The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[goskins10]

4 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I would have liked a higher pick offer, however I think on balance we should have made that trade. Or maybe offer Brissett and our 7th rounder for a 5th back. Or Brissett and a 6th for a 4th back. Something like that. Feels like we could have been creative to net a decent mid round pick. 

Totally disagree. Brissett is more valuable in the lockeroom as continuity for Sam if they decide to keep him,  6th rd draft chocies, while coveted by fans looking for the next Brady are typically just barely better than worthless. 

 

Keep Brisset. Him and Sam get along he has some good experience and has won, albiet only a little but has won in this league. 

[RandyHolt]

I heard on 1067 that our shiny new Eugene who was technically not hired yet, had input on our trades.  Probably told Harris in the interview what he'd do.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

This is fascinating:

 

 

This seems most geared toward in-game management and draft strategy ... but I think it's really telling. Maybe a higher draft pick on a RB versus free agent acquisition? Trade down from a high pick? Focus on pass-blocking versus run-blocking, perhaps. And drafting a TE.

Edited November 2, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Est.1974]

Just now, goskins10 said:

Totally disagree. Brissett is more valuable in the lockeroom as continuity for Sam if they decide to keep him,  6th rd draft chocies, while coveted by fans looking for the next Brady are typically just barely better than worthless. 

 

Keep Brisset. Him and Sam get along he has some good experience and has won, albiet only a little but has won in this league. 

I personally think that ‘lockerroom continuity’ line is largely irrelevant at this stage. They’ve likely had 6 months together now and he’ll be gone in January. But yeah, I’m not that heated about it. Just feels more like a ‘safe, keep a decent back-up’ option for Rivera incase Howell goes out. 

[Chris 44]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah Hoffman was referencing in his press conference when Rivera was asked about the DEs he still pivoted to Howell.  As he said howell is like Rivera's human shield.

 

Finlay is now running a segment on the point about Rivera's pitch is all about Howell to an extreme

I will always root for this team and will against New England, but part of me is like for every win it might somehow validate this staff and then have to listen to Ron talk about how close they are.

Ron seemed luke warm on Howell up until a week or so ago and now he seems all in. Its as if Harris said "Hey Ron that Sam Howell kid looking pretty good, we may have our quarterback" and Ron says oh yes sir I knew it all along. Probably not but thats the impression Im getting.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Chris 44

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I listened to some national talk on this.  Keim if I recall, too.  the thought is the Bears if they must would franchise Sweat.

That’s always an option, but we know all too well about the pitfalls of holding a guy hostage for $20M.

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

This is fascinating:

 

 

This seems most geared toward in-game management and draft strategy ... but I think it's really telling. Maybe a higher draft pick on a RB versus free agent acquisition? Trade down from a high pick? Focus on pass-blocking versus run-blocking, perhaps. And drafting a TE.

"Two lower picks is better than one high pick"

 

Wonder if we can trade back our out of the first for a day two pick and a first next year.

[Rex Tomb]

5 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

shiny new Eugene

I don’t know why, but this line absolutely had me laughing.

[FootballZombie]

**This is coming from a guy who says RBs are near worthless in consideration to winning and I am not interested in paying them any kind of money**

 

How are RBs overrated in FA? Hasn't the NFL demonstrated clearly that their services will not be paid a a rate considerable to other positions? Whats a lower rating than that?

 

[woodpecker]

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That’s always an option, but we know all too well about the pitfalls of holding a guy hostage for $20M.

Yep. But it’s the Bears problem now. Sure is nice to be the one who got over on the other team in a trade for once instead of the other way around!

[Rex Tomb]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That’s always an option, but we know all too well about the pitfalls of holding a guy hostage for $20M.

What do you mean??

 

[gooseneck]

Some thoughts on free agents next year:

40. Ronald Darby, CB, Baltimore Ravens-give us time to see if Forbes develops

Cornerback Ronald Darby didn't land with the Baltimore Ravens until August, but he may have found the perfect place to improve his 2024 stock. The Ravens appear to have a Super Bowl-caliber defense, and Darby is a significant contributor.

Though Darby has bounced between five teams in his nine seasons, he's been a fairly dependable starter in every stop. Last year with the Denver Broncos, he held opposing quarterbacks to a 69.9 passer rating in coverage.

25. Jordyn Brooks, LB, Seattle Seahawks
Jordyn Brooks of the Seattle Seahawks has grown into one of the league's most prolific off-ball linebackers. The 26-year-old topped 160 tackles in each of the past two seasons and led the league with 109 solo stops in 2021.

