Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins

The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins


Riggo-toni

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I don’t know, man. I think you may be right and most teams would. But the slander coming out of the Park kinda makes me think they low key hated the guy for years. Explains a lot, too.

 

nevermind, they posted one

 

image.thumb.png.b938ddbe6da55c9a6d120d75841e6b10.png

They were sure to show the knee brace for perspective. # Brace Young. 😆 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, NoCalMike said:

Chase Young's dad calling into the local radio show a couple days ago to go on defense was a pretty good sign Chase was getting traded.

That and Chase's effort, or lack thereof, on Sunday. It was clear as day he was playing not to get hurt so he could secure his trade to another team.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

That and Chase's effort, or lack thereof, on Sunday. It was clear as day he was playing not to get hurt so he could secure his trade to another team.

 

So do you think Chase is Lavar Arrington 2.0 as in, he has all the physical tools but refuses to play as a part of a unit, or do you think the coaches have seen something in Chase's game since returning that suggests his celing post-knee reconstruction is a lot lower then what he initially could have turned into?  

 

I think Chase can still end up a productive player in the NFL, it's not like his play is terrible out there, but I have noticed some tendencies in his game much like Lavar where when he abandons assignments to try and make flash plays, it leads to too many plays happening to his side of the field.  I just don't know if in his case it is more stubborness or his burst is gone and not coming back?  Maybe a combo of all the above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In his rookie year he was throwing caution to the wind and putting his body on the line chasing down plays. He doesn't play like that anymore and as Warhead said it was even more evident last week. Another wasted 1st round pick. Better get Forbes on some juice before he is next up on our list of busts.

Edited by rumplestilskin
  • Thumb up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

So do you think Chase is Lavar Arrington 2.0 as in, he has all the physical tools but refuses to play as a part of a unit, or do you think the coaches have seen something in Chase's game since returning that suggests his celing post-knee reconstruction is a lot lower then what he initially could have turned into?  

 

I think Chase can still end up a productive player in the NFL, it's not like his play is terrible out there, but I have noticed some tendencies in his game much like Lavar where when he abandons assignments to try and make flash plays, it leads to too many plays happening to his side of the field.  I just don't know if in his case it is more stubborness or his burst is gone and not coming back?  Maybe a combo of all the above.


Chase Young reminds me of Jadaveon Clowney.

  • Like 1
  • Thumb up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, rumplestilskin said:

In his rookie year he was throwing caution to the wind and putting his body on the line chasing down plays. He doesn't play like that anymore and as Warhead said it was even more evident last week. Another wasted 1st round pick. Better get Forbes on some juice before he is next up on our list of busts.

Laron Landry can get Forbes all buffed out.

  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MartinC said:

How many teams truly have a core of more than say 10 guys? Key is one of them has to be the QB.

 

I think it’s established that the core positions you need a blue chipper in are QB, LT (or RT if your QB is a lefty), WR, EDGE/passrusher and CB. I don’t think our issue is the number of roster spots we need to fill it’s that we don’t really have a true all pro or even perennial pro bowler at any of those spots. 
 

Closest we have is Terry at WR plus Jon Allen and Payne at DT (though they have not been generating sacks this season). Sam is showing everything we could have asked or expected so far (apart from a few less sacks please!) he may become that QB but we need to see a lot more for that be ticked off. But let’s assume he does become that guy, we need to find a stud LT, Edge and CB and that’s likely via the draft because studs in their prime at those positions don’t become avail often and if they do they cost you top top dollar.

 

QB - Let's see what Howell has

LT - Hope a first round tackle is it

WR - Sign future HOFer Mike Evans to complement Terry as a bigger option and let Jahan play in the slot

EDGE - Sign Danielle Hunter

CB - Could've been Gonzales but I got nothing for you :(

 

I know Evans and Hunter are both older guys who will be on the wrong side of 30 next season but I am willing to make the bet that each guy can sustain their production to some extent for the next 2-3 years while we are in the Sam Howell rookie QB window. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, method man said:

 

QB - Let's see what Howell has

LT - Hope a first round tackle is it

WR - Sign future HOFer Mike Evans to complement Terry as a bigger option and let Jahan play in the slot

EDGE - Sign Danielle Hunter

CB - Could've been Gonzales but I got nothing for you :(

 

I know Evans and Hunter are both older guys who will be on the wrong side of 30 next season but I am willing to make the bet that each guy can sustain their production to some extent for the next 2-3 years while we are in the Sam Howell rookie QB window. 

