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The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

Koolblue13

By Koolblue13
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KillBill26

KillBill26

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I watched Duggan some, he's a player i plan to dive deeper as to watching soon.  He's a dude who plays with moxie and has some decent mobility.

Duggan had a great season, and was impressive in the games I watched.  I remember him starting as a freshman but struggled, and then benefitted from sonny dykes system.

 

After reading on how he would translate to the NFL, his knocks seem to be that he doesn't have elite arm strength, and struggles with consistency with accuracy, reading the defense, and footwork.   But he is mobile, tough, clutch, and is a leader.   He did a great job with the short passing game and RPO, and could also go vertical.  Sounds like exactly what we were looking for this season.

 

Generally speaking, Big 12 is not known for stingy defenses, so those knocks on him can be scary. But I don't see him going before day 3, so if we feel the footwork and reading defenses can be improved, then I think he can be successful in the right environment, and well worth a later pick.  If we get our oline issues ironed out, we will have a pretty good situation for a young qb to walk into: playmakers and a solid defense.   At this point, I think I'd rather wait for duggan late, than take nix, tune, DTR, or hall earlier on.  At that stage in the draft, every QB has their warts, I'd rather use more premium draft capital at other spots and take a flyer on Duggan.

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skinny21

skinny21

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

Yeah you can still have that 1-2 year windows with JAGs at QB but it requires significantly higher than average FO production to replace the inevitable roster shrink that occurs.

I can’t decide if I agree with this (that it takes “significantly higher than average FO production”).  One thing I’ll say though, is I believe that it boils down to something Rivera has talked about since arriving - sustainability.  So you have to have succession planning, which is about both bringing in youth to develop, but also cheaper vet backups to compete with that youth.  You won’t always get the development you hoped for, but you have the insurance policy of at least semi-competent play from the vet placeholders.

Some examples along those lines:

McCain and Reaves paired with Forrest and Butler

Jackson and DJ paired with St Juste, Holmes, and Castro-Fields

Lucas with Cosmi

Norwell, Turner and Schweitzer with Paul and Charles

Sims with Dotson and Brown 

Logan (and Bates to an extent) with Turner, Rogers, Hodges

and so on.

The timing is tricky for sure though.  Mathis can’t be seen (yet) as a replacement for Payne, for example.  But we could reasonably see Eifler and/or a rookie competing with Mayo for that 2nd ILB spot.  We could possibly cut Fuller, and bring back DJ (for much less money) to compete with Holmes and a rook, etc.

Edited by skinny21
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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'll give you the 9ers but the Steelers? They literally had a future HOF QB for like 15 years.

 

It's a borderline one for me, i am referencing later years but if someone needs to reject that example, I am ok with that.  The Titans is a better example.  Ditto Chiefs with Alex Smith.   49ers,

 

It's not my preferred route at QB, I'd love to have my own Brady, Rodgers, etc, who wouldn't? 

 

But in the NFC right now I don't think you need Aaron Rodgers to be a playoff team. 

 

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Chump Bailey

Chump Bailey

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4 hours ago, Zim489 said:

Hes pretty good in a lot of ways but I wouldnt say elite in any of them. Hes also not big.

 

Its hard to see a path to elite QB play with him. I think the Buffalo KC in the playoffs last year opened a lot of eyes. "If we dont have one of those guys we dont have a chance" i feel was said by a lot of teams in the offseason. We have been seeing it develop over years but I think this year was the first true embracement of if youre not elite or have a chance to be elite youre going to fall. 

 

I would counter his arm and mobility are at a minimum well above average and is elite concerning his ability to go deep - IMO. Sure, it'd be nice if he had the physique of Trevor Lawrence but I think we can be too enamored with that aspect. Nobody has pegged Sam as the solution yet but the body of work thus far is encouraging. 

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No Nonsense

No Nonsense

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Posted
1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

Howell has proven we can instantly move on from Wentz and Heinicke. Dump them like today. I still think a high priced vet will be coming in though.


