Next Day Thread: Denver

[Koolblue13]

RESPAKT!!

[redskinss]

1 minute ago, FootballZombie said:

 

A team going up 2 scores has and impact. Den went up 3.

A team up 3 scores does not play the same as a team in a close contest.

You're right but they were only up one score at the half after what should have been a huge lead Going in.

They had the halftime to make adjustments to the defense and get settled down and they got the ball to start the half.

They should have easily been able to make corrections and beat someone who was struggling with playcaling but the opposite happened they couldn't do a thing and got virtually steamrolled in the second half.

We've been praying to the 7 gods for as long as i can remember for an offensive coordinator who can look better in the second half than the first and so far the early results have been promising. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

RESPAKT!!

And I thought I was a homer.

[Koolblue13]

[FootballZombie]

4 minutes ago, redskinss said:

They should have easily been able to make corrections and beat someone who was struggling with playcaling but the opposite happened they couldn't do a thing and got virtually steamrolled in the second half.

 

Momentum and motivation are powerful forces.

 

5 minutes ago, redskinss said:

We've been praying to the 7 gods for as long as i can remember for an offensive coordinator who can look better in the second half than the first and so far the early results have been promising.

 

I'm not sold there yet either.

Our first two drives after the break vs Ariz went for 0 and 2 yards. We got worse coming out.

I gotta see him have more success before I have faith in his ability to make good adjustments at the half.

[redskinss]

12 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Momentum and motivation are powerful forces.

So it was just adrenaline then, Scott Turner would have done the same. Got it.

 

13 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

gotta see him have more success before I have faith in his ability to make good adjustments at the half

Me too, that's why I said early results are promising. 

Absolutely nothing with this offense is settled we're just debating this one game and in this one game he made great adjustments and called an excellent second half.

 

I get the stay medium approach with Bienemy its very early and he hasn't proven anything yet but I believe your reaching here by claiming this games offense can be chocked up to momentum and prevent defense. 

 

Bienemy called a good game and he deserves credit for it.

[FootballZombie]

3 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Bienemy called a good game and he deserves credit for it.

 

I gave him credit where it was due.

 

2 good Qtrs (2nd half vs Den)

6 bad Qtrs

[NoVaSkins21]

Any word on the LS workouts?

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I gave him credit where it was due.

 

2 good Qtrs (2nd half vs Den)

6 bad Qtrs

That's an oversimplification. In the Denver game there were only two drives where we didn't score or get into a position to score(not counting the drive after the OS kick recovery where it was a clear run run run punt situation). If we don't have missed FGs(which isn't on EB), we put up a 40 spot and the game is a comfortable double digit victory. That isn't even factoring in the bottom 5 OL play and a young QB that is starting to develop.

 

EB has done some great things. The screen game is 10000x better. The tempo on offense is actually fast. We've scored on end of half two minute drives in back to back weeks. I can't recall any procedural penalties like ilegal shifts or formation or anything like that.

 

What people seem to be harping on is how pass happy we are to start games, but the strength of this offense is a strong armed QB and some dynamic WRs. And in today's NFL you pass early to try to build a lead and then salt it away in the 2nd half. I think you may see more of a shift to running it more often early, but our next couple opponents are dynamic offenses and we need to be able to jump out to a lead or keep pace if we wanna win.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I really think we'll need to lean hard on the run these next two games. Especially against the Eagles because of their pass rush. 

 

Heavy dose of CRod and BRob pounding the ball early. Howell designed runs too.

 

Not ideal. Eagles are much better vs the run than the pass. Vikings have a good passing offense and lit them up. Kirk is a vet and knows when he needs to hold the ball a little longer to make a play, he was pummeled but it worked. If we try and run it against them, it likely won't work. Best case scenario is Howell does a better job figuring out his internal clock and how he should escape pressure, and then he exploits a really banged up Eagles back 7. We're likely going to need Howell to chunk them a bit with his legs, as well as moving pockets and the like.

 

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Not ideal. Eagles are much better vs the run than the pass. Vikings have a good passing offense and lit them up. Kirk is a vet and knows when he needs to hold the ball a little longer to make a play, he was pummeled but it worked. If we try and run it against them, it likely won't work. Best case scenario is Howell does a better job figuring out his internal clock and how he should escape pressure, and then he exploits a really banged up Eagles back 7. We're likely going to need Howell to chunk them a bit with his legs, as well as moving pockets and the like.

 

The Eagles have played the Pats and the Vikes. Two bad running teams.

 

Howell has always held the ball too long. That is never going to stop.

 

I agree that the Eagles LBers/DBs are banged up and we should exploit that, but if we try and get into a shoot out with them, Sam will get murdered.

 

So far both defenses have played us the same way. Rush 4 and keep everyone else in coverage. The Bills will do the same, but their LBers are excellent and will hurt our screen game. Eagles are probably going to be blitz heavy.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

I'm gonna need to see a lot more outta EB moving forward. Not impressed to date.

He was bad vs Arizona and Godawful for most of the 1st half vs Den.

 

I don't award full credit for racking up stats in a blowout situation, which is where most of EB's good has come from after we were down 20-3. That is not emblematic of good O, its more a case of getting what the opposing D allows you to get after they are fat and happy. Its similar to early last year when our O was putting up some gawdy upper end of the NFL numbers but only after the other team went up 3 scores.