 

 

On the rookie window with Sam. He’s in the second year of a four year deal - no 5th year option. He can be extended after year 3 and if he continues to develop and plays to a say top 12 level we will be extending him at the end of next season. Can’t let it get to the end of year 4 and have to go down the franchise tag route. 
 

That rookie window probably closes end of next season.

 

Your core blue chip players are ideally guys you drafted or in their prime years. You want to be able to keep them together for a few years. Filling those slots with guys on the downswing (Evan’s) or guys like Hunter who is a very very good player but will want a market setting deal as he turns 30 is way less than ideal.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, MartinC said:

On the rookie window with Sam. He’s in the second year of a four year deal - no 5th year option. He can be extended after year 3 and if he continues to develop and plays to a say top 12 level we will be extending him at the end of next season. Can’t let it get to the end of year 4 and have to go down the franchise tag route. 
 

That rookie window probably closes end of next season.

 

Your core blue chip players are ideally guys you drafted or in their prime years. You want to be able to keep them together for a few years. Filling those slots with guys on the downswing (Evan’s) or guys like Hunter who is a very very good player but will want a market setting deal as he turns 30 is way less than ideal.


Due to sports science and other reasons, player are now able to extend their primes into their early 30s. The younger less talented guys seem to get the high AAVs and boatload of guaranteed money and some of these vets sign short term deals at a fraction of what those younger peers sign for and are more effective - Calais Campbell is a good example of this.

 

With all the cap space we have, sure roll some into next year but 1) swing big for legitimate stars, 2) trade picks for very good to great players like the elite teams do without incurring their signing bonus hits, 3) selectively resign our own (ex St Juste) and 4) give average players bargain money

 
I hear you that ideally you would go draft your blue chip guys but to take advantage of Sam’s rookie year window, it would need to happen now. I think we have 2 years because although Sam would get the big bonus at the end of year 3, his base salary in year 4 can still be very low.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, method man said:

I think we have 2 years because although Sam would get the big bonus at the end of year 3, his base salary in year 4 can still be very low.


I believe this is correct. The Year 4 cap hit would be his low base salary plus the prorated large signing bonus, which would still limit the cap hit. It wouldn’t be super low like it will be next year, but it wouldn’t skyrocket either. In essence there are two cheap years left for Sam — one super cheap year and then a reasonably cheap year before the cap hit really balloons.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

There's nuance to it.

 

Agree with your excellent post, mine was more a general fly by post highlighting we seem content to add low to mid range talent to pad the roster at the expense of adding real talent. We need to add that real talent via a targeted and structured approach in FA and the draft as you have noted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chicago Bears

 

They whiffed at the trade deadline a year ago, giving away what became the equivalent of a first-round pick for suspect wide receiver Chase Claypool, and did so again this year, trading a second-round pick for Washington Commanders defensive end Montez Sweat and not moving disgruntled cornerback Jaylon Johnson. Multiple general managers — who spoke on the condition of anonymity to be candid without damaging their ability to negotiate with teams in the future — complained that the Bears waited until effectively midnight to make Johnson available, minimizing the window to land him.

“[Bears General Manager Ryan] Poles f---ed it up again,” said one general manager who was in the cornerback market.

 

“You can’t wait until midnight and then tell everyone in the middle of the night, ‘Now he can seek a trade,’ ” said another general manager, “and then expect teams to compete to negotiate the deal and get to know the player and work something out with the agent. That should have happened two weeks ago.” Another executive who was in talks with Poles said: “He has a really difficult time under the clock. Personally, I don’t get what they did. That’s going to be, what, the 35th pick for Sweat?” Others also panned that deal.