While Brooks suffered a torn ACL in Week 17 last season, he was back on the field for Week 1 this year, which he finished with 12 tackles, a tackle for loss and five solo stops. He has already amassed 67 tackles, 35 solo stops, 3.5 sacks and a forced fumble this season.

"It's amazing," fellow linebacker Bobby Wagner said, per John Boyle of the team's official website. "I hope we don't just pass on it like this is not a big deal."

Brooks worked hard for a speedy recovery. Expect him to cash in with a sizeable second contract. Logical suitors include the Commanders, who are projected to have the second-most cap space in the NFL and who could use help at the second level of their defense.

Though the Pittsburgh Steelers are currently projected to be over next year's cap, they should take a long look at a run-stopping linebacker like Brooks. While Pittsburgh's defense has been mostly solid this season, the Steelers have allowed an average of 4.5 yards per carry.

Potential Suitors: Pittsburgh Steelers, Washington Commanders

23. Mike Onwenu, OL, New England Patriots
While the 2024 crop of pure offensive tackles isn't overly impressive, New England's Mike Onwenu may provide an intriguing option.

Onwenu spent most of last season starting on the interior for the Patriots. He had a strong campaign and was responsible for only two penalties and one sack allowed, according to Pro Football Focus.

However, Onwenu has experience playing both tackle positions, and New England recently moved him over to right tackle with positive results. His versatility and dependability are tremendously attractive traits.

"Mike played [right tackle] his rookie year. He's a smart kid—understands probably all the different positions on the offensive line," Patriots head coach Bill Belichick said, per Christopher Price of the Boston Globe. "Pretty good fundamental player, and obviously has got good strength."

Set to turn just 26 in December, Onwenu is likely to command a significant long-term deal.

The Raiders, who are still searching for the right offensive line combination, could target Onwenu as either a guard or a tackle. The Cincinnati Bengals will also be in the right tackle market if Jonah Williams departs in free agency.

22. Patrick Queen, LB, Baltimore Ravens
In May, the Baltimore Ravens declined linebacker Patrick Queen's fifth-year option. The 24-year-old has responded with a hot start to what could be a career year.

Through eight games, Queen has tallied 69 tackles, six tackles for loss, 3.5 sacks, six quarterback pressures and three passes defended. He finished the 2022 season with 117 tackles, five sacks and two interceptions.

The Ravens did discuss an extension with Queen last offseason, though the two sides reportedly never came close to an agreement.

"There were talks and then some stuff fell through," Queen said, per The Athletic's Jeff Zrebiec. "Obviously, you get upset. I'm probably going to be gone. That's, at least, what I was thinking in my head. I'm thinking that I'm gone."

If Baltimore cannot retain Queen, teams like the Commanders and Steelers should be interested in adding him.

The Giants should also have heavy interest. Queen played his first two seasons under current New York defensive coordinator Don Martindale, and New York has struggled against the run this season, allowing an average of 4.8 yards per carry.

The Browns could also make a play for Queen if they can carve out enough cap space for him. Luring Queen away from a division rival would benefit Cleveland, and the Browns could lose linebackers Anthony Walker Jr. and Sione Takitaki in 2024 free agency.

Potential Suitors: Cleveland Browns, New York Giants

19. Connor Williams IOL, Miami Dolphins
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MIAMI GARDENS, FLORIDA - OCTOBER 8: Connor Williams #58 of the Miami Dolphins runs out of the tunnel during player introductions prior to a game against the New York Giants at Hard Rock Stadium on October 8, 2023 in Miami Gardens, Florida. (Photo by Brandon Sloter/Image Of Sport/Getty Images)
Brandon Sloter/Image Of Sport/Getty Images
Connor Williams, a 2018 second-round pick of the Dallas Cowboys, has developed into one of the better young interior linemen in the NFL. Though he never achieved Pro Bowl status during his four years in Dallas, he started 51 games and provided dependable play, primarily at left guard.

Penalties were an issue for Williams in Dallas, but he still cracked the top 50 on our 2022 free-agent big board.

Since arriving in Miami, Williams has been moved to center and has been more steady. After allowing three sacks last year, he has yet to allow one this season, according to Pro Football Focus.

While Williams is currently battling a groin injury, he lands inside our top 20 for his combination of experience, positional versatility and youth, as he won't turn 27 until May.

Williams should be a target for contending teams and rebuilding franchises alike. However, the Panthers and Commanders should both be heavily interested.

