The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[FootballZombie]

Just now, Chris 44 said:

Getting a "Premier" OL in FA is going to be very pricey, granted we may have the cap room, but Im thinking draft may be the way to go?

 

pfft

 

gotta hit both resources w/ this oline.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, Chris 44 said:

Getting a "Premier" OL in FA is going to be very pricey, granted we may have the cap room, but Im thinking draft may be the way to go?

 

I think we clearly need 2 starting OTs. Wylie isn't cutting it ... Leno is not good and is a clear cap casualty. MAYBE we bring back Lucas on the cheap and draft a pair of OTs, but I can't see us rolling into 2024 with 2 new rookie OTs. I feel like a high-end RT and a rookie LT is the right way to go. And we should have $100+ million in cap space to play with, which goes really far with long-term contracts ... I'll do the math here in a few to see what we would have in my hypothetical scenario above

[MrJL]

1 minute ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I was wondering the same thing but my assumption right now is that we likely are on the hooks for most of their remaining 2023 contracts. 

usually when that happens it's mentioned, and as they're on their rookie deals we're not talking super high hits so I can see Chicago and San Fran taking them

[skinsfan66]

31 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

Hi all. Can’t tell you how pleased I am with the last 24 hours. Picks and cap space! Yay! It’s been so long since this franchise actually made forward thinking moves. Harris so far has been exactly as advertised and I couldn’t be happier. The GM hire will be far and away the most important thing he does, and these moves are making it much more likely that he hits on a good one.

I blame the Cardinals for this, for giving away Dobbs for a ham sandwich. Otherwise, I bet we would’ve been offered more. Personally, I would’ve taken the sixth, but your points are valid.

At least there will the comp pick for next year as well as a few others like samuel, unless we hit FA big. I would have taken the 6th too.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

FA is a tricky thing. I have no problem paying big money for legitimately elite players, but the thing is those type of players typically don't hit FA. In FA you're often overpaying for guys who might be pretty good, but then again you have no idea. For every London Fletcher there is a Jeremiah Trotter. For every Shawn Springs there is a William Jackson. And so on. Its often just as much a crapshoot as the draft except way more expensive.

 

 

 

For example, the Giants paid some dough for Okereke.  We went much cheaper with Barton.  Keim said this regime liked Okereke but wanted to go cheaper. 

 

Plenty of examples like that.  I am not saying go nuts with FA.  But be strategic.  Hassan Reddick was young and upcoming, Eagles paid the dough and he worked out.

 

I don't care about judging all of this in the framework of the clownshow FO moves from Dan's era.  All of the regimes under Dan.

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

17 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Thanks. To confirm the trade only benefit was getting us a late 3rd a year sooner and saving money this year. Seems like Chase has very little value / no demand for him. Whats it cost to move up a year for the same pick - a 5th maybe. 

 

I thought I read comp picks round calcs were dynamic based on demand contract amount etc.

We wouldn’t have gotten a 3rd in 2025 either. Young isn’t going to sign a superstar contract, which is imperative to get the top comp picks. But even if he did, we would need to not offset that spending in FA. We have almost $100M in cap space. Seems impossible we wouldn’t use it.

 

So, no, the only benefit of the trade is not moving up the 3rd from 2025 to 2024—we almost certainly were not getting that. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

Fair statement about Chase maybe, but should we trust these coaches for thier opinion on a player? I put it more on the coaches that they can't make the personalities work than the players. That is thier job. Don't get me wrong, I think trading both Sweat and Young were good moves. But not because the coaches didn't think Young played nice with others. That to me is making excuses for not doing your job. 

 

Will be interesting to see how thery build this team when the new FO and coaching staff comes in. They are loading up on resources which is the right thing to do. 

 

 

 

 

The coaches could end up right, will see.  Based on their leaks, its clear that they think highly of Sweat but don't think highly of Chase. 

[Chris 44]

1 minute ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I think we clearly need 2 starting OTs. Wylie isn't cutting it ... Leno is not good and is a clear cap casualty. MAYBE we bring back Lucas on the cheap and draft a pair of OTs, but I can't see us rolling into 2024 with 2 new rookie OTs. I feel like a high-end RT and a rookie LT is the right way to go. And we should have $100+ million in cap space to play with, which goes really far with long-term contracts ... I'll do the math here in a few to see what we would have in my hypothetical scenario above

Good points, guessing its going to come down to who is available and at what price. Definitely need to add at least 4 pieces to the OL.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

We have been cash poor for quite some time now and I think that has impacted who we can sign in free agency. I think most of us in here have had guys we really wanted to target that we said "wtf" to when they signed for modest deals elsewhere. Meanwhile we're signing Bartons and Wylies and Nick Gates ... hopefully that changes with a new regime and some cash infusion ...

