The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Mr. Sinister]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I can think of five guys in the last five years alone who were much worse.

 

I can't 

[Daniel.redskins]

1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Between his bad throws, bad pocket mechanics... ****, bad EVERYTHING, that might be the worst QB play I've ever seen here, and after the first two weeks, and everything I've seen since the year of our lord 1999, that's saying a HELL of a lot.

 

Nowhere to go but up... Unless he gets sacked to death.

You must be one of those Hienicke fanboys I hear about?  Haskins had awful games, especially his last game here that got him benched.  Do you remember Wentz against Cleveland last year?  Hienicke at Buffalo a couple years back was a disaster.  If Alex Smith threw more than 5 yard screens he would be up there.  Cousins had a 4 pick Monday night game against the Giants if I remember correctly.  

[Mr. Sinister]

4 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

You must be one of those Hienicke fanboys I hear about?  Haskins had awful games, especially his last game here that got him benched.  Do you remember Wentz against Cleveland last year?  Hienicke at Buffalo a couple years back was a disaster.  If Alex Smith threw more than 5 yard screens he would be up there.  Cousins had a 4 pick Monday night game against the Giants if I remember correctly.  

 

Okay

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Just now, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Okay

I miss this. 😆

[skins island connection]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

What pocket? I sort of jest, but seriously...he was pressured on something like 80% of his dropbacks. That's insane.

 

I don't think he has a poor pocket presence...we've actually seen him feel pressure, maneuver, and shift in the pocket plenty of times (the TD to Terry last week comes to mind). I think it's more that 1) he still holds the ball too long to try and make plays and 2) teams are getting a ridiculous amount of pressure on us, usually just rushing 4, which means it's easier tor the LBs and DBs to cover.

 

Don't get me wrong...Howell played like ass today. He made plenty of awful decisions, several of which led to his turnovers. But I also know that most people with a functioning prefrontal cortex realized that it was probably just a matter of time before he had a horrid game, considering how green he still is and how god awful his OL is.

 

And yeah, he definitely has a gunslinger aspect to him. He's always trying to make big plays. He'll probably be able to temper that a bit, but I think that will always be a part of him to a certain extent. Just need to know when to put it in check.

 There are times where he does seem to feel the pressure and will slip out of the pocket, but there's alot more times where he just seems to freeze while looking downfield, and the pocket { if you wanna call it that } breaks down and its 2-4 d-linemen on him.  Now the pass to Terry was a beauty, but against a halfway competent defense that ball is picked off, and as I said before, that was into triple coverage . 

I get it; its Howell's 4th NFL game, but this line will get him hurt if RR doesn't fix it and he doesn't do a better job of recognizing pressure, but there have been teams with crappy o-lines who have succeeded before so its up to EB to help him out. Maybe because the Bills have previous experience with EB is the reason it seemed they knew what was coming at times.

[Mr. Sinister]

6 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I miss this. 😆

 

Sometimes the best offense is a good special ed teams

[zCommander]

From NFL.com

 

Day to forget for Sam Howell. The second-year quarterback experienced his first nightmare performance. Howell's head was spinning all game. Behind an overmatched offensive line, the young QB never looked settled, tossing for 170 yards, the four picks and a host of wayward throws. The bottom fell out in the second half as Howell made a bad read in the red zone and was picked off on the opening drive of the third quarter. Washington generated only one first down on its next four drives while turning it over twice. After opening his career with three wins, Howell must prove he can bounce back from a dismal day.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Jets should really trade for Brissett this week.

[NoCalMike]

People have short memories:  NFC QBs currently during their development

 

Dak as a rookie, they ran Zeke into the ground behind the O-line to protect the QB and put him in favorable situations as much as possible.

 

Hurts won 4 games as a rookie, has a 3 INT game in a December game in his 2nd season, then they went out and built one of, if not the best O-line for his third year.

 

Daniel Jones after on okay rookie season regressed continually until 2022 when the coaches took the ball out of his hands as much as possible, focused on the run game, and had him running a lot of RPO.

 

So are we really acting like Howell in his first season as a starter is not going to have terrible games?  My question is what is EB going to adjust about this offense to get Howell more favorable situations  How about running the ball more than 5-6 times in the first half when the run game is absolutely working against every single opponent thus far?'

 

Did everyone miss the Eagles game last week when Hurts and the Eagles passing game was struggling so they handed the ball off to Swift until the defense could stop it and the defense was never able to?  Rocket Science, I know.