Washington has allowed a league-high 41 sacks this season and can use line help virtually anywhere they can get it. The Panthers have allowed 25 sacks and desperately need to put a better blocking unit in front of 2023 first overall pick Bryce Young.

Potential Suitors: Carolina Panthers, Washington Commanders

The Bengals might also consider pairing Barkley with their star quarterback, Joe Burrow.

While Cincinnati running back Joe Mixon is signed through the 2024 season, he isn't the explosive runner he was earlier in his career. The Bengals could also save $5.8 million in cap space by releasing Mixon in the spring.

Potential Suitors: Cincinnati Bengals, Houston Texans

17. Jonah Williams, OT, Cincinnati Bengals
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GLENDALE, AZ - OCTOBER 08: Jonah Williams #73 of the Cincinnati Bengals warms up prior to an NFL game against the Arizona Cardinals at State Farm Stadium on October 8, 2023 in Glendale, Arizona. (Photo by Cooper Neill/Getty Images)
Cooper Neill/Getty Images
As a left tackle, Jonah Williams was a veritable disaster for the Bengals. Last season, he got called for four penalties and allowed 12 sacks, according to Pro Football Focus.

Williams' inconsistency led Cincinnati to sign Orlando Brown Jr. in free agency, which eventually resulted in Williams shifting to right tackle. Since making the position switch, the 25-year-old has looked like a different player.

On the right side, Williams' strength as a run blocker has flashed more frequently, and he hasn't been as much of a liability in the passing game. Per PFF, Williams has allowed only three sacks and has yet to be called for a penalty this season.

The Commanders could eye Williams as a replacement for Andrew Wylie, who has been responsible for four penalties and five sacks this season, per PFF, although Wylie is under contract through 2025.

The Raiders may also give some consideration to Williams as they seek a permanent answer at right tackle. Las Vegas has tried Jermaine Eluemunor and 2022 seventh-round pick Thayer Munford Jr. at the position with mixed results.

If Williams continues the level of play he's shown through the first eight weeks, he could be the bookend to Kolton Miller that Las Vegas has been seeking.

Potential Suitors: Las Vegas Raiders, Washington Commanders

9. Devin White, LB, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
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ORCHARD PARK, NY - OCTOBER 26: Devin White #45 of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers runs onto the field prior to an NFL football game against the Buffalo Bills at Highmark Stadium on October 26, 2023 in Orchard Park, New York. (Photo by Cooper Neill/Getty Images)
Cooper Neill/Getty Images
Since being taken fifth overall in the 2019 draft, Tampa's Devin White has established himself as arguably the best young off-ball linebacker in the NFL. He won't turn 26 until February, and he already has one Pro Bowl nod, one Super Bowl ring, 530 tackles, 20.5 sacks, 17 passes defended and 36 tackles for loss on his resume.

This season, White has done a little bit of everything for the Buccaneers, including allowing an opposing passer rating of only 66.7 in coverage.

White is one of the few true sideline-to-sideline defenders in the league, and there isn't a role that he cannot fill. When making contract projections, the five-year, $100 million deal that Roquan Smith recently signed with Baltimore is a likely starting point.

The Bears, who traded Smith to the Ravens last year, could be interested in bringing another elite linebacker into the fold. They might be seeking a new quarterback in 2024, but they also need to improve their 23rd-ranked defense.

The Texans could also be in pursuit of White in a few months. Head coach DeMeco Ryans knows the importance of having a top-tier linebacker after coaching Fred Warner in San Francisco. Houston should be aggressive in building around players like C.J. Stroud and Will Anderson Jr. in the offseason.

Potential Suitors: Chicago Bears, Houston Texans

4. Danielle Hunter, Edge, Minnesota Vikings
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MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA - OCTOBER 23: Danielle Hunter #99 of the Minnesota Vikings looks on against the San Francisco 49ers in the first half at U.S. Bank Stadium on October 23, 2023 in Minneapolis, Minnesota. The Vikings defeated the 49ers 22-17. (Photo by David Berding/Getty Images)
David Berding/Getty Images
If we were ranking players purely on statistical production, Danielle Hunter would be the top free-agent pass-rusher with little question. The Vikings star has three Pro Bowls and five double-digit-sack seasons on his resume, and he may be in the midst of a career year.

However, Hunter has benefited greatly from hitting home at a remarkably high rate. He currently leads the NFL with nine sacks, but he's tied for 33rd with nine quarterback hits. It's important to remember that sacks aren't the only way that pass-rushers can disrupt the offensive game plan.

This isn't to suggest that Hunter isn't a terrific player, because he is. However, there's a reasonable chance that his sack numbers are more in line with other top free-agent pass-rushers by season's end.

