2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[mhd24]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Thanks. Got it.  OK sorry for for the edginess in my response.

 

It was set in the start of the discussion, not by you, about where all of a sudden a post from months back on the draft thread is now challenged.  If it was considered BS then, IMO call it out then.  But I feels like its now collapsed into a Rivera debate where there is some spin taking place.

 

I get it to an extent I spent 3 years spinning on behalf of Rivera.  But as for my posting as for what reporters say, draft gossip, etc -- I try not to let my opinions impinge on what I post as to reports-gossip.  If it flies with my opinion or against them, it doesn't matter.  I just share. 

 

I post so much of this stuff, that its impossible for me to remember months later, the sources of everything.  But I do recall typically what's challenged or not.

 

As for Dawand, the vibe I got is he's possibly manic depressant.  Paulsen said during the Senior Bowl he heard he's very moody.  The basketball part was a narrative, too.  I know this team met with him if I recall at least 3 times.    it's possible that he thought that he gave them enough time, did he need to do it a 4th time? -- again supposedly he's a moody dude.

 

I wouldn't have taken him in the first two rounds.  He's a risk for sure.  But considering this O line might not be hot IMHO he was worth the risk at the end of the third.  If this O line was good, I wouldn't care.  But the idea that the Browns of all teams took him, got my attention considering Callahan was here.  And Callahan did a better job with this O line than Rivera so I trust his gut over Ron.

 

 

No biggie SIP.  Thanks.  You're the MVP of the forum.  I probably wouldn't have taken Dawaand with that 3rd round comp pick even still.  I'm generally risk-averse so I'm fine with Stromberg.  If he develops into a solid starting center who loves football then it is all gravy.  He seemed jacked to be here.  Probably made a really good impression during his top-30 visit.  

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

No biggie SIP.  Thanks.  You're the MVP of the forum.  I probably wouldn't have taken Dawaand with that 3rd round comp pick even still.  I'm generally risk-averse so I'm fine with Stromberg.  If he develops into a solid starting center who loves football then it is all gravy.  He seemed jacked to be here.  Probably made a really good impression during his top-30 visit.  

 

Thanks.  For me its not Dawand.  It's not about trading up for a snapper over Trey Smith.  It's not about taking a raw weakside LB over Darrisaw who is becoming an elite LT.  It's not about not drafting Andrew Thomas.  It's not about releasing Mogan Moses.   Losing Scherff.  Losing Trent.    Not aggressively addressing the O line in the draft for the last two years.  Not going aggressive in FA for that spot in the last two years. 

 

I can defend some of those decisions and did in real time.  But on the aggregate IMO Ron has shown a lack of urgency with the O line.    And the reason why i can't let that go is two fold.  1.  Sam Howell -- you want to nurture a young QB versus Patrick Ramsey style see how he deals with adversity and hope it goes well.  2.  I've been a believer for a long time in that its tough to be a good team regardless of how stacked the rest of the roster is if the O line is bad.  it's not a novel theory for me.  It's been one of my core points way before Ron decided to test it out here 

[profusion]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've been a believer for a long time in that its tough to be a good team regardless of how stacked the rest of the roster is if the O line is bad.  it's not a novel theory for me.  It's been one of my core points way before Ron decided to test it out here 

 

The Bengals are living proof of that. Their poor OL has now cost them at least one, and possibly two, Super Bowls.

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 Our season went down the tubes when Larsen got injured last year.

Actually, our season went down the tubes when 

 

1. The FO decided to have Schweitzer, who was coming off IR, be the only primary backup available at Center or Guard to open the season because Larson was on PUP

2. Then Rouiller went down, forcing Schweitzer into action.

3. At some point, both Norwell and Turner were hurt, and Schweitzer couldn't back up both guard spots.

3. Then Swchweitzer got hurt. 

5. All of this happened before Larson came off the PUP

6. THEN Larson got hurt again, after he had played some games at center.

7. There still wasn't any real solution at Guard because Turner was hurt all season, Schweitzer was on IR.

 

This problem started when they didn't account for the fact Rouiller was coming off of IR, Turner and Norwell were often hurt, the primary guard backup was coming off of IR, and the backup center was going to start the year on PUP.  THAT was a complete and total disaster of roster management, and I said so at the time.  

[@DCGoldPants]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

ok now I’m convinced that the people who say that Rivera doesn’t know what analytics actually are, are correct. Happy for him that he’s just blissfully living his truth though, good for him 

 

"before practice I was working on our analytics machine and it said......" - Ron, probably. 