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

People have short memories:  NFC QBs currently during their development

 

Dak as a rookie, they ran Zeke into the ground behind the O-line to protect the QB and put him in favorable situations as much as possible.

 

Hurts won 4 games as a rookie, has a 3 INT game in a December game in his 2nd season, then they went out and built one of, if not the best O-line for his third year.

 

Daniel Jones after on okay rookie season regressed continually until 2022 when the coaches took the ball out of his hands as much as possible, focused on the run game, and had him running a lot of RPO.

 

So are we really acting like Howell in his first season as a starter is not going to have terrible games?  My question is what is EB going to adjust about this offense to get Howell more favorable situations  How about running the ball more than 5-6 times in the first half when the run game is absolutely working against every single opponent thus far?'

 

Did everyone miss the Eagles game last week when Hurts and the Eagles passing game was struggling so they handed the ball off to Swift until the defense could stop it and the defense was never able to?  Rocket Science, I know.

Im not worried about Howell. I think he can be a good QB but he needs more help on the OL and then he just needs reps to get better.

 

Im just afraid the OL wont even allow that much.

[Llevron]

It’s hard to argue this wasn’t a terrible game from him. We should have expected this at some point. 
 

If anything question Ron and EB, not the kid. He is still honestly ahead of expectations. He had a bad game. They all do. 

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Im not worried about Howell. I think he can be a good QB but he needs more help on the OL and then he just needs reps to get better.

 

Im just afraid the OL wont even allow that much.

Yea I want to give EB the excuse that he knows the Oline can’t run block well either….but it has been working so far so?? 
 

I dunno man

[NoCalMike]

8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Im not worried about Howell. I think he can be a good QB but he needs more help on the OL and then he just needs reps to get better.

 

Im just afraid the OL wont even allow that much.

 

I think across the board we are all frustrated that the O-line wasn't upgraded this past offseason. As soon as they knew Howell would be the starter, it should have been a priority to construct a wall of protection in front of them.

With that said, now that the season has started, the likelihood of the O-line being upgraded by anyone not already on the roster is slim to none, so I am looking in EB's direction regarding what actually CAN be improved and/or adjusted in-season, and for me the obvious answer is the run/pass balance because when we run the ball, we are running it well and it is having a positive effect on the passing game, but as soon as we go away from that formula and try to get cute, everything changes partially due to the Oline, partially due to Same, but I still point in EB's direction for not seeing this and making adjustments.

[RandyHolt]

GM101 class told me you build an OL and then get your QB.  RR has neglected the OL so badly that maybe Ron was sandbagging to get fired. Or never thought Sam would be competitive so why bother? It's like a priority to him was to keep JDR happy by letting him make picks on draft day.  The OL is horrible and EB needs to stop listening to Ron telling him the OL is not a dumpster fire. EB needs to go run heavy quick pass rollouts and boots... anything to try to deRamseyfy what is happening to Sam.

Edited September 25, 2023 by RandyHolt

[mhd24]

1 minute ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I think across the board we are all frustrated that the O-line wasn't upgraded this past offseason. As soon as they knew Howell would be the starter, it should have been a priority to construct a wall of protection in front of them.

With that said, now that the season has started, the likelihood of the O-line being upgraded by anyone not already on the roster is slim to none, so I am looking in EB's direction regarding what actually CAN be improved and/or adjusted in-season, and for me the obvious answer is the run/pass balance because when we run the ball, we are running it well and it is having a positive effect on the passing game, but as soon as we go away from that formula and try to get cute, everything changes partially due to the Oline, partially due to Same, but I still point in EB's direction for not seeing this and making adjustments.

 

Looking at this past FA and what the new players have looked at, the FO seems pretty prudent on not overspending on any of those FA OL.  They all look like crap on their new teams.  Taylor has already been benched.  We saw how bad Mcglinchey is last week.  Powers wasn't that hot either.  Donovan Smith looked pretty bad on opening night.  There wasn't an OL draft able where we were at 16.  Broderick Jones cannot even get a snap in Pittsburgh right now.  Not taking OL in the 2nd is fair argument to make obviously. However, I'm not sure what the FO could have done any different in a broader sense.  If they had signed those high-priced FAs, it would have been a disaster.

