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The Official Heinicke Hive Thread


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4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

You can't point to a W-L record and pin that on the starting quarterback.  During that winning streak the team faced the likes of Ryan Finley, Andy Dalton, and Nick Mullens.  Also got lucky enough to have Doug Pederson bench Hurts to play Nate Sudfeld last night.  And some of those losses that are attributed to the other starters were games where he played the majority in...and looked terrible.  Realistically, this team is 4-3 with him in games where he's played the majority of this season.

 

You can when it’s that different from the other quarterbacks. Yes you can and yes I did.

 

What you can’t do is attempt to measure Smith vs. what other QBs who are more highly skilled could do with the same roster. But you can measure Smith against the guys we’ve had since 2018.

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24 minutes ago, KDawg said:

But you can measure Smith against the guys we’ve had since 2018.

 

Honest question:

 

If Kyle Allen never got hurt, do you think this team is the same, better, or worse right now?  Identical opponents, etc.  

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Just the fact that Taylor has 2 healthy legs, I believe he needs to play next week.  Turner was forced to call the game like he did last night.  I believe Scott knew with Alex’s inability to move, all he had was to throw to the flat.  I wasn’t shocked at all when Epps jumped JD in the flat for the pick.  Quite frankly any Qb can come in and throw to the flat or check down every down.  Did we throw the ball at all over 25 yards all game???  
 

Tampa will blitz and blitz more if Alex is in, I love his story and his grit to come back.  But after watching last night, you could see he was gun shy to throw the ball anywhere down the field.  Or he can’t, because he cannot push off his injured leg. 

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9 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Honest question:

 

If Kyle Allen never got hurt, do you think this team is the same, better, or worse right now?  Identical opponents, etc.  

I don’t know. Allen moved the offense much better. But it’s clear Smith has something that the team believes in. 
 

I think I can say that I believe the offensive production would be better from a yardage perspective. Not sure about little things like hard counts and stuff like that in those veteran situations. 
 

I’m comfortable with Allen as a stop gap/bridge type starter AND our long term backup QB though. I like him.

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I totally get why folks want Heinicke to start.  it's obvious Alex is hobbled to the point he looks not only incredibly slow but unable to step into throws we will need to have a chance on Saturday night.  

 

But, I just can't see plugging Heinicke into a playoff game for his second NFL start.  I realize he was a breathe of fresh air against the Panthers simply by moving the ball.  But he's suited up for a total of 8 games in his career, was not on a roster in 2019, and in the limited time he did play in 2018, he had a touchdown and 3 picks.

 

 

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1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I totally get why folks want Heinicke to start.  it's obvious Alex is hobbled to the point he looks not only incredibly slow but unable to step into throws we will need to have a chance on Saturday night.  

 

But, I just can't see plugging Heinicke into a playoff game for his second NFL start.  I realize he was a breathe of fresh air against the Panthers simply by moving the ball.  But he's suited up for a total of 8 games in his career, was not on a roster in 2019, and in the limited time he did play in 2018, he had a touchdown and 3 picks.

 

 

 

We are playing with house money.  Smith looked ok on the first drive but as the game went on it was obvious he was too gimpy to be really effective.  When a replay showed Smith throwing with his bad leg way up in the air, I had a flashback to RG3 in his one playoff game.  Is a 50% Smith better than a 100% Heinicke?  Tampa has the playbook to shut 50% Smith down.  IMO, Heinicke gives the team a better chance to win.  So what if they lose?  If Smith starts and loses will the reaction be any different?  As the backup, Smith might be good for one quarter.  That's still a plus for the team.   

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2 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

We are playing with house money.  Smith looked ok on the first drive but as the game went on it was obvious he was too gimpy to be really effective.  When a replay showed Smith throwing with his bad leg way up in the air, I had a flashback to RG3 in his one playoff game.  Is a 50% Smith better than a 100% Heinicke?  Tampa has the playbook to shut 50% Smith down.  IMO, Heinicke gives the team a better chance to win.  So what if they lose?  If Smith starts and loses will the reaction be any different?  As the backup, Smith might be good for one quarter.  That's still a plus for the team.   

Like I said, I get the desire to play the guy who can move and throw.

