The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[MartinC]

The idea the defense could improve without Young and Sweat is possible. But then if that’s the case why the hell didn’t coaches just bench say Young if he wasn’t doing his job within the scheme. 
 

I am so out on this coaching staff - especially on defense. Might be the worst staff in the league.

[Dan T.]

Just now, MartinC said:

The idea the defense could improve without Young and Sweat is possible. But then if that’s the case why the hell didn’t coaches just bench say Young if he wasn’t doing his job within the scheme. 
 

I am so out on this coaching staff - especially on defense. Might be the worst staff in the league.

 

Jackl Del Rio should have been gone a year and a half ago.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Of course they could be right. Just not sure I trust anything a set of failing coaches say on thier way out the door. Again, even if what they say is true it's more a poor reflection on them not being able to get he personalities to work together than a problem with the players. Also, did Young come inthat way or did the toxic environment the dan fostered do that to him? 

 

Again, I think trading him was a good for the long term building of the team. Just not buying the coaches bull**** right now. 

 

Lol, no one would accuse me of defending Ron this year.

 

The only thing I'll say on his behalf is the league clearly isn't high on Chase right now either.

 

Personally, i am a Chase guy.  Volsemt used to make fun of me, calling me Chase obsessed before that draft.  Do I buy the stories about his immaturity and league wide concerns about his durability?  Yes.  Do I think he will ball anyway at SF?  Yes.    I like Chase.  But its clear as Standig said today the perception around the league about Chase isn't the same as fans.

 

But as a fan, I am still a big Chase guy.  I am OK with the move though for reasons I explained. 

 

[PolarExpress]

1 hour ago, skinsfan66 said:

Give me 29 year old Terry any day of the week. They are not on the same level first. Maybe do the deal for Dotson.? Maybe not? Terry is a leader by action, produces and earns his money every week, he does not need the spot light. Does not complain about having a new QB ever year, he is a player you hope they turn it around for. McLarin is a piece of the puzzle and it would be a Bonehead trade.  That's my opinion.

I agree.  To even mention trading Terry is nuts.  He’s doing his job very well.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, MartinC said:

The idea the defense could improve without Young and Sweat is possible. But then if that’s the case why the hell didn’t coaches just bench say Young if he wasn’t doing his job within the scheme. 
 

I am so out on this coaching staff - especially on defense. Might be the worst staff in the league.

 

Reading between the lines with some of these narratives by beat guys.  Almost feels like having Sweat and Young made the defensive staff lazy.  They thought we have 4 studs on the D line they will dominate and the rest will take care of itself.  When that didn't happened they resented them for it.  The resentment was highest for Chase because apparently they felt he was the worst of the bunch as to the chemistry of that unit -- and supposedly was immature in the locker room.

 

But overall I put it on Ron.  He's the GM as to power.  He's the defensive minded HC.  He's the dude who has made the snarky comments about Chase over the years.  And now leaking it to his pal Michael Silver.

 

Sheehan on air just a little while ago said their disenchantment with Chase started in his first off season after his rookie year where they started leaking it to the local media.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But as a fan, I am still a big Chase guy.  I am OK with the move though for reasons I explained. 

 

 

I'm looking at it this way.  Maybe it'll help boost SF enough that they'll take care of the Eagles and Cowboys in any NFC playoff games.  Go Chase!  LOL

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

3 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

 

Actually, he was waiting for the Jumbo-tron to show Sweat signing the trade papers before he believed the trade occurred. Then yelled at the agents for telling him his flag was too late.........

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Lol, no one would accuse me of defending Ron this year.

 

The only thing I'll say on his behalf is the league clearly isn't high on Chase right now either.

 

Personally, i am a Chase guy.  Volsemt used to make fun of me, calling me Chase obsessed before that draft.  Do I buy the stories about his immaturity and league wide concerns about his durability?  Yes.  Do I think he will ball anyway at SF?  Yes.    I like Chase.  But its clear as Standig said today the perception around the league about Chase isn't the same as fans.