[method man]

I don’t necessarily blame Ron for not addressing OT this specific offseason as much as I blame him for failing up to make up with Trent, releasing Moses for no reason, passing up Darrisaw for Jamin, taking Mathis instead of taking an Abraham Lucas, etc

[skins island connection]

2 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

People have short memories:  NFC QBs currently during their development

 

Dak as a rookie, they ran Zeke into the ground behind the O-line to protect the QB and put him in favorable situations as much as possible.

 

Hurts won 4 games as a rookie, has a 3 INT game in a December game in his 2nd season, then they went out and built one of, if not the best O-line for his third year.

 

Daniel Jones after on okay rookie season regressed continually until 2022 when the coaches took the ball out of his hands as much as possible, focused on the run game, and had him running a lot of RPO.

 

So are we really acting like Howell in his first season as a starter is not going to have terrible games?  My question is what is EB going to adjust about this offense to get Howell more favorable situations  How about running the ball more than 5-6 times in the first half when the run game is absolutely working against every single opponent thus far?'

 

Did everyone miss the Eagles game last week when Hurts and the Eagles passing game was struggling so they handed the ball off to Swift until the defense could stop it and the defense was never able to?  Rocket Science, I know.

 There's one thing this fanbase doesn't have, and thats patience with a QB. As soon as a QB starts having a bad streak the pitchforks and torches come out, demanding a trade or cut; back in the 80's there was this thing called a "Sophomore Slump", where a prized QB out of the draft would look good his first season but tail off the next, but for the most part teams stuck with said QB and things worked out. That doesn't happen here. 

 

I actually would feel better IF Howell had happy feet in the pocket so at least he'd scramble out quicker. He HAS to know by now that the line can't protect him, so either EB starts calling for quick slants and more screens or he starts living in shotgun mode, because he won't make it through this season.

[Warhead36]

Yeah I wanna see Howell just take off and run more. He actually is a legit mobile threat. That run he had that set up 1st and goal(the one where we went for it on 4th down down 10-0)was awesome. But sometimes he takes too long to run and by then its too late because the D has caught up/repositioned/restabilized to bring him down.

 

If there is one issue I have with EB is he's not using Howell's legs more in the offense. More RPO, rollouts, designed draws etc. Yeah you don't want him to get hurt, but to hell with it he's getting crushed in the pocket every other play anyway at least when he runs he can get out of bounds or something.

[FootballZombie]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I wanna see Howell just take off and run more. He actually is a legit mobile threat. That run he had that set up 1st and goal(the one where we went for it on 4th down down 10-0)was awesome. But sometimes he takes too long to run and by then its too late because the D has caught up/repositioned/restabilized to bring him down.

 

If there is one issue I have with EB is he's not using Howell's legs more in the offense. More RPO, rollouts, designed draws etc. Yeah you don't want him to get hurt, but to hell with it he's getting crushed in the pocket every other play anyway at least when he runs he can get out of bounds or something.

 

Until Howell shows a consistent effort to protect himself, his legs can't be a major part of the offense. That includes both off schedule runs and RPOs.

 

He nearly got his head taken off on the long run today and as a play caller, I can't knowingly run him if I see him constantly steering himself into car crashes.

I give EB a metric ton of flak for doing precious little in the way of protecting Howell, honestly he is hanging him out to dry, but the one thing he has done well is minimize his running usage and that is to the benefit of a guy who does not understand how to protect himself. 

 

Howells legs are certainly good enough to be a weapon, but they are a total double edged sword as well. You can not take the kind of hits out of the pocket the way Sam is, the impacts out there are even greater due to multiple masses moving at high speed.

 

Sam is getting hit in the pocket. He is getting megaton exploded out of it.

Edited September 25, 2023 by FootballZombie

[KDawg]

People keep saying “I want to see Howell run more”. He tried yesterday. He got to the top of his drop, read the field and bailed… but still got sacked. More than once… because the DL was in his lap. 
 

I’d like to see a wide shot of the receivers to understand if he’s missing guys or if there just wasn’t anyone open. But this OL is brutally bad. 
 

There are absolutely things Howell can do to decrease that number of sacks he’s taking. There are also things EB can do and the receivers can do. So that number can certainly come down… but the amount of free rushers that run through unblocked is wild. 
 