 

@markmills67 per OvertheCap, we now have $10m in cap space in 2023 ... it was $3m yesterday. Idk if they just transferred the contracts off the books, or if they do know that they transition to the new teams. If so, that's not chump change, a net of $7m to carry over into 2024.

 

In my hypothetical where we move on from Leno and Logan Thomas this off-season ... I mean we HAVE to, right? And let's just also assume we roll about $6m over from the $10m we currently have in 2023:

 

2024: $116.1m

2025: $155.3m

2026: $260m

 

And what if this FO comes in, says we have plenty of $$ in 2024 but we have no use for Nick Gates and Andrew Wylie? Well we don't gain any 2024 cap (about $1m with all the dead $$) ... but our 2025 cap space would go up to $173.1m 

[Ball Security]

6 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I think we clearly need 2 starting OTs. Wylie isn't cutting it ... Leno is not good and is a clear cap casualty. MAYBE we bring back Lucas on the cheap and draft a pair of OTs, but I can't see us rolling into 2024 with 2 new rookie OTs. I feel like a high-end RT and a rookie LT is the right way to go. And we should have $100+ million in cap space to play with, which goes really far with long-term contracts ... I'll do the math here in a few to see what we would have in my hypothetical scenario above

Who are these high end tackles that will be available in the offseason? Most of them are long in the tooth or have been battling injuries. Donovan Smith, maybe. Tyron Smith is getting up there in age and has been banged up/not as good as his prime.

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The coaches could end up right, will see.  Based on their leaks, its clear that they think highly of Sweat but don't think highly of Chase. 

 

Of course they could be right. Just not sure I trust anything a set of failing coaches say on thier way out the door. Again, even if what they say is true it's more a poor reflection on them not being able to get he personalities to work together than a problem with the players. Also, did Young come inthat way or did the toxic environment the dan fostered do that to him? 

 

Again, I think trading him was a good for the long term building of the team. Just not buying the coaches bull**** right now. 

[Skinsinparadise]

59 minutes ago, Bifflog said:

 I'd love a link for this if you have it (not questioning in the least, I just find it interesting and wanted to see it.  Might make me feel better :))

 

It was posted about a week ago or so somewhere I believe on this thread.  If I recall who said it, I'd have been more specific.  

 

As for feeling better, the more I listen to the narratives, four things seem crystal clear.

 

A.  this coaching staff wanted to move on from Chase.  Clearly they are kicking him too out the door with all these leaks. 

 

B. The league doesn't see Chase right now the way some fans do.  Standig among others talked about this point speciically.

 

C.  Not much as to offers for Chase.  SF had the best one

 

D.  Among other things, the knee is a serious long term concern in the league

Edited November 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The coaches could end up right, will see.  Based on their leaks, its clear that they think highly of Sweat but don't think highly of Chase. 

Sweats numbers are pretty good this year. But he’s not exactly been taking over games. 
 

Good player - but not someone I’d be paying a top 5 DE contract to. Which is what he will probably get from the Bears, possibly more given Sweat has a TON of leverage now.

[Going Commando]

6 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

Dang dude. I don’t follow the NBA as closely as some, but A quick check of the results tells me the 76ers are far from being a “colossal **** up”. Sorry, he hasn’t won multiple championships there yet, but in my opinion, he is doing things the right way. Doesn’t mean it automatically works. Let’s set that aside for a second… We had Snyder for crying out loud. It can’t get worse, so why not give this guy a chance? Forward thinking roster building and analytics may not be your thing, but a lot of us think it’s the way to go.