[CommandB11]

Is Mykal Walker worth a look. Cut from Falcons yesterday

[88Comrade2000]

Well, it doesn’t matter. All the bad decisions will lead to  a nice permanent trip to the golf course for Mr Riverboat.

 

Each bad decision will just add up and when Josh has to make a Decision, it will have already been made for him. Easy peasy.

Edited August 13, 2023 by 88Comrade2000

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

33 minutes ago, @DCGoldPants said:

 

"before practice I was working on our analytics machine and it said......" - Ron, probably. 

 

[FootballZombie]

Big Thanos....

Big Thanos...

 

 

 

I'm never going to recover from this

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

 

The IT Crowd was/is a great British comedy show. It’s on Netflix.

[Koolblue13]

 

[WilberMarshall]

Anyone know if Warren Sapp was in camp to help out with the DL?

 

 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Just now, WilberMarshall said:

Anyone know if Warren Sapp was in camp to help out with the DL?

 

 

Wilber!!! I seem to recall him being there in OTAs. Haven’t heard about him being there during training camp. 

[dyst]

Sounds like the Ohio guy wanted to go to the Cleveland Browns 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

10 hours ago, dyst said:

Sounds like the Ohio guy wanted to go to the Cleveland Browns 

 

He's from Indy orginally.  So, I gather a Colts fan.  But its not like he's Eli style going first in the draft and can control his destination.

 

Kirk didn't want to come here by his own admission.  Grew up a Bears fan from the midwest.    But he dealt with it and was good.

 

If we are looking for alternate theories for why they didn't draft Dawand, my guess was they researched him and didn't think he was worth the risk.  Him not being willing to go for another meeting a few days before the draft which to my count would be the 4th meeting between the two teams was the kicker.

 

Look i am not even saying they will be proven wrong on it, will see.   But IMHO they needed to take more risks and have a bigger sense of urgency to improve the O line than they showed.   But as I've said many times, if the O line is successful than Ron is vindicated. 

 

My only beef with those who defend Ron is those that justtify multiple decisions that led to this unit and seem to imply regardless of results, Ron deserves a pass on it.  IMO Ron needs to ride or fall with these decisions.  There is no out if he falls.   

 

I asked the one person who seems to push the narrative the hardest that Ron did all he could on the spot and we should give him a break, I go what happens if their thesis that the line should be fine doesn't bear out, would they be out on Ron, then?  But they didn't answer that question.

 

I answered that question for myself multiple times.  If they have a good season, make the playoffs and Ron has the last laugh including on the O line, he should be back.  I don't expect it to happen but if it does, I'd be wrong in that case, and I'd be happy to be wrong.  

 

https://commanderswire.usatoday.com/2023/04/14/2023-nfl-draft-washington-commanders-dawand-jones-ohio-state-kelee-ringo-georgia-bulldogs/

The Commanders have met with massive Ohio State offensive tackle Dawand James on multiple occasions,

 

 

According to Jordan Reid of ESPN, he’s hearing some chatter around Jones and the Commanders:

The Commanders have studied the top offensive linemen in the class. Offensive tackle is a possibility in Round 1. Dawand Jones (Ohio State) is a name I keep hearing in connection with the team, which has done a lot of work on his evaluation. While the middle of Round 1 might seem high for Jones right now, don’t be surprised if he lands in that range.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chris 44]

Hoffman- Paulson podcast the other day, after the Cleveland game (apologize if already mentioned), Paulson's break down/take on the OL was interesting. Said Cosmi was good, best of the bunch, the rest overall did well with a couple notable Wylie exceptions. But even then did not rag on Wylie too much. Mentioned that Wyllie's issue seemed to be with overstepping the angle needed to block on pass pro. He was much more upbeat about the line than most. Its been pointed out on here by others that he works for the organization and may be dialing back criticism. Worth a listen though as he explains some of the nuances. 

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Hoffman- Paulson podcast the other day, after the Cleveland game (apologize if already mentioned), Paulson's break down/take on the OL was interesting. Said Cosmi was good, best of the bunch, the rest overall did well with a couple notable Wylie exceptions. But even then did not rag on Wylie too much. Mentioned that Wyllie's issue seemed to be with overstepping the angle needed to block on pass pro. He was much more upbeat about the line than most. Its been pointed out on here by others that he works for the organization and may be dialing back criticism. Worth a listen though as he explains some of the nuances. 

 

I'll listen.  I love Paulsen.  But I've become skeptical after the narrative from the beat guy (s) that the coaching staff has become aware of the media negativity about the O line and want to buck that unit up as far as the rhetoric goes. 