“You can’t make that trade without having him signed,” the second general manager said. “Can you imagine what happens if Sweat gets hurt and they don’t have a deal? What’s the comp pick going to be then [if he leaves as a free agent]? I heard he was going to Atlanta for a [third-round pick] and then Poles swooped in and blew them away. I don’t get it.”

And with the Bears at 2-6, Sweat is unlikely to turn around another lost season.

 

“Doesn’t make sense for where Chicago is,” the first general manager said. “I’d have rather just traded [a third-round pick] for Chase Young” — the other Commanders edge rusher who went to the San Francisco 49ers at that price. “They should have been selling.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/11/01/nfl-trade-deadline-winners-losers/

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does this mean for the direction of the franchise?

This means it has future assets. Washington now has three draft picks among the top 50 in 2024 and five in the top 100. The Commanders also have glaring needs along the defensive line and could use help in their back seven on defense, among other spots. They also have approximately $90 million in salary cap space. They can attack free agency and the draft.

Washington still wants to win this season, despite what trading Chase and Sweat might look like. The Commanders did not want to unload all of their pending free agents because they want to compete in 2023. That's one reason, a team source said, they did not trade backup quarterback Jacoby Brissett; they want to be covered in case something happens to starter Sam Howell. Washington coach Ron Rivera has made it clear how much he values Brissett.

The extra draft capital gives them the ability to collect more young talent -- or be aggressive if they want to trade up. Owner Josh Harris, who also owns the Philadelphia 76ers, has watched the Philadelphia Eagles operate in this manner.

 

Why did Commanders trade both of their defensive ends?

Both would be free agents this offseason, and, based on these moves, the team no longer wanted to invest as heavily in one position group. Now, one source said, the Commanders can build a more balanced roster through spending and draft picks. Washington already had paid two other first-round picks along the front in Payne and Allen. The group was supposed to provide the foundation for defensive success. But Rivera was honest when asked whether they had played to the level he anticipated this season.

"Not consistently enough," he said. "You see it, but you've got to see it all the time, and that's really the mark of when it really comes together, is that it's consistent."

Throughout the offseason, team sources said they wanted to extend Sweat. And, if Young produced, they could always use the franchise tag on him and keep both players. After all, if Howell played well, it gave them a young quarterback on a rookie contract. Plus, Washington has all that cap space for 2024. The combination added up to keeping both -- if the Commanders wanted.

 

  • 2dESPN staff

But, while Sweat and Young had combined for 11.5 sacks this season, the team had lost five of its past six games. Internally, multiple sources said, it became clear the Commanders needed more help elsewhere -- and it would be difficult to keep Sweat or Young. Sweat would have been the preferred choice long term, one source said, but the potential cost of his deal -- Spotrac listed his market value around $25 million a year -- combined with the Bears' offer made trading him the best option. Had it only been a third-round pick, a source said, it's unlikely the team would have traded Sweat.

There was also concern, multiple sources said, about Young's long-term durability after he suffered not only a torn ACL but also a ruptured patellar tendon in his right knee in 2021. Indeed, sources said, medical concerns prevented some teams who had expressed interest from making an offer.

Another factor hinged on potential compensatory picks. Because Washington has a lot of cap space, it can be active in free agency. If the Commanders sign an expensive player, it would negate what they might have lost in Sweat or Young -- and they would not have received a compensatory pick.

There were also concerns about the lack of on-field chemistry among the starting defensive line, multiple sources said. According to sources, when Rivera said three weeks ago that the mantra of "Do Your Job" was directed as much at the defensive line as any group, Young was a particular target of that message; one source said the team viewed trading him as "addition by subtraction." A source said a lack of gap discipline impacted not only the pass rush but defending the run.

The coaching staff also knew that, two years ago, when Washington played without Sweat and/or Young for six games, it went 4-2 and improved in every key statistical category -- going from allowing 29.9 points per game to 17.5 and from 400 yards allowed to 284. But Sweat and Young are also having more productive seasons than in 2021.