 

I understand that not everyone follows the NBA, so I'll explain the context: when you have 10 years of a transcendent 7 footer who is a truly dominant two-way player--Joel Embiid--then it is a colossal failure to never make it past the second round of the playoffs.  Those kinds of players can single-handedly take you to an NBA Finals.  They've been the surest ticket to winning multiple championships in the NBA since the 1950s.  You are guaranteed 50 wins per regular season with them, and you will almost never miss the playoffs or go out in round one in any healthy year for them.  Making the second round of the NBA playoffs is nothing, it's something that even the crap franchises like the Wizards can do--a minimal expectation for a team that is supposed to be a contender.  Now consider that the 76ers haven't just had Joel Embiid since Harris bought them.  They also had two #1 overall picks and another #3 overall pick, a #6 overall pick, as well as three other late lottery picks.  Not a single one of those other picks are still on the team, nor did they bring in anything of notable long term benefit.  They had Jimmie Butler in house and let him walk in order to keep Tobias Harris.  Jimmie Butler went on to lead Miami to two Finals appearances.  They spent their other #3 overall pick on Jahlil Okafor, who had zero chance of thriving alongside Embiid and was an immediate bust.  They spent their two #1s on Markelle Fultz and Ben Simmons, both busts, both also gone.  Simmons was traded to get James Harden, who was also just traded for about 20 cents on the dollar.  Now they're stuck telling themselves that they can still contend with Embiid and Tyrese Maxey until Embiid finally says enough is enough and asks out to spend the few prime years he has left on a real contender.  It's depressing, and the whole Trust the Process era is going to be infamous among NBA fans for a long time.

 

I get hating Snyder and being grateful for any change.  I also get that fans have zero power to influence outcomes for their favorite teams, and that assuming optimism as a default outlook feels better.  I just can't lie to myself about this owner or give him such a big benefit of the doubt.  When I see him make mistakes or do something unacceptable, I'm going to acknowledge it.  I'm not interested in false hope any more, and every year I become less invested in this awful franchise.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

3 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Who are these high end tackles that will be available in the offseason? Most of them are long in the tooth or have been battling injuries. Donovan Smith, maybe. Tyron Smith is getting up there in age and has been banged up/not as good as his prime.

 

I honestly haven't looked. But here's what happened in 2023:

- RT Mike McGlinchey - 5 years $87.5m ($6m cap hit in 2023)

- RT Jawaan Taylor - 4 years $80m ($5.8m cap hit in 2023)

- LT Orlando Brown - 4 years $64m ($10.3m cap hit in 2023)

- RT Kaleb McGary - 3 Years $34m ($5.5m cap hit in 2023)

- OT Andre Dillard - 3 Years $30m ($2.5m cap hit in 2023)

 

And then there was Andrew Wylie, who we signed to a 3 year $24m deal with a $4.1m 2023 cap hit. And I think we see how that has gone.

 

In my mind, I could see us going after a Jawaan Taylor through Kaleb McGary ... go get someone that can step in and upgrade RT immediately, even if you slightly overpay. Once you get Leno, Gates and Wylie off the books, your OL is full on rookie contracts. Go spend on the OL. And then draft on the OL.

 

I would be ALL for signing a good LG (Nate Davis type) ... a good RT (Kaleb McGary type) and then drafting an OT and OG ... 

 

OT: Rookie 1st round LT, Good FA RT signing, Wylie, Rookie mid-Round OT, Daniels

OG: Cosmi, Good FA LG Signing, mid-round IOL, Gates

C: Stromberg, veteran FA signing

Edited November 1, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[MrJL]

We don't actually have to move on from Leno and Thomas, based on their play this year

[NYSkins21]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For example, the Giants paid some dough for Okereke.  We went much cheaper with Barton.  Keim said this regime liked Okereke but wanted to go cheaper. 

 

Plenty of examples like that.  I am not saying go nuts with FA.  But be strategic.  Hassan Reddick was young and upcoming, Eagles paid the dough and he worked out.

 

I don't care about judging all of this in the framework of the clownshow FO moves from Dan's era.  All of the regimes under Dan.

 

 

 

I agree but we have to remember, hands were tied in last FA with ownership uncertainty. That element was definitely a factor and it won’t be this upcoming FA period.

[Ball Security]

Just now, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I honestly haven't looked. But here's what happened in 2023:

- RT Mike McGlinchey - 5 years $87.5m ($6m cap hit in 2023)

- RT Jawaan Taylor - 4 years $80m ($5.8m cap hit in 2023)

- LT Orlando Brown - 4 years $64m ($10.3m cap hit in 2023)

- RT Kaleb McGary - 3 Years $34m ($5.5m cap hit in 2023)

- OT Andre Dillard - 3 Years $30m ($2.5m cap hit in 2023)

 

And then there was Andrew Wylie, who we signed to a 3 year $24m deal with a $4.1m 2023 cap hit. And I think we see how that has gone.