 

Then team that with Ron praising Fromm's performance after a 3 pick practice.  Then team that up with Ron's praise for Wentz's practices last year and Bram admitting recently that the coaching staff worked to convince the media last year that Wentz was playing well in practice and they shoudn't trust their eyes on that.  And Paulsen referencing other podcasts that have been negative on the O line, including Keim and then all of a sudden Keim revealed Paulsen talked to him and explained to him what to focus on good from Wylie's practices.  

 

Then we got more narratives including the other day about the offense working against the 2nd team defense.  Feels very heavy handed that Ron wants to change the narrative on the O line.  And it's how he rolls in general when there is a negative narrative from the local media. 

 

Whether he's wrong or not to do that, I got no idea.  I can argue it either way.  Part of me likes the idea of negativity sinking it because anger is a good motivator.  But there is something to be said for positive reinfocement, too.

 

As for Logan, love the dude.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think he'd lie about anything.  But I think he can present things glass half full.  And he's a positive guy in general.  And I don't mind hearing glass half full narratives.   So I'll listen.

 

My glass half full version in theory about the O line is Gates holds up all year and while he's not much of a run blocker by reputation, he is a decent pass blocker.  I love Cosmi's potential at guard, my concern is durability.  So lets say he stays healthy.  Paul is a big physical dude -- lets say he comes into his own.  Leno doesn't lose a beat and stays solid.  Wylie's SB appearance is sign of things to come and he steps up like that.

 

If everything breaks right, I think the O line can be so so.  But I rarely see everything break right, so I expect 2 of those things to go wrong.  Which 2?  I got no idea.  But heck if I played glass half full, Dan is gone maybe Lady Luck shines on us for that reason.  We deserve some good karma. 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

27 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Hoffman- Paulson podcast the other day, after the Cleveland game (apologize if already mentioned), Paulson's break down/take on the OL was interesting. Said Cosmi was good, best of the bunch, the rest overall did well with a couple notable Wylie exceptions. But even then did not rag on Wylie too much. Mentioned that Wyllie's issue seemed to be with overstepping the angle needed to block on pass pro. He was much more upbeat about the line than most. Its been pointed out on here by others that he works for the organization and may be dialing back criticism. Worth a listen though as he explains some of the nuances. 

It's hard to watch what we watched and come away with an overall good impression of the line.

 

I'd agree Cosmi was the best. He's very good in run blocking and at least decent in pass pro. That's a positive takeaway for sure.

 

Not sure "overall well" is a very good perspective on what we watched.

 

One thing I CAN say... Our line looked better than SF's. Yikes. 

[Chris 44]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'll listen.  I love Paulsen.  But I've become skeptical after the narrative from the beat guy (s) that the coaching staff has become aware of the media negativity about the O line and want to buck that unit up as far as the rhetoric goes. 

 

Then team that with Ron praising Fromm's performance after a 3 pick practice.  Then team that up with Ron's praise for Wentz's practices last year and Bram admitting recently that the coaching staff worked to convince the media last year that Wentz was playing well in practice and they shoudn't trust their eyes on that.  And Paulsen referencing other podcasts that have been negative on the O line, including Keim and then all of a sudden Keim revealed Paulsen talked to him and explained to him what to focus on good from Wylie's practices.  

 

Then we got more narratives including the other day about the Offensie working against the 2nd team defense.  Feels very heavy handed that Ron wants to change the narrative on the O line.  And it's how he rolls in general when there is a negative narrative from the local media. 

 

Whether he's wrong or not to do that, I got no idea.  I can argue it either way.  Part of me likes the idea of negativity sinking it because anger is a good motivator.  But there is something to be said for positive reinfocement, too.

 

As for Logan, love the dude.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think he'd lie about anything.  But I think he can present things glass half full.  And he's a positive guy in general.  And I don't mind hearing glass half full narratives.   So I'll listen.

 

My glass half full version in theory about the O line is Gates holds up all year and while he's not much of a run blocker by reputation, he is a decent pass blocker.  I love Cosmi's potential at guard, my concern is durability.  So lets say he stays healthy.  Paul is a big physical dude -- lets say he comes into his own.  Leno doesn't lose a beat and stays solid.  Wylie's SB appearance is sign of things to come and he steps up like that.

 

If everything breaks right, I think the O line can be so so.  But I rarely see everything break right, so I expect 2 of those things to go wrong.  Which 2?  I got no idea.  But heck if I played glass half full, Dan is gone maybe Lady Luck shines on us for that reason.  We deserve some good karma. 