 

I won't write the book after 2 games, but 6 Qtrs of bad and 2Qtrs of good aint cutting it in the least. And that's before we get to the penalty problem.

While a lot of stuff like the poor gameplanning vs Den or the imbalance of the O can be chalked up to growing pains and to be expected, this is the NFL and you gotta preform.

 

I do get what you're saying, especially if we go by this:

 

But if we filter out "garbage time stats" to account for all offensive plays that were in the 20-80% likely to win range, we get this:

 

Passing offense was clicking in non garbage time. If the argument was that the Broncos got lazy and took their foot off the gas 15 minutes into the game, but then could not mentally get back into it for the other 45 minutes then I don't know what to say to that. Credit should go to our team culture being better than theirs that we could flip a switch and they couldn't flip it on after flipping it off?

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

If all we did was play the Broncos and Cardinals every week we're a surefire playoff team by DVOA. We're all curious to see how we look after Bills and Eagles.

 

[Ball Security]

Can anybody with access to a rewatch look at the Davis roughing the passer call? In real time it looked like Wilson was being pressured on his right, pivoted, and ducked into a hand to the face. Didn’t seem like Davis did much wrong on that play.

[tomwvr]

On 9/18/2023 at 6:53 AM, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Yeah, but Cheeseman lol...

The penalty and the much closer attempt made it the right thing to do with the score the way it was

[redskinss]

We're also at that early part of the season where sample size is so small it's hard to determine who was successful and who was unsuccessful. 

The broncos were supposed to have a pretty good defense this year, they played pretty well against the Raiders and shut down jacobs and then we expose them in the second half and the narrative becomes well I guess they aren't as good as we expected. 

Maybe they are and we're better than expected. 

Won't really know for sure until we have a bigger sample size but before the season started the run of really tough defenses was supposed to start week 2 and now it's been moved to week 3.

 

God willing if we're successful on offense against the Bills I'll be pretty confident we have a legitimate offense and not just facing defenses that aren't as good as they were supposed to be.

 

[tomwvr]

5 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Can anybody with access to a rewatch look at the Davis roughing the passer call? In real time it looked like Wilson was being pressured on his right, pivoted, and ducked into a hand to the face. Didn’t seem like Davis did much wrong on that play.

According to the rules it was a penalty. His hand Hit the helmet and facemask. My issue with the penalty is earlier in the game Sam got his helmet ripped off from a denver player hitting him at the chin level and brought his hands up ripping his helmet off. He hit from below the Helmet and went up to the helmet, so they didn't call it.

[redskinss]

6 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Can anybody with access to a rewatch look at the Davis roughing the passer call? In real time it looked like Wilson was being pressured on his right, pivoted, and ducked into a hand to the face. Didn’t seem like Davis did much wrong on that play.

The hands to the face of a quarterback call is extremely subjective. 

They call it sometimes and other times completely ignore it.

Howels helmet came flying off, not sure how that's possible if a defender doesn't have his hands up in his face, no call.

On the spinning sack Allen had against Arizona he very easily could have been called for a blow to the quarterbacks head but wasn't. 

Personally I think they need to ignore the tricky tack **** where your hand accidentally ends up slapping a quarterbacks helmet and focus on the hits that might actually be dangerous to their health.

[tomwvr]

30 minutes ago, redskinss said:

The hands to the face of a quarterback call is extremely subjective. 

They call it sometimes and other times completely ignore it.

Howels helmet came flying off, not sure how that's possible if a defender doesn't have his hands up in his face, no call.

On the spinning sack Allen had against Arizona he very easily could have been called for a blow to the quarterbacks head but wasn't. 

Personally I think they need to ignore the tricky tack **** where your hand accidentally ends up slapping a quarterbacks helmet and focus on the hits that might actually be dangerous to their health.

I agree they need to ignore when hands make contact in a minor way. Because they do so often ignore it but then a few times they done. Clarify the rule

[Warhead36]

Unnecessary roughness adds a level of variance to the game that can be super frustrating and actually to an extent punishes good aggressive defenses. It'll be the cost of doing business I guess of having a defense that can consistently get pressure. Think of it this way: I'll glady take an extra 1-2 sacks and additional pressure throughout the game if it means one extra late hit penalty.

[redskinss]

11 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

I agree they need to ignore when hands make contact in a minor way. Because they do so often ignore it but then a few times they done. Clarify the rule

Hell even the fumble that jamin caused could easily have been a penalty. 

I was wincing looking around for a flag.

The nfl definitely has a consistency problem when it pertains to certain penalties. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by redskinss

[Fan since a Fetus]

[@DCGoldPants]

10 minutes ago, redskinss said:

nfl definitely has a consistency problem when it pertains to certain penalties.

 

Yep. One of the things I liked about that AAFL (I think it was them) was take any penalty reviews out of the hands of the refs on the field. I think they would have the voice of the review person looking at the play and making a call. Quickly. 

 

People don't want to be wrong. Add on you have them looking at a screen outside with screaming all around you. Things like roughing the passer, should be auto reviewed by officials not on the field. 

[Going Commando]

Wouldn't be so sure Payton isn't still running a bounty system.  Kareem Jackson's play looked like he was performing them.

 

Payton's teams are always dirty, similar to how Jeff Fisher teams were always dirty.  It's a culture that he establishes.

[Koolblue13]

[Skinsinparadise]

2 games in.  Don't get why they have Gibson as the starter versus Robinson