The Trump Riot Aftermath (Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes found guilty of seditious conspiracy. Proud Boys join the club)

[Cooked Crack]

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Cooked Crack

[hail2skins]

Sounds like Trumps Thursday news conference is no longer.

[purbeast]

19 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

Sounds like Trumps Thursday news conference is no longer.

Weak.

 

I was looking forward to the lulz.

[EmirOfShmo]

Best text to Orange Turd supporters on 1/6/22?

Happy Insurrectionist Anniversary Orange Turd Supporters! Stop the Steal! We really won, you guys! I have a banner to prove it!

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[Llevron]

They are legit going to celebrate this **** every year ain’t they?

 

How I pray for hyper localized, hyper partisan acid rain. 

[EmirOfShmo]

 

Uh, No? As in - you didn't know you just described a coup? 

[LD0506]

1 minute ago, EmirOfShmo said:

Uh, No? As in - you didn't know you just described a coup? 

 

No, they really don't

They don't get why that would be a bad thing

They don't get why anyone might object

Etc.

Etc.

They don't get IS their plan, they are anti-fact, anti-learning, anti-intellect, essentially anti-everything except their own immediate selfish needs.

There is nothing deep to it, no grand plan or 4d chess, nothing, just an infant's tantrum because they were denied cookies.

That's it

[PCS]

 

 

[Larry]

51 minutes ago, EmirOfShmo said:

 

Uh, No? As in - you didn't know you just described a coup? 

 

Actually, maybe it's just me, but that video looks like there's been a lot of editing done, to create that "question and answer".  

[redskinss]

5 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Actually, maybe it's just me, but that video looks like there's been a lot of editing done, to create that "question and answer".  

There was, definitely a lot out of context when you watch the full video.

But still pretty true.

They may claim that they just wanted to exhaust all legal remedies but when he said he wanted to have it thrown back to the house where everybody knows the Republicans had power then his excuse loses validity. 

[Larry]

21 minutes ago, PCS said:

 

 

 

It seems unedited.  Although, when I play it, the "related videos" shows me a "Part 2".  So it seems it continues.  

 

 

 

And well, Navarro's point seems to be the exact opposite of what Lincoln Project is presenting.  BUT, the quotes, in context, are accurate.  

 

Navarro leads off by flat out stating that the reason he's here is because his book conclusively proves that Trump bears no responsibility for Jan 6.  

 

The problem is, his "proof that Trump is blameless" is that well, he, and several others, including Trump himself, Ted Cruz, and over 100 Republican Senators and Congressmen, had spent a month preparing a way they could abuse their power as part of an organized plan to overturn the results of an election, and refuse to hand power to the person who won.  

 

In fact, he literally states that when the rioters breached the building, Cruz and Gosar had already undertaken the first steps in the plan.  (3:00 in the first video).  

[Chachie]

42 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

And well, Navarro's point seems to be the exact opposite of what Lincoln Project is presenting.  BUT, the quotes, in context, are accurate.  

 

Navarro leads off by flat out stating that the reason he's here is because his book conclusively proves that Trump bears no responsibility for Jan 6.  

 

The problem is, his "proof that Trump is blameless" is that well, he, and several others, including Trump himself, Ted Cruz, and over 100 Republican Senators and Congressmen, had spent a month preparing a way they could abuse their power as part of an organized plan to overturn the results of an election, and refuse to hand power to the person who won.  

 

In fact, he literally states that when the rioters breached the building, Cruz and Gosar had already undertaken the first steps in the plan.  (3:00 in the first video).  

 

 

These people would do well to simply STFU. In their fervor to "exonerate" Trump, they incriminate themselves and Donnie. They're all wormy and evasive enough to beat this rap but they just can't keep their mouths shut. The desperation is palpable and telling.

 

(Not that I think anything will happen. I'm too used to the dems in congress being impotent.)