 

But as a fan, I am still a big Chase guy.  I am OK with the move though for reasons I explained. 

 

 

I think we are basically saying the same thing here jsut the degree at which we blame Chase being immature for his failures vs blaming the coaching staff (BTW I see it more a JDR issue than Ron). I get the league may be down on him. Ok. Is that so they can get him cheaper? Is that becasue they buy JDRs BS? Maybe he is a complete POS. I don't think so. I really like Chase. But like you I am 100% in agreement with trading him. 

 

Doing a little introspection. I guess I am not a fan of kicking a player as they moved. Looks very weak. And i was one of tthe later holdouts on Ron. Why not jsut STFU and let him go. No need to trash him on the way out. 

[HigSkin]

 

[ntotoro]

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

I think we are basically saying the same thing here jsut the degree at which we blame Chase being immature for his failures vs blaming the coaching staff (BTW I see it more a JDR issue than Ron). I get the league may be down on him. Ok. Is that so they can get him cheaper? Is that becasue they buy JDRs BS? Maybe he is a complete POS. I don't think so. I really like Chase. But like you I am 100% in agreement with trading him.

 

I think it's because they see average Tackles moving him in a semi-circle around the QB, they seem him leaving a hole for a runner where he should be making a tackle, they see the moments of lacking effort, they see even TE's getting him off-balance and they see how he feasts against some bad Tackles, but disappears for entire games (like the last one against Philly).

 

I know people don't like JDR as an individual, but Chase's shortcomings are all on him. You can't just force a guy to get right. See: Arrington, Lavar.

[CjSuAvE22]

11 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

 

Jackl Del Rio should have been gone a year and a half ago.

This defense has been ranked 4th 25th and 7th the last  three years...i dont get why people think JDR is some inept idiot a top ten defense in this day in the NFL is pretty dang good imo 2 outta 3 years. Its not realistic to have a defense over perform several years in a row anymore, there are too many ways to keep drives open and offenses are just simply too good these days. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by CjSuAvE22

[HigSkin]

For sure...

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, Conn said:

Take a step back with me for a moment. You seem more angry at an unfolding future with Harris hiring an actual GM to manage things than you ever were about Snyder—even the latter Snyder/Rivera years. I never saw you post like this about the haunting inevitability of failure under Snyder. 
 

You were off-puttingly negative on Harris from day 1 because of your extreme anger towards the way the guys they drafted with the high Process picks didn’t work out in the NBA. Okay.

 

But it almost feels like you hate Harris so much that you set yourself up to be upset at him obviously having to move on from Rivera’s reign of terror, by suddenly becoming the world’s biggest fan of Rivera “stability” this past offseason. So now you’re pissed.

 

Okay. What’s next? If Harris hires a coveted, respectable GM candidate who then leads the process of building the rest of the football side of the org with his chosen HC candidate, are you on board? 
 

 

 

Agree.

 

I am not an NBA guy.  i do watch casually and ironically I might see a 76ers game in person this year.

 

But as for Harris striking out with that team, its far from a consensus thought.

 

Standig who is a basketball freak, used to cover the Wizards, loved what Harris did and lauded the process.  He goes it landed them Embid, they win 50 plus games every year and are always relevant, he'd kill for that for the Wizards. 

 

Most in Philly have said the same, and a couple are like @Going Commando hating it.

 

I am not educated enough to weigh in.  But i am educated enough to listening to all of the narratives about his runs in Philly and NJ, and most LOVE the work he's done.  And in Philly he has two haters.  Eskin being one of them who hates that he doesn't interfere with his FO -- he associates that to not caring.  Hates the idea of an arena in downtown Philly and hates that he bought this team.  He sees him as a carpetbagger and not a true Philly guy.

 

But as we posted in the owners thread.  Most have not just liked Harris but gushed about him.  I recall one reporter who covers the Eagles and 76ers talked him up so much, he was like it sucks for the Eagles that now Washington has a competent owner.  Joe Banner who was Howie Roseman's mentor and knows Harris and knows more importantly some people who worked with Harris -- said from what he's seen Harris is special.

