The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The wildcard to me is does Dan let him do it?  Dan's notoriously cheap with assistant coach contracts and hates eating them let alone doing it on his way out.

I agree.

 

There’s also the factor of likely frying Howell, who would likely end up on his 3rd OC come 2024.

[HigSkin]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I agree.

 

There’s also the factor of likely frying Howell, who would likely end up on his 3rd OC come 2024.

 

 

[shemp nixon]

2 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Kinda sucks knowing Howell is likely going to have to learn a new playbook but maybe the new guy brought in will have the same terminology of whatever it is that makes it easier to switch OCs.  I often say QBs unfairly take ALL the blame when they fail with nary a mention of 4 new playbooks in 5 years, ****ty OCs horrific line play etc. I am happy Scott is under the microscope. Fitz saying his playbook was complex is nothing to ignore. Heck Wentz looked lost most of the year.

 

Hopefully Howell can end solve our QB woes once and for all.  Bring a cheap vet backup and deal with it.

Turner runs his fathers version of the Coryell-Gibbs system.IMO there are guys out there that can run it better than Scott.  

[D’Pablo]

1 minute ago, shemp nixon said:

Turner runs his fathers version of the Coryell-Gibbs system.IMO there are guys out there that can run it better than Scott.  

I was researching this the other day- who is running Coryell these days? Last I saw, it was Jason Garrett and no one else.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Of course with the press conferences, they're not going to say anything.  Trying to decipher what means something is a fools errand.

 

I will flip my ****ing **** if they go for Derek Carr.  If Wentz is back somehow, I will throw eggs at Commanders park.  I'm fine with Heinicke coming back at a cheap rate, like 2 million a year for 2 years.  He's a fine backup.

 

I'm hesitant to just give the keys to Howell as starter for 2023 based off that one game.  This offseason I'd like to see them get a Brissett type or draft someone else to compete for the position.  Make Howell earn it, he's already got a good start.

 

But ****, man.  ****.  I can already see the wheels turning in Commies Park, they've gotta do what they always do which is to make a splash, get a name, get someone they can market, get someone that can help with brand recognition.  Carr is that guy.  They tried it with Wentz, it was a massive failure.  Carr is better but he's not a guy to build around.  

 

I hate the "they don't care about winning games" argument, it's so dumb and stupid.  It's dumb and stupid because OF COURSE THEY CARE ABOUT WINNING GAMES.  Winning games makes everything easier, winning games would get fans in the seats at that trash ass stadium.  It'd help them sell more merchandise.  It would create more revenue.  Yes, they already make a lot of revenue but they'd stand to make MORE OF IT if they won games.  

 

The only time that argument makes a tad bit of sense, a smidgen of sense to me is when they go out and sign a Wentz type and they need someone to market.  They need someone to splash on whatever ****ing dumbass campaign they have because Jonathan Allen and Terry McLaurin aren't enough.  And they know that they need a QUARTERBACK because most good teams have a QUARTERBACK and that gives some credibility to being a first rate organization because to be taken seriously you need to have a QUARTERBACK so we'll go out and we'll sign WENTZ because he was good, like, FOUR YEARS AGO and somehow last year he managed to throw for a good amount of touchdowns and we'll ignore the warning signs that the Colts can't get rid of him fast enough.

 

It's only then when they do this **** that I think "They really don't always place winning first, they really just care about marketing."

 

So it's that line of reasoning that makes me think that, God ****ing forbid, they'll try to stick their limp **** into the quarterback market and find someone, ANYONE, who has a bit of name recognition because SAM HOWELL doesn't.  Even though Sam Howell energizes the fanbase.  But they don't pay attention and they don't ****ing care.  Derek Carr is a bit of a name, Derek ****ing Carr raises the profile of the franchise a little bit.  

 

It was a Snyder move, Wentz.  And no one can tell me different.  No one can convince me otherwise.  It has Snyder's grubby little fingerprints all over it.  So maybe, just maybe, if left to his own devices, Ron will iron out the quarterback situation heading into next season.  I'm hoping Snyder can **** off and leave everyone alone as he goes to sell this team but I don't think we'll be that lucky.

 

Snyder wrangling Derek Carr into a Commanders uniform while on his way out the door is akn to him leaving an upper decker in Commanders Park right before he leaves on his last day.  I can see him in his big, blacked out GMC Yukon.  "Hold on Tanya, I have to go back and use the restroom real fast before we go,"  Goes back in, takes an upper decker, smiles and laughs to himself on the way back out to the Yukon.  

 

That's exactly what getting Derek Carr or whatever other "name" will be like this offseason.  I can see it coming because this is exactly what they do.  This is always what they do.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Spaceman Spiff

[Rex Tomb]

5 minutes ago, D’Pablo said:

Jason Garrett

Who is now a commentator, so that should tell you all you need to know about that dinosaur of an offense.