[The Evil Genius]

 

[goskins10]

This is a pretty good discussion about the entire right wing phenomena. It is built around Jan 6th, but touches other areas of how they argue, communication breakdowns and general discussions on the ramifications. It's a long video - just under 45 mins but I found it interesting. It's Jordan Klepper and Chris Hayes so it can also be funny at times. But they have some serious discussion also. I particularly like when they discuss the debate (lack thereof) position many take. Simply I am not going to admit you are right no matter what. That's around the 10:30 mark. 

 

 

 

[NoCalMike]

Would switching to a popular vote (not that I think it would happen anytime soon, if ever) help or hurt with these kind of coup attempts?  

 

I'm eager to see what happens to the GOP when Trump is done with politics.  Crossing my fingers that the 2024 talks is just a bunch blustering to keep all the poor saps sending money to Margo Largo.  Will they go back to just being normal crazy and try to quickly erase all this stuff from people's memories, or was all this more of an enlightening experience to them and behind the scenes they are still actively looking at the aspects of 1/6 that were effective and how to more efficiently do it in the future whether Trump is there or not.  

 

I don't see how this country survives if every four years we have to go through this nonsense by whoever loses, regardless of party.  I am not ready to assume every GOP member that loses a Presidential election going forward will attempt this because in order to foster the fever behind this you need a cult-like following the way Trump has and most of the Trump wannabees simply don't enjoy that.

Edited January 5, 2022 by NoCalMike

[GhostofSparta]

11 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Would switching to a popular vote (not that I think it would happen anytime soon, if ever) help or hurt with these kind of coup attempts?  

It would help facilitate them. Immensely. All that matters is if you can rile up your true believers enough to try a coup, not what the truth is.

 

The Republicans have won the popular vote for President 1 time since Bush 1 left office almost 30 years ago, and it was the re-election of the guy who didn't win it the 1st time, so that's one of those "technically true while still feeling incorrect" type situations. Trump lost the pop vote both times, and each time claimed there were millions of fraudulent votes. So it wouldn't matter to the Trumper diehards that he lost by 10 million votes instead of by <100,000 in 4-5 combined states, it would still be "illegal alien deep state pedophile fraud" or whatever to them. They will not accept any outcome but the one they want.

 

And if it's the hope of swaying the Great Masses in the Middle instead of the diehards, well...look at how those masses are reacting now, and it'll pretty much tell you how it would go in your alternate scenario.

Edited January 5, 2022 by GhostofSparta

[NoCalMike]

1 minute ago, GhostofSparta said:

It would help facilitate them. Immensely. All that matters is if you can rile up your true believers enough to try a coup, not what the truth is.

 

The Republicans have won the popular vote for President 1 time since Bush 1 left office almost 30 years ago, and it was the re-election of the guy who didn't win it the 1st time, so that's one of those "technically true while still feeling incorrect" type situations. Trump lost the pop vote both times, and each time claimed there were millions of fraudulent votes. So it wouldn't matter to the Trumper diehards that he lost by 10 million votes instead of by <100,000 in 4-5 combined states, it would still be "illegal alien deep state pedophile fraud" or whatever to them. They will not accept any outcome but the one they want.

 

And if it's the hope of swaying the Great Masses in the Middle instead of the diehards, well...look at how those masses are reacting now, and it'll pretty much tell you how it would go in your alternate scenario.

 

I didn't so much mean who would win under a popular vote scenario, because that is pretty clear that as the parties stand right now, the GOP would have a tough time winning a national election.  I more meant the election systems itself.  Would a popular vote system change at all how the elections themselves were run, how votes were collected, who oversees the counting, certifying, etc etc......would it mean more federal oversight or less.   Ignore the actual votes themselves and think more about what is done with the votes once they are cast.  I am not making a statement either way, just that I have no idea if it would hurt or help.

[goskins10]

34 minutes ago, GhostofSparta said:

It would help facilitate them. Immensely. All that matters is if you can rile up your true believers enough to try a coup, not what the truth is.