The other factor to consider here is that Hunter recently turned 29. He's still young enough to warrant a multi-year deal, but some teams may be hesitant to offer him a four- or five-year contract.

Expect playoff hopefuls with a solid amount of cap space, like the Detroit Lions and Indianapolis Colts, to have the best chance of landing Hunter.

Potential Suitors: Detroit Lions, Indianapolis Colts
 

[KDawg]

Onwenu is intriguing. I'd have to watch him a bit more to see how intriguing.

 

Jordyn Brooks, too. 

 

But for all free agents it really depends on who is hired.

[Ball Security]

20 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

**This is coming from a guy who says RBs are near worthless in consideration to winning and I am not interested in paying them any kind of money**

 

How are RBs overrated in FA? Hasn't the NFL demonstrated clearly that their services will not be paid a a rate considerable to other positions? Whats a lower rating than that?

 

I don’t think he’s comparing to other positions. I think he’s comparing to the RB position. It’s better to have Bijan Robinson at $4M cap than Aaron Jones at $8M or James Conner at $9M.

[Warhead36]

34 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

This is fascinating:

 

 

This seems most geared toward in-game management and draft strategy ... but I think it's really telling. Maybe a higher draft pick on a RB versus free agent acquisition? Trade down from a high pick? Focus on pass-blocking versus run-blocking, perhaps. And drafting a TE.

Yep pretty much agree with him on all that, except MAYBE the RB part, but now that I think about it it kinda makes sense. If you can get a stud RB in the 1st round that's 5 years of potential elite production on a cheap contract.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Ball Security said:

I don’t think he’s comparing to other positions. I think he’s comparing to the RB position. It’s better to have Bijan Robinson at $4M cap than Aaron Jones at $8M or James Conner at $9M.

It’s better to have none of those guys and just not use a 1st round pick on a RB.

 

I’m willing to wager that Shen is considering a “high pick” on a RB to be 2nd or 3rd round and I’m on board with that, those are often cheap studs with less acquisition cost 

[Ball Security]

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

It’s better to have none of those guys and just not use a 1st round pick on a RB.

 

I’m willing to wager that Shen is considering a “high pick” on a RB to be 2nd or 3rd round and I’m on board with that, those are often cheap studs with less acquisition cost 

I used Robinson as the example to show the difference between a first rounder and FA RBs that came to mind.

 

I’m not against using a first on a RB if everything lines up correctly. (the roster is in a good place, more than one first, etc). I don’t think the Lions are regretting the Gibbs pick. The expectation though is you’d only have them for five to seven seasons while other positions have a much better chance of lasting longer.

 

But, yeah, I could definitely see him viewing it as a day two pick where the compensation difference is greater than my example though you control them for one less year.

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Ball Security said:

I don’t think he’s comparing to other positions. I think he’s comparing to the RB position. It’s better to have Bijan Robinson at $4M cap than Aaron Jones at $8M or James Conner at $9M.

 

 

That is true for every position tho.

I'd much rather have the really good dirt cheap rookie than the really good expensive vet.

 

Changing the position to WR, would I want Justin Jefferson at 4 Mil or Diggs 14M/Cooper Kupp 17M?

 

 

If he was only talking about the RB position than that is less profound determination from data and more baby's first analytic take.
 

[skinsfan66]

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

This is fascinating:

 

 

This seems most geared toward in-game management and draft strategy ... but I think it's really telling. Maybe a higher draft pick on a RB versus free agent acquisition? Trade down from a high pick? Focus on pass-blocking versus run-blocking, perhaps. And drafting a TE.

 I feel the same about TE and have always listed it as a need position right next to OL. Shen was in Baltimore several years, they seem to be always loaded at TE. 

[CapsSkins]

What are the chances we can sign Devin White to a big deal in FA?

 

He requested a trade last offseason because Tampa wouldn't give him a big extension and wanted him to play out his 5th year option. Doesn't seem like they're necessarily going to bring him back... any reason we shouldn't give a premiere LB a second contract? I'm sick of watching offenses feast on our LBs.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

4 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

What are the chances we can sign Devin White to a big deal in FA?

 

He requested a trade last offseason because Tampa wouldn't give him a big extension and wanted him to play out his 5th year option. Doesn't seem like they're necessarily going to bring him back... any reason we shouldn't give a premiere LB a second contract? I'm sick of watching offenses feast on our LBs.

 

We have to spend our money somewhere, and since we'll likely be spending down on DE (either rookie contracts or cheaper stopgaps) I think it would make sense to add a premier piece to the defense in FA. Devin White, Patrick Queen ... either one would make sense.