[Spaceman Spiff]

25 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

 

Didn't the flaming thumbtacks lose, like, 6 or 7 straight at the end of the season?  This dude sounds like a GREAT replacement.

[zCommander]

 

 

[NoCalMike]

That presser was a whole lot of nothing, and if anything I came away from it thinking they are less committed to Howell as a starter in 2023 then I previously did.

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, NoCalMike said:

That presser was a whole lot of nothing, and if anything I came away from it thinking they are less committed to Howell as a starter in 2023 then I previously did.

I didn't watch the presser but if true there is pure stupidity with the FO and cfoaching staff or anyone who thinks this.  

[DiscoBob]

Just now, RWJ said:

I didn't watch the presser but if true there is pure stupidity with the FO and cfoaching staff or anyone who thinks this.  

 

I think it's a forgone conclusion that there is a lot of stupid in that building... regardless of this specific situation!

[Wyvern]

3 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

Keep Scott. Howell is the starter. Heinicke backs him up and helps him continue learning the system in the meeting room and on the practice field. Get another developmental guy for 3rd string (Fromm, a rookie, idk).

 

Use the money to re-sign Payne and fix O-Line.

With the uncertain status of future ownership of the Washington franchise, I see the above as the likely way the current front office (FO) might want to go. No big investment in a new QB, for now, and instead just spend to keep the proven parts of the team intact and replenish the team's gaps via the draft rather than top-tier free agents that fit Turner's/Del Rio's systems.  Work to position the team's cap space to look good in 2024, so potential buyers will have room to make their mark on the 2024 team right away.

 

If need be, the current FO might leverage the Wentz 28 million in savings to simply consider franchising Payne as a short-term option, and leave the long-term decision for the next owner.  It's evident Payne is a proven performer, and most would consider it a safe investment along with restocking the O-line. 

 

I don't see the FO spending a lot to bring in a 'name' FA QB, much less any other FAs.  They've already got the 2023 season's 'marketing lure' -- come see the growth and the testing of a popular new rookie QB, but with popular veteran backup also in the wings.  And this way, they avoid creating mega-expensive long term contracts that the new ownership be reluctant to  have to deal with.   

 

The big issue is whether the current FO can sign Heinicke to modest 1-2 year contract.  If not, then the FO might try get a 1-year "prove it" deal with someone like Brissett, Minshew, Keenum,,or some other lower tier vet QB (even ancient backup Chase Daniels) who was willing to mentor Howell and step in on an emergency basis.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Wyvern

[KDawg]

Hearing what we’re hearing and the overall possible scenario that we have Rivera and staff for another season, it looks like it’s becoming clear the way this is going to shake out.

 

The staff stays. Including Turner.

 

Heinicke is brought back to compete with Howell for the QB spot unless we have a guy fall in our lap that a lack of ownership can still pull off.

 

Shore up the OL and see what happens.

[Conn]

38 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

Who is now a commentator, so that should tell you all you need to know about that dinosaur of an offense.

what I’m hearing you say is that he’s available, with no coaching prospects, and even a 1% chance to raise his profile for a future HC gig would pull that ginger **** out of the TV studio 

 

oh god 

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

Please. No.

[Rex Tomb]

Just now, Conn said:

what I’m hearing you say is that he’s available, with no coaching prospects, and even a 1% chance to raise his profile for a future HC gig would pull that ginger **** out of the TV studio 

 

oh god 

 

Uh no… 😂

[skinsmania123]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Hearing what we’re hearing and the overall possible scenario that we have Rivera and staff for another season, it looks like it’s becoming clear the way this is going to shake out.

 

The staff stays. Including Turner.

 

Heinicke is brought back to compete with Howell for the QB spot unless we have a guy fall in our lap that a lack of ownership can still pull off.

 

Shore up the OL and see what happens.

After listening to that press conference with Mayhew and Rivera, I realized the whole gang is coming back. Just so many excuses for the gameplans, the calls, etc. Everything from we are a run team first. That is how we are successful, etc. 

[JSSkinz]

The presser is what I expected, I don't have a problem with them not committing to Sam, I don't understand the compulsive need to anoint Sam the starter next year. It makes no sense to do that 2 days after we played our last game of the season.

 

The FO has no idea what opportunities can pop up during the offseason so committing to anyone this early in the offseason is ignorant, IMO.

 

My biggest take was on Payne, Martin said "it would be difficult to move on with out him, we have a plan".