 

But again i don't expect any owner to mean wins and loses.  i want an owner who does the three things i mentioned in a prior post.  And the "process" was basically about doing a hardcore rebuild and taking pain now for more pleasure later.  I am OK with that approach. If i want to tread water or worse, we've had plenty of that for the last 30 years.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[woodpecker]

24 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I understand that not everyone follows the NBA, so I'll explain the context: when you have 10 years of a transcendent 7 footer who is a truly dominant two-way player--Joel Embiid--then it is a colossal failure to never make it past the second round of the playoffs.  Those kinds of players can single-handedly take you to an NBA Finals.  They've been the surest ticket to winning multiple championships in the NBA since the 1950s.  You are guaranteed 50 wins per regular season with them, and you will almost never miss the playoffs or go out in round one in any healthy year for them.  Making the second round of the NBA playoffs is nothing, it's something that even the crap franchises like the Wizards can do--a minimal expectation for a team that is supposed to be a contender.  Now consider that the 76ers haven't just had Joel Embiid since Harris bought them.  They also had two #1 overall picks and another #3 overall pick, a #6 overall pick, as well as three other late lottery picks.  Not a single one of those other picks are still on the team, nor did they bring in anything of notable long term benefit.  They had Jimmie Butler in house and let him walk in order to keep Tobias Harris.  Jimmie Butler went on to lead Miami to two Finals appearances.  They spent their other #3 overall pick on Jahlil Okafor, who had zero chance of thriving alongside Embiid and was an immediate bust.  They spent their two #1s on Markelle Fultz and Ben Simmons, both busts, both also gone.  Simmons was traded to get James Harden, who was also just traded for about 20 cents on the dollar.  Now they're stuck telling themselves that they can still contend with Embiid and Tyrese Maxey until Embiid finally says enough is enough and asks out to spend the few prime years he has left on a real contender.  It's depressing, and the whole Trust the Process era is going to be infamous among NBA fans for a long time.

 

I get hating Snyder and being grateful for any change.  I also get that fans have zero power to influence outcomes for their favorite teams, and that assuming optimism as a default outlook feels better.  I just can't lie to myself about this owner or give him such a big benefit of the doubt.  When I see him make mistakes or do something unacceptable, I'm going to acknowledge it.  I'm not interested in false hope any more, and every year I become less invested in this awful franchise.

OK. So sounds like he had the superstar player you need. And he got the lottery picks you need to put the talent around him. So the ingredients were there for a championship team, but some of the picks didn’t work out and they fell short. Maybe the GM making those picks wasn’t the greatest? Or maybe that’s just the way it goes with draft picks sometimes. But it seems like you are making my point more than yours… The process was correct even if the results haven’t been. As a wizards fan, I know enough to tell you that second round of the playoffs is certainly not easy for them. Not at all. In fact, I only remember once, when they lost to Boston. So again, I think you are throwing out exaggerations to try to make your point, which actually takes away from your point.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I think we are basically saying the same thing here jsut the degree at which we blame Chase being immature for his failures vs blaming the coaching staff (BTW I see it more a JDR issue than Ron). I get the league may be down on him. Ok. Is that so they can get him cheaper? Is that becasue they buy JDRs BS? Maybe he is a complete POS. I don't think so. I really like Chase. But like you I am 100% in agreement with trading him. 

 

Doing a little introspection. I guess I am not a fan of kicking a player as they moved. Looks very weak. And i was one of tthe later holdouts on Ron. Why not jsut STFU and let him go. No need to trash him on the way out. 

 

We are close to the same position, indeed.

 

The immaturity about Chase wasn't defined at all by his play.   I've heard now 6 different beat guys-radio personality referenced some off the field stories about Chase, they have not been specific yet about what these stories are.  But I've been through that rodeo before about other players -- eventually those stories are leaked.