 

But the only way a coach can really make that decision is if Alex says he can't go.  I'm certain the team would rather the experienced vet who is limited, play over the undrafted QB with very little experience, particularly in the playoffs, against the greatest of all time.

 

That said, I can see a scenario where Alex starts but is ready to hand the reigns over should he be playing like he did last night, because that's not going to work against Tampa.

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2 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Honest question:

 

If Kyle Allen never got hurt, do you think this team is the same, better, or worse right now?  Identical opponents, etc.  

I believe we'd be better...We'd have beaten the NYG the second time, at home, and we'd have beaten Carolina last week. Allen had the team moving before he got hurt. 

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This has probably been posted but I don't feel like looking through 15 pages of posts for it. But I've been looking for info on Heinicke's arm strength and scouting stuff and found this article. 

 

https://www.dailypress.com/sports/college/old-dominion/dp-spt-odu-football-pro-day-heinicke-20150319-story.html

 

 

 

Quote

"I think he silenced a lot of the critics, with regards to arm strength," said Heinicke's trainer, Earl Williams. "That was our goal."

Quote

Earl Williams said that he and his staff tailored workouts to address scouts' concerns about Heinicke — his size, his arm strength, and his ability to make throws out of a pro-style set. They couldn't do anything about his height, obviously, but he added muscle and strength, which were apparent in Thursday's workout

Quote

He was measured at 6-foot and 3/8-inches and a cut 215 pounds, with just seven percent body fat. He clocked 4.58 seconds and 4.61 seconds in the 40-yard dash. He broad-jumped 10-feet, 3-inches and registered a 35-inch vertical jump.

[/quote]

 
Quote

"We've already had four scouts come up and say, well, the arm strength is no question any more," Williams said. "So that was mission accomplished."

 

 
Quote
Heinicke clearly benefited from workouts at GPS, as well as multiple sessions at former NFL quarterback Jeff Garcia's camp in San Diego.
 
"He's my same size, same stature, and he went through it all, as well," Heinicke said of Garcia. "So he pretty much prepped me for what today was going to be like. He helped my arm strength tons. The ball really comes out now. I definitely credit him and Earl."

 

Edited by Thinking Skins
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I like Heinicke, but I've heard the story about "training to have a stronger arm" before from Colt McCoy. From what I've seen, arm strength never gets better. I hope they plan around what he has rather than pretend he'll do more than he already can.

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21 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I like Heinicke, but I've heard the story about "training to have a stronger arm" before from Colt McCoy. From what I've seen, arm strength never gets better. I hope they plan around what he has rather than pretend he'll do more than he already can.

Well its interesting because I read another article today about Turner saying that Heinicke had an arm and was used in Hail Mary's in Carolina because Cam had hurt his arm that year. 

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29 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I like Heinicke, but I've heard the story about "training to have a stronger arm" before from Colt McCoy. From what I've seen, arm strength never gets better. I hope they plan around what he has rather than pretend he'll do more than he already can.


uhhh Tom Brady?

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You guys do realize you're setting yourself up for disappointment if Heinicke ****s the bed, right?  

 

I think a lot of the posters here are rational and well-informed.  But this board goes WAY off the rails the minute someone puts up some good production in a very small sample size.  It's a weird place.

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I'm not sure anyone thinks TH is the second coming of Joe Montana, and I've probably been one of, if not THE loudest on the board begging for us to give him a chance.  Instead, this is about it is CLEAR Alex is incredibly limited and is holding this team back.  Give the kid the shot, because as stated above, it's hard to imagine a 100% TH isn't better for this team than a 30% effective Alex, which is what we're currently facing. 

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20 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

You guys do realize you're setting yourself up for disappointment if Heinicke ****s the bed, right?  

 

I think a lot of the posters here are rational and well-informed.  But this board goes WAY off the rails the minute someone puts up some good production in a very small sample size.  It's a weird place.

 

 

That’s a completely absurd statement bordering on clinical delusion with no validity in reality whatsoever. You are in dire need of an intensive period of convalescent care under professional guidance and observation.

 

 

 

Now onto the serious business of planning our victory ticker tape parade after Heineke leads us to our fourth Lombardi trophy. Do you guys prefer to start on Constitution Avenue and end on Pennsylvania avenue like the Nats did or do the opposite ala Gibbs 1.0?