That’s an OL/protection issue that needs to be fixed. QBs will develop “bail syndrome” from a clean pocket when they think they are going to get hit… fix the protection gaffes first and foremost. Routes/reads next. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

25 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I’d like to see a wide shot of the receivers to understand if he’s missing guys or if there just wasn’t anyone open. But this OL is brutally bad. 

Same.

 

From the broadcast angles, I wasn’t seeing anyone open.  I’m seeing a guy getting to the top of his drop with guys still in their breaks and a DL in his lap.

 

I’m sure there will be screenshots showing he’s missed some things but even those can be misleading.

Edited September 25, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[KDawg]

38 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Same.

 

From the broadcast angles, I wasn’t seeing anyone open.  I’m seeing a guy getting to the top of his drop with guys still in their breaks and a DL in his lap.

 

I’m sure there will be screenshots showing he’s missed some things but even those can be misleading.

Even if you put 50% on Howell (which I don’t believe to be true), the offensive line is still egregiously bad.

 

This comes back to roster building. If you have an essential rookie QB who has a history of waiting too long to try to make something happen, then you’d need to protect him. 
 

I agree with you on the broadcast view. I saw receivers still stemming and Howell at the top of his drop and the DL to him already… but the wider shot can show us a lot more.

[Renegade7]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

People keep saying “I want to see Howell run more”. He tried yesterday. He got to the top of his drop, read the field and bailed… but still got sacked. More than once… because the DL was in his lap.

 

 

Couldn't agree more...run where???

 

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I’d like to see a wide shot of the receivers to understand if he’s missing guys or if there just wasn’t anyone open. But this OL is brutally bad.

 

 

I can speak to my opinion of the Arizona game, because I was in the standing section in 400s of one the end zone for this very reason.

 

My opinion is no one respects our TEs, so they focus their resources on our WRs and live with whatever the TEs do because our WRs are that much more dangerous.

 

From what I can tell, Bieniemy isn't forcing the ball to TEs because he had Kelce, nah, defenses are trying to take away our strengths and living with whatever damage our weakness try to do.

 

Having said that, Howell seems to be at his best when he's firing quick shots to the wideouts...an adjustment I'd recommend is change the play calling to help get at least one WR to act as an outlet pass instead of TE or RB. 

 

There is some truth the WRs doing too many long developing routes, and it doesn't matter if one of them can get open if he's getting pressured that often.  His decision making changed in the Arizona game as he kept getting hit, folks next to me noticed it as well.  He did get cheap shots in that game, but overall he's jus getting hit too much, his fault or not, the damage is adding up in how he's reading the field as the game goes on.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Renegade7

[kingdaddy]

If Sam is gonna grow its gonna take a total team commitment on both sides of the ball. Everyone will need to help him.

- EB is gonna need to focus more on running the ball and screen passes while keeping Sam away from obvious passing downs as best he can. Why did we throw the ball on 1st and goal after Howells brilliant run? He was battered and winded and needed a play to gather himself from what I could see.

- We need another back who can scoot. Watching around the league its clear wedont have a "Scat back" who will potentially break a big play. Our backs are not breakaway backs even though BRob is a stud. I'd seriously think about scouring practice squads for a quicker, more reliable 3rd down back.

- Question: does anyone else wonder if Sam is having trouble seeing downfield because of his lack of height? Is this why he holds the ball? 

- I still remain unimpressed with EB's offensive creativity...the 4th qtr seemed like coaching malpractice yesterday the way they kept asking Sam to pass. The Bills must've been laughing and shaking their heads by how we were handling our young QB. That was embarrassing.

- At least we're not Denver or the Jets..hopefully this ass whooping helps us grow.  

- loved seeing Dallas lose to Arizona!

[skinsfan66]

14 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

He was bad today, but the OL often gives him no chance. How often can he get even 2-3 straight plays with noone in his face instantly to just restabilize. 

I can think of five guys in the last five years alone who were much worse.

 So can I, some have a short memory, Wentz first 4 games to name 1 is QB as a compare, just last year at 28 mil. But then again if you are getting beat up and your OL cannot not protect you? You will have these kind of results, 6 years 6 new starting QB's to start the season they all sucked here, had their worst season and never heard from most again except maybe TH as a backup. If Sam had Allen's time to throw today? Also Allen had a bad game like Sam's a couple games ago too and football people were complaining about the same thing after his 6th year in the league. So we Keep blaming the QB's and do nothing for the OL and things are not going to change. Put pressure on Allen and he can make the same mistakes.  

[actorguy1]