 

But getting past whatever that is, I agree don't kick him out the door.  Shows no class.  And Ron shouldn't resent Chase.  If he screwed up the pick, that's on him.  Personally, I still think though he has a chance and I expect him to ball in SF.  And yeah I do think they should have traded him --it sounds like its best for Chase to move on, too.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan66]

17 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Leno will be in the final year of his deal and can save us $14m if we cut him. It's a no-brainer to me, especially if we are able to draft an anchor LT.

 

Only way I could see him staying on is if we draft an LT but plan to start him at RT, and keep Leno around 1 more year to hold down the LT spot before flipping the rookie over in 2024, and moving Wylie to Guard where I think he's better. 

 

Maybe the most likely scenario would be to draft an OT in R1, put them at RT ... slide Wylie to compete at LG with a rookie 2nd or 3rd round Guard pick. Then draft another OT in R4 or R5 to back-up at RT. I get continuity and not just cutting cause they can save money to be wasted elsewhere, but with a new FO and coaching staff coming in, I could see a lot more turnover than normal.

I like the only way. 14,000 for a starting average LT is not bad, the RT spot is the bigger need.  Cut Wiley after june1?  Same as Gates? 

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

2 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

This defense has been ranked 4th 25th and 7th the last  three years...i dont get why people think JDR is some inept idiot top ten defense in this day in the NFL is pretty dang good imo. Its not realistic to have a defense over perform several years in a row anymore, there are too many ways to keep drives open and offenses are just simply too good these days. 

I think JDR is/was arrogant on 3rd downs. Opposing offenses knew he would only rush the 4 (or maybe 5) and had protections to counter exposing our weak LB's coverage skills for easy 3rd down conversions OR they baited Chase's aggression and got the check down/RB to the outside...then the D just wore down over the game with these long drives.

 

That AND by overemphasizing turnovers during training camp they got the DB's jumping routes making them susceptible for double moves and big plays.

 

Poor coaching...BUT with Sweat and Young gone..maybe the execution of the game plan will be more disciplined.

[MartinC]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Reading between the lines with some of these narratives by beat guys.  Almost feels like having Sweat and Young made the defensive staff lazy.  They thought we have 4 studs on the D line they will dominate and the rest will take care of itself.  When that didn't happened they resented them for it.  The resentment was highest for Chase because apparently they felt he was the worst of the bunch as to the chemistry of that unit -- and supposedly with immature in the locker room.

 

But overall I put it on Ron.  He's the GM as to power.  He's the defensive minded HC.  He's the dude who has made the snarky comments about Chase over the years.  And now leaking it to his pal Michael Silver.

 

Sheehan on air just a little while ago said their disenchantment with Chase started in his first off season after his rookie year where they started leaking it to the local media.

Lazy gets you fired in most professions - at some point. 
 

The failure to both hold players accountable and also to adjust approach based on (lack of) results falls firmly on the coaching staff and ultimately the HC.

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, Conn said:

Take a step back for a moment. You seem more angry at an unfolding future with Harris hiring an actual GM to manage things than you ever were about Snyder—even the latter Snyder/Rivera years. I never saw you post like this about the haunting inevitability of failure under Snyder. 
 

You were off-puttingly negative on Harris from day 1 because of your extreme anger towards the way the guys they drafted with the high Process picks didn’t work out in the NBA. Okay.

 

But it almost feels like you hate Harris so much that you set yourself up to be upset at him obviously having to move on from Rivera’s reign of terror, by suddenly becoming the world’s biggest fan of Rivera “stability” this past offseason. So now you’re pissed.

 

Okay. What’s next? If Harris hires a coveted, respectable GM candidate who then leads the process of building the rest of the football side of the org with his chosen HC candidate, are you on board?

