Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[heyholetsgogrant]

37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

#3 at pass pro

 

 

 

I'm guessing good coaching helps? I remember our O-line being mediocre back before Gibbs 2.0 and  joe bugel turned it around.

[wit33]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not sure I like Cam even as a cheap roll of the dice bet let alone 20-25 million a year.     NE from what I saw paid him 1.75 million -- he had a stinky season in a prove it year and we pay him like he killed it?

 

 

 

Last year was a unique situation for Cam in what he got paid, don’t think that’s a good comparison to make, but have always been befuddled how the NFL just gives a starting QB 8-10% of the cap. I would be okay with Cam around 5%, which in my mind is 7-10mil with incentives needed to get to the 10-15 mark or so. 

[Est.1974]

56 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If we sign Cam I will be seriously worried. 

Yeah, I’m not as anti-Cam as most are, but if he’s the best we could do it would be a fairly disappointing outcome in our QB search.

[steve09ru]

I'm sure it's been talked about but I wouldn't mind bringing in Winston next year.  If you look back pre-Arians, he wasn't overdoing it with INTs so I'm curious if learning/running an Arians style offense in 1 year may show him being more reckless/poor decision making than what he's actually capable of

[boston skins fan]

if wilson drops to say drops out of the top 10 trade up to get him.  if not trade back into the 1st for jones.  sit them both for a year behind smith/allen/hieneke (pick 2) and go.

[CTskin]

have any of the pro-cammers watched him play this year... or any of the past 4 years? He’s not a good passer and his football IQ is just not there. If you took away his threat to run he’s dwayne Haskins. id be much more content sporting Kyle Allen on his salary than wasting more than a couple mil on bringing in cam. He’s a big name, big body, but a bad qb. Why spend any money on a bottom tier qb? 
 

ive said it before and I’ll say it again, break the bank on dak if he makes it to FA. top tier qb + top tier defense = success in this league.

 

I’m not a huge fan of stafford, but I wouldn’t mind bringing him over if the price is less than a 1st rounder.

 

couldn’t be happier that we made the playoffs, but if we get wiped by TB then it’s going to be hard to not wish we had the #10 pick and a good chance at drafting a franchise qb.

Edited January 6, 2021 by CTskin

[Skinsinparadise]

50 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Last year was a unique situation for Cam in what he got paid, don’t think that’s a good comparison to make, but have always been befuddled how the NFL just gives a starting QB 8-10% of the cap. I would be okay with Cam around 5%, which in my mind is 7-10mil with incentives needed to get to the 10-15 mark or so. 

 

I know it was unique because he was in a prove it season.  But arguably he didn't prove it.  Hence NE likely moving on.  I liked old Cam when he can throw the ball down the field pre shoulder surgery.   This version where he seems to struggle to throw 10 yard passes doesn't appeal to me.   I'd be only interested if Cam's doctors are convinced that it will take time for Cam to return to form and he just wasn't there yet last season. 

 

I get your fixation with low cap % being the be all and end all.  To an extent I like it too.   But having a Qb that stinks doesn't solve anything no matter how cheap they are. 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, heyholetsgogrant said:

I'm guessing good coaching helps? I remember our O-line being mediocre back before Gibbs 2.0 and  joe bugel turned it around.

 

They also added firepower to it during Gibbs 2 like Randy Thomas, etc.  He replaced Spurrier who wasn't O line friendly with his pass happy fun and gun system.   

 

Callahan is considered by some the best O line coach in the league so i am not sure we've upgraded coaching wise.  The two free agents on the left side of the O line have been surprisingly good albiet Lucas was good in a limited sample previously with the Bears. Scherff was much healthier this season then in recent seasons. 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[JoggingGod]

2 hours ago, httrcirca87 said:

I would love to have Dak on this team. But I don't see a scenario where this happens without Smith retiring. Is it possible for us to keep Darby, Scherff, sign Dak, add a WR and a quality LB like Lavonte David?

Smith needs to retire or get cut regardless of what we do at QB

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[kingdaddy]

5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Yeah, I’m not as anti-Cam as most are, but if he’s the best we could do it would be a fairly disappointing outcome in our QB search.