Right. Most of those guys were coming off rookie contracts meaning they are 25-27ish. I don’t see a crop of those going into this offseason.

[skinsfan66]

36 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Can someone clarify for me the comp pick/year we would have gotten for Chase had we held him, vs what we got, a " "conditional" pick from SF? Thanks!

 

 

 

The team would get to use SF's pick this coming off season and to not wait a year to use the comp pick if you kept him it would go on following year offseason. Plus, what if you liked a Top FA ? You would be at risk to lose that comp pick. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by skinsfan66

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, MrJL said:

We don't actually have to move on from Leno and Thomas, based on their play this year

 

Leno will be in the final year of his deal and can save us $14m if we cut him. It's a no-brainer to me, especially if we are able to draft an anchor LT.

 

Only way I could see him staying on is if we draft an LT but plan to start him at RT, and keep Leno around 1 more year to hold down the LT spot before flipping the rookie over in 2024, and moving Wylie to Guard where I think he's better. 

 

Maybe the most likely scenario would be to draft an OT in R1, put them at RT ... slide Wylie to compete at LG with a rookie 2nd or 3rd round Guard pick. Then draft another OT in R4 or R5 to back-up at RT. I get continuity and not just cutting cause they can save money to be wasted elsewhere, but with a new FO and coaching staff coming in, I could see a lot more turnover than normal.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, NYSkins21 said:

I agree but we have to remember, hands were tied in last FA with ownership uncertainty. That element was definitely a factor and it won’t be this upcoming FA period.

 

They had a pot of money to spend and decided to spend it on Wylie and Gates and Barton.  They were wrong.  I'd give them an out if they got even one of those right.  Just like the previous off season when Rivera suggested they had money but spent it on Wentz.

 

If you are working on a budget, cool, but don't bomb with those signings.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Also a wildcard ... RB ... having now sat through the Brian Robinson and Antonio Gibson experiences ... one of the "analytically" best ways to upgrade the offense would probably be to get a stud RB. Given it's a loaded FA cycle, I would not be surprised if we went and got a legit RB to be a feature back in this offense. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Yeah that tweet reminds me Keim thinks the D line should be fine, his cocnern is the secondary and O line.

 

And the "Do Your Job" mantra from Ron was aimed at the D lineman.

 

 

 

[Conn]

54 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Why would you give an owner of this team the benefit of the doubt, especially when he's been such a colossal **** up with the 76ers?  Why would you think he's going to get any of the hires this offseason right when he's never gotten a single one right with them, and he knows even less about football than basketball?  Make no mistake, the 76ers are a huge failure under his ownership.  Their abortive run is over and they will officially go back into the cellar when they finish playing out the string and face the reality that they have to deal Joel Embiid.  The second round being their high water mark is a pathetic, Wizards-esque bar.  That fanbase was told to keep buying tickets because the deal was eventually they'd be competing for championships.  They sold all of the same **** there they are trying to sell here--cutting edge analytics driven management, tanking for the future, churning through coaches and GMs to get to the best possible people.  All they did was end up with mediocrities and snake oil salesmen like Doc Rivers and Daryl Morey and achieved the same outcome as a third rate Mom and Pop franchise in the Wizards, while utterly squandering the largest bounty of high draft picks in NBA history.  All they actually achieved was a new and flashy way to sell their BS.

 

I knew people were going to try and hang yesterday's bag of **** around Ron's neck to avoid placing any accountability for mistakes on the current center of power in the franchise.  It's what the fans and media people covering the team always do.  But it's a lie.  Harris decided to get directly involved and force the FO to trade their players and he will always own this.  Save that **** for someone else gullible enough to believe it.

Take a step back with me for a moment. You seem more angry at an unfolding future with Harris hiring an actual GM to manage things than you ever were about Snyder—even the latter Snyder/Rivera years. I never saw you post like this about the haunting inevitability of failure under Snyder. 
 

You were off-puttingly negative on Harris from day 1 because of your extreme anger towards the way the guys they drafted with the high Process picks didn’t work out in the NBA. Okay.

 

But it almost feels like you hate Harris so much that you set yourself up to be upset at him obviously having to move on from Rivera’s reign of terror, by suddenly becoming the world’s biggest fan of Rivera “stability” this past offseason. So now you’re pissed.

 

Okay. What’s next? If Harris hires a coveted, respectable GM candidate who then leads the process of building the rest of the football side of the org with his chosen HC candidate, are you on board? 
 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Conn

[Dan T.]