 

Likely depends on how many premier plays hit FA. I would think we have the money to sign 1-2 very comfortably. Will be interesting to see how aggressive we get in FA, or if the new FO thinks we build through the draft and keep our cap space to roll over into 2025 / 2026. 

[Redskins 2021]

   It's hard to have any idea what they are thinking until the hire a GM and new coach. 

 

 Without knowing any of that I think they will look at OT and DE early in this year's draft. 

 

As for FA I think Queen and White are possibly?

Edited November 2, 2023 by Redskins 2021

[goskins10]

3 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

I personally think that ‘lockerroom continuity’ line is largely irrelevant at this stage. They’ve likely had 6 months together now and he’ll be gone in January. But yeah, I’m not that heated about it. Just feels more like a ‘safe, keep a decent back-up’ option for Rivera incase Howell goes out. 

 

Fair enough in that I forgot he was only under contract for 1 yr. So yea, may have pulled the trigger. But I see them keeping him. 6th is still not worth much. 

[NoCalMike]

The way I see it, the moves currently being made, coupled with Chen's metrics for how to win in the NFL, tells me there is a belief by those currently in the building (I assume front office & coaches) that Howell is good enough to go the Eagles-Jalen Hurts route which is to get into position to overhaul the offense around Sam, while making upgrades to the defense where necessary.  I don't know the kind of QB Sam Howell develops into a couple seasons from now, but what we are seeing early seems to be a big belief in his skills.

 

Before these trades I was a worried about Curl escaping through free agency but I think now,  much like they paid the middle of the D-line for performance, Curl is going to get extended with a nice contract or at least a lot of effort is going to be put into doing it and he only will leave if some kind of blockbuster offer is made (or if he never intended to stay in the first place).

[Skinsinparadise]

Breer who is friendly with Ron

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/11/02/michigan-jim-harbaugh-coach-raiders-josh-mcdaniels-mark-davis-mailbag

 

From Omar (@TAOShinaishin): Does the Commanders’ trade deadline seal Ron Rivera’s fate?

Omar, no, it doesn’t. But make no mistake about this: Washington trading its defensive ends, Chase Young and Montez Sweat, has new owner Josh Harris’s fingerprints on it. And this starts with the two players in question. Both are enormous talents, and each was, well, less than perfect during their time in Washington.

With Young, there was the feeling he’d played selfishly at times, protecting himself in some spots, and too aggressively seeking big plays in others. And while his knee is healthy now, and he’s regained most of his explosiveness, there was concern his catastrophic injury of 2021 would create lingering issues. With Sweat, there were some consistency issues, though most folks in the building regarded him as a good-hearted guy.

The biggest thing with each was how they would fit into longer-term planning. With the hope that the Commanders had found their quarterback in Sam Howell, the idea was to build up the middle—such as Rivera did in Carolina—and invest more around Howell moving forward. And with so much already invested in Daron Payne and Jonathan Allen, it was going to be tough to throw, say, $25 million a year at either of the defensive ends. So when the calls started coming leading up to the deadline, Commanders’ brass resolved to listen.

Anyway, that led into Tuesday, with Harris’s expectation that at least one of the two would be moved, and that both could be, if a great case wasn’t made for keeping one. Now, the Commanders have two top-100 (or so) picks coming back for them. Whether Rivera, GM Martin Mayhew and EVP player personnel Marty Hurney are making those picks is anyone’s guess, and it certainly won’t be easy for those guys to make their case for staying without two blue-chip talents being taken out of a loaded defensive line room.

But there is a flip side, and it’s that if Rivera and his staff can keep the Commanders in the race, and make the playoffs without those two, it does say something about their ability to coach and lead and win in the long term. That’s presuming, of course, that Harris hasn’t already made up his mind.

---

 

From Adam Wells (@DCHamSandwich): Was Washington close to trading anyone else? Kendall Fuller, Antonio Gibson or maybe Jacoby Brissett?

Adam, they had talks with plenty of people about their roster. And the defensive ends, who’d really drawn interest for the past two weeks, were the two that they were willing to part with and had significant value on the market.

They did discuss moving Brissett with other teams, but they wanted a pick in the Day 2 range, which was way too much as those other teams saw it. And as we said earlier, the logic in dealing the defensive ends was to clear out room to build around Howell. And there was less reason to wash out the other positions. So, simple as this sounds, the best move to both build for 2024 and beyond, and maintain some semblance of the core they’ve built, was to do what they did.