 

I'm pissed and completely disillusioned that the exact scenarios I feared with Harris are already playing out just months into his ownership.  I've had a bad feeling about him ever since it leaked that it was probably him who tried to hire Sean Payton before he even bought the damn team.  And I am feeling genuinely hopeless because I think we went from the frying pan to the fire with another bad, meddlesome owner who doesn't know anything.  I think the big difference with this group is that they're just a lot more PR savvy and capable of selling their decisions to the media and their fan bases.  I didn't even like Ron Rivera or his regime, and I still can't stand to see the way this has played out.  The way this team operates still feels so dysfunctional.

 

I don't know if I can get on board with this new ownership.  I just don't believe in them or expect them to get the difficult decisions they have to make right.  I don't want to see the football equivalent of Daryl Morey GMing this team, and that is exactly what I think is going to happen.  I don't trust Harris to stay out of the way either, and I don't want to buy his NFL version of Trust the Process for even a second.  But the only thing I can do is wait and see who he hires and hope that every instinct I have about him is wrong.  It feels like **** and I'm tired of being on this hamster wheel and helplessly watching the same patterns of failure playing out over and over again.

[Warhead36]

I'd love to hire the NFL's version of Morey. An outside the box forward thinker? Sign me up.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[MartinC]

5 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I'm pissed and completely disillusioned that the exact scenarios I feared with Harris are already playing out just months into his ownership.  I've had a bad feeling about him ever since it leaked that it was probably him who tried to hire Sean Payton before he even bought the damn team.  And I am feeling genuinely hopeless because I think we went from the frying pan to the fire with another bad, meddlesome owner who doesn't know anything.  I think the big difference with this group is that they're just a lot more PR savvy and capable of selling their decisions to the media and their fan bases.  I didn't even like Ron Rivera or his regime, and I still can't stand to see the way this has played out.  The way this team operates still feels so dysfunctional.

 

I don't know if I can get on board with this new ownership.  I just don't believe in them or expect them to get the difficult decisions they have to make right.  I don't want to see the football equivalent of Daryl Morey GMing this team, and that is exactly what I think is going to happen.  I don't trust Harris to stay out of the way either, and I don't want to buy his NFL version of Trust the Process for even a second.  But the only thing I can do is wait and see who he hires and hope that every instinct I have about him is wrong.  It feels like **** and I'm tired of being on this hamster wheel and helplessly watching the same patterns of failure playing out over and over again.

Wait and see who they hire as GM and if they hire him to hire the HC or hire a HC first. That will tell us a lot. 

[skinsfan66]

Some here would say not signing Young was the wrong move. Show me is what I wanted and I am so glad Ron did too. Young increased his value which was next to nothing. We got something a 3. Young improved and SF may be better for it but so are the Commanders at this point. Glad we did not sign him. 

[markmills67]

51 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I honestly haven't looked. But here's what happened in 2023:

- RT Mike McGlinchey - 5 years $87.5m ($6m cap hit in 2023)

- RT Jawaan Taylor - 4 years $80m ($5.8m cap hit in 2023)

- LT Orlando Brown - 4 years $64m ($10.3m cap hit in 2023)

- RT Kaleb McGary - 3 Years $34m ($5.5m cap hit in 2023)

- OT Andre Dillard - 3 Years $30m ($2.5m cap hit in 2023)

 

And then there was Andrew Wylie, who we signed to a 3 year $24m deal with a $4.1m 2023 cap hit. And I think we see how that has gone.

 

In my mind, I could see us going after a Jawaan Taylor through Kaleb McGary ... go get someone that can step in and upgrade RT immediately, even if you slightly overpay. Once you get Leno, Gates and Wylie off the books, your OL is full on rookie contracts. Go spend on the OL. And then draft on the OL.

 

I would be ALL for signing a good LG (Nate Davis type) ... a good RT (Kaleb McGary type) and then drafting an OT and OG ... 

 

OT: Rookie 1st round LT, Good FA RT signing, Wylie, Rookie mid-Round OT, Daniels

OG: Cosmi, Good FA LG Signing, mid-round IOL, Gates

C: Stromberg, veteran FA signing

We could also see what we have in Chris Paul at LG, could save us some money if he plays well rest of season. 

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

**** you, it was a 7th.