Finally, for Washington to improve this season it'll take a lot more help from the back seven. The Commanders rank 31st in points and 29th in yards because that group has a lot of holes. If they don't stop allowing big plays -- they lead the NFL in 22 pass plays allowed of 25 or more yards -- then not enough will change to turn their season around.

 

play


What does this mean for Ron Rivera and his staff?

Because it's the fourth year under Rivera -- and they have a new owner in Harris -- the staff was already under the impression it needs to produce this season to stick around, as one coach said recently. At 3-5, and with no winning season yet, they have not produced.

 

But this could also help them. If Washington can right its season, Rivera & Co. can make a stronger case for being retained after making moves the owner approved and then showing they could still win. And they'd also have left the franchise in a good spot for the future. Rivera has said this season also is about seeing whether Howell can be the long-term answer at quarterback.

Before the season, Rivera told ESPN he didn't worry about his future.

"If we go 8-8-1 this year and he fires me and next year they win the division and 40 of the 53 players we drafted and it's the same quarterback, I'm vindicated," Rivera said. "Send me my Super Bowl ring. That's the way I look at it. I want us to be right and to see this community have that excitement again."


What involvement did new owner Josh Harris have in the decision?

Harris, of course, was involved in the process -- as any owner would be. But his style also represents change for Washington, which was used to a more frenetic decision-making process under previous owner Daniel Snyder, multiple sources said.

In this situation, Harris tasked the front office with collecting information -- in the form of offers. General manager Martin Mayhew and assistant general manager Marty Hurney solicited offers on multiple players, then involved Rivera. The group then took those offers to Harris, who quizzed them about the potential deals. He wanted to understand the process, why they might want to keep a particular player, or why, say, a third-round pick for Young represented good value. Then they'd make a collective decision. Sometimes they rejected a deal -- like a sixth-round offer by one team for quarterback Brissett, according to sources.

It's the same way he has operated with the other pro sports teams he owns, including the 76ers and the New Jersey Devils.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38788272/why-commanders-traded-chase-young-montez-sweat-nfl-trade-deadline

Edited by Skinsinparadise
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, justice98 said:

I look forward to turning on ESPN this morning to find out how this impacts the Cowboys in some way.  lol


They spent more time talking about whether this made sense for San Francisco.  Some said it was a no brainer, some said they can't use the players they have right now, another rotational DL won't change scheme.

As for the cowboys, all they wanted to talk about was how they didn't make a run at Derrick Henry.  We aren't on their radar folks.

 

22 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim’s podcast

E. Major implications about Chase’s knee and longevity 

 

F. Suggested from an analytics standpoint over investing in the D line doesn’t make sense and it gives them the flexibility to build the rest of the roster especially the O line 

 

G. To justify overspending on the D line they’d have needed to play to a really high level this season abs it didn’t happen 


I wouldn't take this advice in a vaccuum. There's a time when spending on a position like DL can make an impact.  The problem is this team fundamentally has so many problems, and is great at nothing except for Tres Way.   While you might not have much change in line play with less cash spent there, cash available elsewhere could have an effect on how many snaps those DL have to be on the field.  Offense is its own defense, and EB has a playbook that can quickly shift the field, if Howell get's even a small bit more of time IMO.
 

21 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Thanks. To confirm the trade only benefit was getting us a late 3rd a year sooner and saving money this year. Seems like Chase has very little value / no demand for him. Whats it cost to move up a year for the same pick - a 5th maybe. 

 

I thought I read comp picks round calcs were dynamic based on demand contract amount etc.


They are based on a combination of what was lost compared to what we signed.  Some contracts are excluded I think.  But you have to figure we will have a few high priced FA but maybe not more than 3.   
 

21 hours ago, MartinC said:

No idea on that. I was a bit surprised they could trade a comp pick in the first place.

I’m British - if I’m insulting you that is a compliment. Usually. 

