good those pass rushes are in Philly and Dallas but how good are they against the run? I know the new era stats say to pass to set up the run, but with all these interior linemen inside and edge rushers in our division, I have no problem trying to push them back and just establish domininion. 

I really think we'll need to lean hard on the run these next two games. Especially against the Eagles because of their pass rush. 

 

Heavy dose of CRod and BRob pounding the ball early. Howell designed runs too.

[redskinss]

4 hours ago, Going Commando said:

pretty fast.  When he has bad reps, they are comical because he is kind of clumsy.  That screen pass for instance.

I wish I could be a fly on the wall of that meeting room when they get to that play while reviewing the tape.

There's gonna be some pretty hardy laughs going on.

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

This makes no sense. We were down 21-3 and came back to win. Does EB not get credit for that? Being down 21-3 in the 1st half isn't a blowout situation. I can understand if we racked up yards and TDs with 2 minutes left down 20 but the game was still very much in play.

Gotta wonder. Did the offense finally start to click and the light has come on? Is the offense going to play like the second half of the Denver game from the opening snap or is what we've seen from the first 6 quarters closer to the offense that we are. 

[FootballZombie]

12 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

This makes no sense. We were down 21-3 and came back to win. Does EB not get credit for that? Being down 21-3 in the 1st half isn't a blowout situation. I can understand if we racked up yards and TDs with 2 minutes left down 20 but the game was still very much in play.

 

I didn’t say no credit, I said I don’t award full credit.  Being able to rack up some numbers is certainly better than getting skunked.

 

But most teams play much differently when you have a monumental lead. A lot of teams let up and get conservative. Gameplans go out the window to facilitate the new reality as your not playing a game that is even remotely close. Protect the lead becomes more and more of a priority.

A game that is 20-3 in the 2^nd is not one that is decided, but it is enough of a lead that the completion of gamecalling changes drastically for both offense and defense. Most Ds get softer in that situation, so naturally Offense gets easier, especially the underneath stuff they want you to take.

When playing against Denver’s defensive gameplan, our O was not successful.

 

We found success only after Den got what they wanted, and after coming back we had momentum and motivation on our side, very powerful forces. 

[RVAskins]

Watching replays of Howell's TD pass to McLaurin and it was really a thing of beauty. It was on a rope and was placed right where it needed to be. I think back to the QB who's name we don't mention and that thing would have hung in the air and either been picked off or thrown way short. It's so nice to have a QB who can make the throws.

Edited September 19, 2023 by RVAskins

[redskinss]

14 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I didn’t say no credit, I said I don’t award full credit.  Being able to rack up some numbers is certainly better than getting skunked.

 

But most teams play much differently when you have a monumental lead. A lot of teams let up and get conservative. Gameplans go out the window to facilitate the new reality as your not playing a game that is even remotely close. Protect the lead becomes more and more of a priority.

A game that is 20-3 in the 2^nd is not one that is decided, but it is enough of a lead that the completion of gamecalling changes drastically for both offense and defense. Most Ds get softer in that situation, so naturally Offense gets easier, especially the underneath stuff they want you to take.

When playing against Denver’s defensive gameplan, our O was not successful.

 

We found success only after Den got what they wanted, and after coming back we had momentum and motivation on our side, very powerful forces. 

This wasn't a giants down 3 scores late situation though. 

We went into the half only down by 7 and moved the ball almost at will in the second half putting up 21.

This was not garbage time offense.

And our offense moved the ball plenty early on we just couldn't finish drives which is a product of learning and growing in this new offense.

I don't believe you're giving Bienemy enough credit for a game well called.

Edited September 19, 2023 by redskinss

[FootballZombie]

2 minutes ago, redskinss said:

This wasn't a giants down 3 scores late situation though. 

We went into the half only down by 7 and moved the ball almost at will in the second half putting up 21.

This was not garbage time offense.

 

The when does not matter too much to me.

When a game turns into a rout the completion changes. It certainly changes by greater degrees the later in the game it gets, but it changes regardless.

 

A team going up 2 scores has and impact. Den went up 3.

A team up 3 scores does not play the same as a team in a close contest.

[skinny21]

1 minute ago, FootballZombie said:

 

The when does not matter too much to me.

When a game turns into a rout the completion changes. It certainly changes by greater degrees the later in the game it gets, but it changes regardless.

 

A team going up 2 scores has and impact. Den went up 3.

A team up 3 scores does not play the same as a team in a close contest.

Somewhat ironic that we’re all hoping to give our D a lead so we can really unleash our dline…