 

 

Agree on Paulson. Paulson will sometimes speak good of an individual and then break down the performance which may not seem to match his "good" assessment. His strengths to me lie in his play breakdowns. I enjoy listening to him especially when he does it in conjunction with Moss and Smoot and they throw in comments from their WR/DB perspective.

Just now, KDawg said:

It's hard to watch what we watched and come away with an overall good impression of the line.

 

I'd agree Cosmi was the best. He's very good in run blocking and at least decent in pass pro. That's a positive takeaway for sure.

 

Not sure "overall well" is a very good perspective on what we watched.

 

One thing I CAN say... Our line looked better than SF's. Yikes. 

SF may come down to earth if Purdy cant overcome poor OL play. Might be different with a good vet behind center but Purdy's lack of experience combined with available game film might be a bit much to overcome, especially early.

[FootballZombie]

 

 

At this point, I just roll over to the local salt truck depot and ingest as much as possible.

 

On a totally unrelated matter I seem to have side splitting kidney pain and sweat capable of seasoning french fries. 

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Agree on Paulson. Paulson will sometimes speak good of an individual and then break down the performance which may not seem to match his "good" assessment. His strengths to me lie in his play breakdowns. I enjoy listening to him especially when he does it in conjunction with Moss and Smoot and they throw in comments from their WR/DB perspective.

SF may come down to earth if Purdy cant overcome poor OL play. Might be different with a good vet behind center but Purdy's lack of experience combined with available game film might be a bit much to overcome, especially early.

 

My only issue with Paulsen is he can be very confusing if you listen to all his podcasts. Because things can jump around with him.   Let's take Wylie.  All comments more or less said by him in different podcasts.  

 

A. Doesn't look like the typical RT physically (that wasn't a complement)

B. Bieniemy's scheme can help cover someone with deficiences like Wylie 

C. Wylie really struggled with the backup D lineman in practice

D.  Montez Sweat seems like more than Wylie can handle in practice

E.  The type of pass rushers like Sweat seem to give Wylie problems

F.  He thinks Wylie will struggle against power rushers with good bull rushes

 

Then recently we got from Keim, Paulsen explaining to him that yeah Wylie has struggled with the 1 and 1's but he done much better when he's worked in tandem and had help in the 11 by 11s. 

 

And in the mix some sprinkled positive comments, like he thinks Wylie likely will be fine or can be solid or the unit playing together likely will be better than how they each are individually.  Or they are playing better recently.

 

A ton of different things in the soup.  And i eventually listen to all of that and i recall it but they don't all add up neatly.   if I combine it all together my vibe is Paulsen thinks Wylie is a below average player but not a disaster.  

 

Also its clear that Logan talks to the team's coaches and those coaches naturally work to sell him.  Bram like I said recently said the coaches actively did that last year, too.  with Logan even when he criticizes he says it so nicely that he doesn't come off critical.

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Riggo#44]

16 hours ago, Conn said:

ok now I’m convinced that the people who say that Rivera doesn’t know what analytics actually are, are correct. Happy for him that he’s just blissfully living his truth though, good for him 

Yeah, he's done.

 

I was a defender before Snyder sold the team, because we weren't going to do better. He's done a great job cleaning up the culture and keep us competitive. But we can do better now. I am excited about this season, I am downright giddy about the off-season.

[Bantu]

6 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Yeah, he's done.

 

I was a defender before Snyder sold the team, because we weren't going to do better. He's done a great job cleaning up the culture and keep us competitive. But we can do better now. I am excited about this season, I am downright giddy about the off-season.

 

I'm not a Ron "hater" by any means; however, I always thought he was in over his head as a personnel guy and this administration is just a perennial 7-8 win, Jeff Fisher level type organization. Four years is plenty for a sample size for Harris & Co. to assess.

 

A total house cleaning of front office, ENTIRE coaching staff, etc. should ensue at season's end. 

[Koolblue13]

Why is Quan getting roasted on twitter. Was he that bad?

[samy316]

28 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Why is Quan getting roasted on twitter. Was he that bad?

He wasn’t awful, but reports from Friday night’s game state that he looked a little bit lost in coverage.  I think he’s getting roasted, because of where he was picked in the draft, and his performance in that game.  It’s no secret that with our OL woes, and our question marks at TE, some feel that Quan has to deliver to make us forget the fact that we should’ve gone OL or TE at #47.  It’s unfair, but unfortunately Quan is going to be judged harshly going forward because of Ron & this FO’s stupidity in not shoring up positions of need (TE & OL), and drafting secondary back to back in Rounds 1-2 (which is already a position of strength for us).

Edited August 14, 2023 by samy316