 

 

Edited by TrancesWithWolves
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15 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

You guys do realize you're setting yourself up for disappointment if Heinicke ****s the bed, right?  

 

I think a lot of the posters here are rational and well-informed.  But this board goes WAY off the rails the minute someone puts up some good production in a very small sample size.  It's a weird place.

I don't think he should start, the moment is too big. But if Smith can't move the ball or he is throwing errant passes, we need to do something. The leash needs to be short.

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You could just use Heinicke on 2nd or 3rd and long, that's when Tampa wil pin their ears back and the QB may need to flush the pocket.

 

Why not get creative, what do we have to lose, the pressure is on the Bucs not us.

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I believe, somewhere deep in my heart, that the timing of putting Heinicke in as the starting QB is perfect. Between his legs and field vision, he could be just enough of a curveball for the Bucs for us to beat them. I absolutely believe he'll be more of a threat than what Alex is....no doubt in my mind. 

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1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

I believe, somewhere deep in my heart, that the timing of putting Heinicke in as the starting QB is perfect. Between his legs and field vision, he could be just enough of a curveball for the Bucs for us to beat them. I absolutely believe he'll be more of a threat than what Alex is....no doubt in my mind. 

 

Start Alex, and if/when he proves to be ineffective due to immobility or jsut having a bad day, bring Heinicke in to try and recapture the spark he gave in the Panthers game.

 

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1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

You guys do realize you're setting yourself up for disappointment if Heinicke ****s the bed, right?  

 

I think a lot of the posters here are rational and well-informed.  But this board goes WAY off the rails the minute someone puts up some good production in a very small sample size.  It's a weird place.

I don't think its as much that as it is hope.

I can't speak for everybody but I'm well aware that heinicke could crap out and have a horrible game, as a matter of fact its far more likely than him tearing up the stats and lighting up the scoreboard but with Smith it feels like 100 percent chance we know what we have.

He'll do his checkdowns, maybe he'll put together a few efficient drives, maybe he won't.

Maybe he'll throw a couple picks ( this year would suggest thats very likely) maybe he won't, but we know he'll be completely immobile and his statistics are going to be mostly dreadful and we're going to have to hope for a huge performance from the defense. 

At least with heinicke he shows there's a chance we could put some points on the board and air yards on offense and because we're on house money anyway thats all we want is a chance.

 

And as an added bonus if we do pull off some crazy miracle with heinicke we have a better idea of what we need for the quarterback position next year as opposed to a loss with Alex and heinicke is still a total wildcard for a roster spot next year.

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7 minutes ago, jbird2 said:

 

Start Alex, and if/when he proves to be ineffective due to immobility or jsut having a bad day, bring Heinicke in to try and recapture the spark he gave in the Panthers game.

 

Respectfully disagree, why not start Heinicke and give him a chance to get a feel for the game right away rather than wasting time watching Alex avoid getting hammered. Lets let it fly from the jump....come out really aggressive with downfield throws, designed QB runs, etc....show Tampa things we haven't done that Heinicke can do. We know, and more importantly Tampa knows, exactlly what Alex is and what kind of limited offense we are with Alex. It's time for Riverboat Ron to really roll the dice and attack rather than playing it close to the vest.  Keep Alex in reserve in case we have to use him. 

 

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1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

Respectfully disagree, why not start Heinicke and give him a chance to get a feel for the game right away rather than wasting time watching Alex avoid getting hammered. Lets let it fly from the jump....come out really aggressive with downfield throws, designed QB runs, etc....show Tampa things we haven't done that Heinicke can do. We know, and more importantly Tampa knows, exactlly what Alex is and what kind of limited offense we are with Alex. It's time for Riverboat Ron to really roll the dice and attack rather than playing it close to the vest.  Keep Alex in reserve in case we have to use him. 

 

Alex may start like he did against the Eagles with a drive for a score.....

It is a morale/culture thing. Go with the horse that got you there, and the feel good story.

 

The moment Alex gets hit and limps plug in the mobile sparkplug

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  • LetThePointsSoar changed the title to The Official Heinicke Hive Thread

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