 We have circa $90M of cap space for 24 right now. Assumption is we will be active in free agency so chances are we wouldn’t have got any comp pick for Young anyway. 
 

Demand for Young seems low - unsurprisingly - so he probably won’t get a huge deal anyway from anyone either. So to your point any comp pick would have been likely lower than what we got from the 49ers as well.


Active as in lots of signings to make? Absolutely.  Active as in trying to land the top 5 people on our list at any price like Vinny C? Likely not.  I do think we spend a bit to get a real impact long term player at a position we can focus depth on draft or journeyman, but there's no reason to spend all of that Capital right now, if Howell is the deal, we will have to resign him next year to avoid the Cousins Tag and loss system.  Keeping some in the bank for when we need key resignings makes sense.  Provided we actually try to spend it when needed.

Washington Fans have gotten too use at manipulating the cap and getting whatever, I think we need impactful players more than full cap space.  


 

21 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

... truncated


My take on the contract situation:

 

Let's look at Defensive Backs first
CB Kendall Fuller is gone without extension, sign or don't sign, not sure it matters

S Kamren Curl is not under contract according to sport track in 2024.  Unless we are paying him a sizable increase, he may be gone, so now we may need a Safety somewhere.

CB Danny Johnson is one of those players I always think is getting cut, but manages to make the roster.  He's 29 next year, dead cap of 875K.  There is savings to be had there, but if we can't retain Fuller and Curl... How many DBs do you bring in the same year?  You want to spread these losses out over time I think.

Likely Staying:
CB Ben St-Juste - has 1 moer year on rookie deal.  reasonable numbers, no reason not to keep unless he doesn't fit a new defensive scheme, but it will be telling if we extend him going into the year to put off having to make a choice the following year.

CB Jartavius Martin - He's a 24 year old 2nd year player next year, rookie contracts are cheap, and he's depth if nothing else, With Fuller and Curl maybe gone, figure we see what we have in him for 2 more years minimum.

S Percy Butler - 3rd year fo rookie deal, no reason to move on yet that I've seen.

CB Christian Homes - 2 years left on deal figure he stays.


Linebackers:

LB Jamin Davis - he's still on a rookie deal, will we extend his fifth year option will be telling.  Extension means we get one more look at hime at a discount perhaps, but if we get new D Scheme, he might be trade fodder.  I see no reason to outright cut him based on cap/dead cap numbers

LB Khaleke Hudson - is 26 in his 4th year next year, and not under contract.  Did we see enough to extend him?  I can't remember which position he plays in the corp which might be a bad sign.

OLB David Mayo - Is not signed for next year, not sure he's done enough to stay, but if his asks are resonable he could be good depth in rotation.


Dline

Chase and Sweat are already gone:

DE Efe Obada - is 32 next year, and not under contract.  Could be a depth resigning but figure he will want more than what we paid him last year for any length of time.  Given we lost two ends, it could be a short prove it deal.

DE James Smith-Williams - is not signed for next year, will be in 4th year and 27.   As a depth signing maybe, but I wouldn't over pay for him when we may draft at least one DE anyways.

DE Casey toohill - also not signed for next year, but 28 next year, same as with Smith-Williams


DT Phidarian Mathis is on year 2 of his rookie deal, no reason to do anything with him yet

DT Daron Payne

DT Jon Allen

About those Tight ends:

TE Logan Thomas - has 1 year left and a dead cap of 1.750 if cut next year.   I tend to think while his injury history might open us up to doing this move, we have NOTHING else at TE on roster, I'd not get rid of him unless we get a quality FA signing and a quality TE Draft pick (and we'd still need two moer guys minimum for camp)  We may have no choiec but to keep him next year.

TE John Bates - has 1 year left on his contract as a rookie, given how week we are at this position, unless he's a complete awful scheme fit or player, we should extend him because we want at least one TE to be staying more than a year.  

TE Cole Turner - has 2 years left on his rookie deal, so that makes 2 TEs from the first three will likely be staying.  I don't know that we've seen enough from bates or turner to not look in FA or draft for better though.