 

The Republicans have won the popular vote for President 1 time since Bush 1 left office almost 30 years ago, and it was the re-election of the guy who didn't win it the 1st time, so that's one of those "technically true while still feeling incorrect" type situations. Trump lost the pop vote both times, and each time claimed there were millions of fraudulent votes. So it wouldn't matter to the Trumper diehards that he lost by 10 million votes instead of by <100,000 in 4-5 combined states, it would still be "illegal alien deep state pedophile fraud" or whatever to them. They will not accept any outcome but the one they want.

 

And if it's the hope of swaying the Great Masses in the Middle instead of the diehards, well...look at how those masses are reacting now, and it'll pretty much tell you how it would go in your alternate scenario.

 

I disagree with the first bolded because of the second bolded. The only thing that matters is they win by any means. If changing the structure has any effect at all, I believe moving to a popular vote will take some of thier voice away and actually hasten thier demise. But again I think the die is cast and this entire right wing movement will run it's course. 

 

The question I have is will it lose momentum before the quiet masses get tired of the rantings and fight back or after. I say this because the only thing that keeps me sane is the firm belief that the true majority of Americans do not think like these right wing nut cases and that at some point they will get tired of the garbage as it starts to impact them directly. When that happens they will put an end to it through the current systems we have. I realize that is very likely more wishful thinking than anything. However, the alternative only ends in a civil war. I cant imagine living in a country with a real civil war going on.

 

I am within a few years of retirement so I have been looking at other countries to go to in case this ignorance gets another shot, i.e. trump or trump like lackey gets elected in 2024. Portugal and Panama are the leading contenders. Large US Expat population, government health care, relatively inexpensive to repatriate there and low cost of living. 

 

Will I actually move? Not sure to be honest. I am just taking it one day at a time right now. 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by goskins10

[GhostofSparta]

29 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I didn't so much mean who would win under a popular vote scenario, because that is pretty clear that as the parties stand right now, the GOP would have a tough time winning a national election.  I more meant the election systems itself.  Would a popular vote system change at all how the elections themselves were run, how votes were collected, who oversees the counting, certifying, etc etc......would it mean more federal oversight or less.   Ignore the actual votes themselves and think more about what is done with the votes once they are cast.  I am not making a statement either way, just that I have no idea if it would hurt or help.

I just meant that it wouldn't matter which system we use, the less popular party (which for 30 years, has been the Republicans) will always find a way to blame losses on anything but themselves and their policy. So if you have to claim 10,000 illegals voted in Florida to give the other side a win, you do that. If you have to claim there are 15 million illegal votes in the whole country as the reason you lost, you do that. Once your side believe the small lie, scaling up isn't too much of a problem. And if you only need a couple thousand useful idiots in the same place to successfully stage a coup in your favor, then that's who you aim for.

 

As for who would run elections, well....you'd need a way to break the current 2 party setup for any real change. If the losing party realizes that all they need are a few hundred True Believers in the right spots to swing any election however they want, I don't see an easy fix no matter how obvious the solution may seem.

3 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I disagree with the first bolded because of the second bolded. The only thing that matters is they win by any means. If changing the structure has any effect at all, I believe moving to a popular vote will take some of thier voice away and actually hasten thier demise. But again I think the die is cast and this entire right win movement will run it's course. 

 

The question I have is will it lose momentum before the quiet masses get tired of the rantings and fight back or after. I say this because the only thing that keeps me sane is the firm belief that the true majority of Americans do not think like these right wing nut cases and that at some point they will get tired of the garbage as it starts to impact them directly. When that happens they will put an end to it through the current systems we have. I realize that is very likely more wishful thinking than anything. However, the alternative only ends in a civil war. I cant imagine living in a country with a real civil war going on.

But how bad does it have to become for the Great Apathetic Middle to actually care? If there's a coup, but it's peaceful enough, will they stand up to it or will they just accept their new fate if it's less work? How many people, just 1 year on, actually still care about 1/6? They failed a coup, but there were minimal casualties and a few low level schmucks are being given some punishment. Nobody with any real power has faced and consequences, and they learned a few important lessons for next time.