 

IMO we cant continue to let good players go because what we've learned is that we cant replace them in free agency due to cash flow, players not wanting to play here, etc. so stop worrying about signing Chase and Sweat until they prove they are worthy of the huge contracts they will want.  We can deal with those problems down the road if they ever come to fruition and based on what we have seen, especially against better teams, neither one of those guys looks like a special player.

 

As for Scott, Ron was asked how he thought Scott did this season and he said "Scott did what he tried to do", not necessarily a glowing endorsement, especially with the body language and tone he used saying it.  Not sure what it means.

Edited January 10, 2023 by JSSkinz

[CommanderInTheRye]

21 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

 

I think it's a forgone conclusion that there is a lot of stupid in that building... regardless of this specific situation!

 

 

"...there is a lot of stupid in that building..."

 

Translating the above into typical Rivera-gobbledygook-speak we would get...

 

Rivera: "While our office structure and disappointing results would on the surface seem to deserve a classification of "moronicly stupid"  any categorical statements, at this juncture, would be premature and overly simplistic.

 

Before making any definitive conclusions we first need to undertake an exhaustive, detailed review of all procedures over the next few weeks.

 

Next question?"

[skinny21]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Hearing what we’re hearing and the overall possible scenario that we have Rivera and staff for another season, it looks like it’s becoming clear the way this is going to shake out.

 

The staff stays. Including Turner.

 

Heinicke is brought back to compete with Howell for the QB spot unless we have a guy fall in our lap that a lack of ownership can still pull off.

 

Shore up the OL and see what happens.

Mostly thinking the same.  I’ll be honest, as much as I’ve defended Heinicke, I had also been saying throughout the season that I kinda hoped we wouldn’t bring him back.  My calculus has changed a bit seeing Howell in action.  I’d elevate Howell to defacto starter, bring back TH, look to add a developmental qb, and have the latter two split 2nd team reps through the offseason.  In-season, you probably put TH as the backup (unless the 3rd guy surprises).

 

I totally get the argument that we need actual competition for Howell (and TH ain’t it IMO).  But do we really want to split time between Howell (who needs the 1st team reps), and a vet who will also need those same reps because they’ll face an uphill battle adjusting to this offense?

 

And to clarify on “my calculus changing” - it wasn’t Howell’s production (or the final score) that did it for me.  It wasn’t even so much a validation of the tools we know he has - accuracy, deep ball/running ability - but rather that we just weren’t sure about the unknowns - footwork, reads, getting the ball out quickly/on time, would he get flustered, etc.  So I think we saw enough to go all in on his development, vs slow playing it by splitting time in a competition.  And he did it behind a shaky oline, vs a talented pass rush/D, with a run game that wasn’t that productive for much of the game.

 

And last point here, in a vacuum, would I rather Brisset than Heinicke?  Absolutely.  But if we save several mil by going with the guy who’s fine not competing for the starting gig, and that already knows the offense?  That changes things IMO.

[Renegade7]

42 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Hearing what we’re hearing and the overall possible scenario that we have Rivera and staff for another season, it looks like it’s becoming clear the way this is going to shake out.

 

The staff stays. Including Turner.

 

Heinicke is brought back to compete with Howell for the QB spot unless we have a guy fall in our lap that a lack of ownership can still pull off.

 

Shore up the OL and see what happens.

 

Everybody happy, everybody mad approach...

[RandyHolt]

We are so going to overpay for a meh vet QB. I sure hope we don't throw in a few extra first round picks. 

[NewCliche21]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Hearing what we’re hearing and the overall possible scenario that we have Rivera and staff for another season, it looks like it’s becoming clear the way this is going to shake out.

 

The staff stays. Including Turner.

 

Heinicke is brought back to compete with Howell for the QB spot unless we have a guy fall in our lap that a lack of ownership can still pull off.

 

Shore up the OL and see what happens.

 

My take on it, not saying you're advocating or arguing against what you wrote.

I mean, it's not the worst possible outcome. My preference is Ron stays, Turner gets stuck in a literal revolving door of fake jet sweeps, and we do the above. Keep Payne, get the offensive line instead of the offensive dotted-line-my-kid-uses-to-learn-how-to-write-letters, and see how it goes with a real owner.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Hearing what we’re hearing and the overall possible scenario that we have Rivera and staff for another season, it looks like it’s becoming clear the way this is going to shake out.

 

The staff stays. Including Turner.

 

Heinicke is brought back to compete with Howell for the QB spot unless we have a guy fall in our lap that a lack of ownership can still pull off.

 

Shore up the OL and see what happens.

 

If Turner is back, Rivera had a funny way of showing it.  But I think he might be back whether he likes it or not, with Dan at the helm still.

 

Scott has had a rough week leading up to today but today would feel like the worst day of them all if I were him

 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]