Oline:

OT Charles Leno - Dead cap is 8.250 million cutting him means 3 depth guys we can't sign, and we still need an OT for depth and starter most likely.  It's true he's 15.75 million on the books, but I would not be surprised to see them extend him 2 years to spread this hit out and keep him on the roster.  It might save 7 million though if I'm reading this right.

OT Cornelius Lucas - Yup he's gone without an extension, not sure if he showed enough, but at 32 hard to imagine we keep him.  We need younger guys up front.  (so if both he and leno go that's 2 LT gone)

T Samuel Cosmi has 1 year left on a rookie deal if he's in long term plans he will likely command some salary.  If we are losing 2 other tackles his youth at least gives the prospect of growth.  But he's cheap and low dead cap number means they don't have to keep him either.

T Andrew Wyliie has 2 more years, sporttrack suggests 2025 out possibility, but could be cut for 7.833 mil deadcap, saving only 2 mill on the cap.

LG Sahdiq Charles was on IR and contract expires.  He might be extendable for a reasonable amount, depends on what the football people think of his development before the injury.   

G Nick Gates will be 29 next year, but has 2 years left, figure we hang on to him for depth at the very least could be gone in 25 easily enough.

G Trenton Scott - has 1 year left on his deal with manageable numbers.  but even at 30 his deadcap is dust.  Keep, cut or trade, it has little impact on next year

G Chris Paul - 3rd year of Rookie deal, no reason to move on though dead cap is 52k.  If we sign a lot of competition on the Oline and he's an odd man out it does nothing for dead cap calculus.

C Tyler Larsen - 32 years contract is up.  Centers might be easy to find, but he might be retained on a cheap deal if he's good depth

C Ricky Stromberg - is a rookie on a cheap deal figure he stays even if just as depth.

Sklled O
WR Curtis Samuel - I didn't realize this was last year of his deal, and he's only 27, but have we used him enough, and does he still have the giddy up?  if we can resign to a modest 3 year extension I'd be okay with keeping him, but I wouldn't over pay to do so when I can draft younger guys to fill his role.

RB Gibson - I see no reason he gets retained with his fumbling issue.  Unless he shows out down the stretch, which I doubt he's just not in future plans.  That's okay Young RBs can always be found to replace him.  (Unless we move him back to WR to replace Samuel not sure his hands are good enough though)

QB Brisset - unless we intend to resign him for 9 million or multi year as backup, he's likely gone at 31. (so we need a backup QB.)

WR Dyami Brown -I mentioned in another post how hard it really is to evaluate th receivers because of the sack count, which I credit both Howell, scheme, and OL for.  Dyami's position is the hardest, because if he's supposed to take the cap off the defense, if sam has no time to let that develop then even that role is hard to judge.  He's in a contract year next year, I see no reason to extend him early, and that may be a mistake if he balls out next year.

RB Brian Robinson - 25 year old RB who has shown some juice at times.  2 years left, figure he stays for sure unless someone comes with an offer too tempting to pass up, but I doubt that happens

WR Jamison Crowder - is he only really there as an emergency receiver and punt returner?  He's no signed for next year.

Just because I think it should be mentioned:
P Tres Way - has 1 year left, and is only 600k dead cap.  If we wanted to move on from the 34 Year old next year for any reason we can do so and not feel it.  I like Tres I don't think they do this, but all things may be on the table this offseason.  


This isn't everyone obviously but we will have a lof holes on the DL, LB and DB field to fill, and the OL needs at least 2 tackles 1 Starter likely.

Note some of these players may have shown some stuff, but if we are rebuilding and players may not show enough to extend during next year, the cause to keep them is a push.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting how candid they were about the Bears GM...he is really a disaster...Thank goodness!!! So nice to take advantage instead of being taken. 

 

Glad Rivera did have a part in the process, a process that makes sense...another unusual  event for Washington fans

 

Knowing they had a offer a 6th for Brissett and it was rejected was probably the right move. My take was a 5th would buy him. 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...