 

And if it's "not that bad" for long enough, when The Middle does rise up, do they pick the side already in power (even if illegitimately) simply because staying the course will be less disruptive to their life than the alternative? I mean, look at Virginia. Am I supposed to believe that the parents that voted out the sitting governor simply because enough suburban moms wanted their kids to go back to school building during the day but also think teachers are brainwashing their white kids to hate themselves because their kids learn racism is a thing would give a **** about a coup attempt that barely affected THEIR lives?

[Larry]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

I don't see how this country survives if every four years we have to go through this nonsense by whoever loses, regardless of party.  I am not ready to assume every GOP member that loses a Presidential election going forward will attempt this because in order to foster the fever behind this you need a cult-like following the way Trump has and most of the Trump wannabees simply don't enjoy that.

 

1)  I don't see where you get this notoin of "whoever loses, regardless of party".  

 

2)  And this isn't a "Trump thing", either.  

 

Republican voter suppression has been going on for decades.  They have entire systems set up, to try to make their cover story sound believable.  

 

And this coup wasn't just Trump, either.  

 

Remember Mitch McConnell, a month before the election, being asked whether he will support a peaceful transition of power, and him responding that he will support the election "once every legal vote is counted"?  

 

The Republican Party, the entire Party, knew in advance that they were going to lose, and that their plan was to simply throw out votes until the votes that were left, gave them the results.  And Mitch McConnel was actively working on that conspiracy, a month before the election.  

 

As was every single Republican advising his voters to vote in person on election day.  Show me a Republican giving that advice, and I'll show you a Republican who knew in advance that they were planning on trying to throw out votes, and they wanted the pile with the "in person on election day" label to be as tilted Republican as possible.  Someone who was aware of a plan to overthrow an election, approved of the plan, and was willing to do his part to help with it.  

Edited January 5, 2022 by Larry

[purbeast]

This is painful to watch but also a must watch.

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

Would switching to a popular vote (not that I think it would happen anytime soon, if ever) help or hurt with these kind of coup attempts?  

 

I'm eager to see what happens to the GOP when Trump is done with politics.  Crossing my fingers that the 2024 talks is just a bunch blustering to keep all the poor saps sending money to Margo Largo.  Will they go back to just being normal crazy and try to quickly erase all this stuff from people's memories, or was all this more of an enlightening experience to them and behind the scenes they are still actively looking at the aspects of 1/6 that were effective and how to more efficiently do it in the future whether Trump is there or not.  

 

I don't see how this country survives if every four years we have to go through this nonsense by whoever loses, regardless of party.  I am not ready to assume every GOP member that loses a Presidential election going forward will attempt this because in order to foster the fever behind this you need a cult-like following the way Trump has and most of the Trump wannabees simply don't enjoy that.

Unless you have a cult like following,  you can't replicate what Trump has. What they could do, is steal it legally by limiting voters and throw out votes.

[TheGreatBuzz]

20 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Yup.  And while I get that the DOJ is supposedly “independent” of the executive branch, he was Biden’s pick so Biden has some responsibility for those failings.

 

I thought this would generate a little bit of debate.  Does anyone else think the DOJ is under-performing and if so, how much blame do you put on Biden/the Dems?

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by TheGreatBuzz
double post

[China]

9 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

I thought this would generate a little bit of debate.  Does anyone else think the DOJ is under-performing and if so, how much blame do you put on Biden/the Dems?

 

 

It does seem like the DOJ is underperforming.  However, the DOJ is also notorious for being conservative, in that it likes to be fairly certain it is going to win cases before it brings charges, especially against public officials.  I also think they are still gathering information, including information that is/will be provided by the Jan. 6th committee, such that, even when/if the committee disappears after the 2022 elections, the DOJ can continue to use the evidence to prosecute people.  But like you and many people, I feel the wheels of justice are moving much too slowly for my tastes.