I don’t want to be a prisoner of the moment, but unless it’s Lamar or Aaron Rodgers, I’d be OK if we went into camp with Howell as the starter. 

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Est.1974

Est.1974

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, No Nonsense said:


I don’t want to be a prisoner of the moment, but unless it’s Lamar or Aaron Rodgers, I’d be OK if we went into camp with Howell as the starter. 

Agree. Go real big or roll with Howell. Paying 10mil per year for a mid tier vet is pointless to me.

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Zim489

Zim489

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Posted
11 minutes ago, No Nonsense said:


I don’t want to be a prisoner of the moment, but unless it’s Lamar or Aaron Rodgers, I’d be OK if we went into camp with Howell as the starter. 

I don’t Want any big moves when everyone in power is gone within the year

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ExoDus84

ExoDus84

Posted
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53 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

After reading on how he would translate to the NFL, his knocks seem to be that he doesn't have elite arm strength, and struggles with consistency with accuracy, reading the defense, and footwork.

 

So basically he struggles with playing the QB position?

 

Somewhere, Vinny Cerrato is moving him up his draft board.

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Dan T.

Dan T.

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

 

 

 

Taylor Heinicke is an ideal backup.  He is comfortable with that role.  He has good rapport with Sam Howell, should Sam Howell be tabbed as the future. He has the support of teammates, who respond to him when he is playing. He has shown he can step in and produce in a pinch. He will not cost a lot.

 

And he wants to be here.

 

Re-sign him

Edited by Dan T.
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srtman04

srtman04

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

No, one game was enough in conjunction with the context of where we are as a franchise - to give him next year to prove whether he’s the guy or not.

 

Yep, he's earned that chance and it should be the right call going into the season next year.  

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88Comrade2000

88Comrade2000

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

 

 

 

 

Taylor Heinicke is an ideal backup.  He is comfortable with that role.  He has good rapport with Sam Howell, should Sam Howell be tabbed as the future. He has the support of teammates, who respond to him when he is playing. He has shown he can step in and produce in a pinch. He will not cost a lot.

 

And he wants to be here.

 

Re-sign him

Let him go. If Scott gets the boot, he’s not coming back.

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method man

method man

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Posted

The "veteran" guy they bring in should be very dependent on who the OC is next year. If they move on from Turner, then move on from Heinicke. If they go with a WCO guy off the Reid/Shanny tree, Minshew and Brissett are solid options. Ultimately, they should cap themselves to a max of $5M/yr for this veteran guy and ideally for one year

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Dan T.

Dan T.

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Let him go. 

 

Why? 

 

Cost? Nope.

Distraction? Nope. He's realistic about - and okay with - the backup role.

Effectiveness? Nope.  He has shown he can run the offense as a fill-in.

Support of teammates? Nope.

 

Why?

 

 

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EmirOfShmo

EmirOfShmo

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:
I'm trying to find the play. He got hit almost immediately, which I think is why Terry dropped it, but he may have just been locked on to him. Odd, since he was reading the field really well most of the game. I think he does have a habit of that from College though.

Here's a link to the play (with replay) at 1:56:45. Looks like the DAL DL got the jump on the right side and a slow snap to Howell who was pressured quickly. Had to get rid of it fast. He never looked left pre-snap except to motion Williams to split wide. A teachable moment for sure. 

This was Howell's last pass of the game with 9+ minutes left in the game. 

 

https://nfl-video.com/dallas-cowboys-vs-washington-commanders-full-game-replay-2022-nfl-week-18

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KillBill26

KillBill26

Posted
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51 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

So basically he struggles with playing the QB position?

 

Somewhere, Vinny Cerrato is moving him up his draft board.

Lol.

 

Footwork is correctable, and I read he has had issues with reading defenses, including presnap reads.  Did he work thru those issues and improved, not sure, but that seems like something that someone with work ethic will improve upon.  He did well with RPO and can go through progressions, so I don't think it's a processing issue. 

 

But at that juncture of the draft, they all have some issues, or they'd be taken a lot earlier.

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