Signing Cam would be for RR's comfort at the position above all else. He believes in the guy and trusts him. After this season RR is gonna have to make QB stability a priority if you ask me. Cam will want to be here, won't break the bank and RR is comfortable with him. Incentive laiden deal while we keep searching for the future and build the rest of the roster I would be more than fine with. Cam's best days are behind him but he can still lead a team, especially if he has a running game and good talent around him. As I've said over and over again, start wrapping your head around the possibility of Cam coming here very soon in free agency just so RR has something to build around at the QB position. It makes a lot of sense, especially as a stopgap until we develop our future guy. Best part of it all if Cam comes, he won't cost us a pick or player. Keep stacking the roster. 

[ultravin]

Get Fitzpatrick!  Get him cheap!!!

[wit33]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I know it was unique because he was in a prove it season.  But arguably he didn't prove it.  Hence NE likely moving on. 

 

I wonder if they do decide to move on. From afar

 

Quote

 

I liked old Cam when he can throw the ball down the field pre shoulder surgery.   This version where he seems to struggle to throw 10 yard passes doesn't appeal to me.   I'd be only interested if Cam's doctors are convinced that it will take time for Cam to return to form and he just wasn't there yet last season. 
 

Now admittedly, I’m only watching 15 minute highlight cut ups, but there are plenty of passes being made over 10 yards. 
 

This Cam can’t throw the ball down past 10 yards is a false narrative and being shared as truth. 

 

Quote

 

I get your fixation with low cap % being the be all and end all.  To an extent I like it too.   But having a Qb that stinks doesn't solve anything no matter how cheap they are. 

Like you mentioned in a previous post I’m not tied to any one way of doing it, but I do want a strong personality and grown up at the QB spot next year, due to feeling there’s a SB window starting next year. This wouldn’t move me off of wanting to invest in a high draft pick, but have ZERO interest in starting a rookie QB next year. 
 

Cam isn’t coming off a great year and doesn’t have as much potential value for another organization as he does he for obvious reasons.  For example, I wouldn’t support a Cam acquisition if I was a fan of any other team. My position is more that if Ron decides to add him to the group I’d support it. 
 

Also, watching the Turner offense for 16 games I easily can see how Cam could be a great fit. A lot of backfield action, RPOs, ROs, and short pass game. 
 

If we’re venturing into average to above QB play I want that guy to have something elite about him some way and Newton checks the box in regards to what the team instantly becomes as a rush offense. A know elite variable for a season. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by wit33

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

I wonder if they do decide to move on. From afar

 

 

 

Will see.  Some normally reliable reporters have said they will pass on bringing him back.  

 

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/12/14/sad-statistical-rankings-show-just-how-bad-patriots-offense-has-been-in-2020/

BOSTON (CBS) — On Monday morning, Cam Newton made a point of expressing how much he admires and respects Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels. Newton said that he’s appreciative of his opportunity in New England and that McDaniels and everyone else involved with the Patriots remains fully committed to winning.

That is, obviously, nice. And it beats the alternative.

 

Yet despite the strength of the relationship between McDaniels and Newton, the results on the field have been tremendously underwhelming for the Patriots. And that’s putting it as politely as possible.

The raw numbers on the Patriots, with just one game left to be played in Week 14 of the NFL, are grisly.

The Patriots are tied for 27th in points scored. That’s on par with the Eagles and better than only the Jaguars, Broncos, Bengals, Giants and Jets.

The Patriots rank 24th in the NFL in offensive yards, averaging 332.9 per game, and they’re 22nd in yards per play.

They score touchdowns on just 52.3 percent of their trips to the red zone, which is the sixth-worst mark in the NFL. They cash in better than the Bengals, Cowboys, Giants, Falcons and Jets.

Those are the team stats, and they’re obviously an issue for a team with the 11th-ranked defense in terms of yards and seventh in terms of points allowed. With an average of just 14.5 points per game in their seven losses — and an average of just 12 points per game when excluding the 30 points scored in Seattle — it’s not difficult to discover why the Patriots are where they’re at with three weeks to go.

And when looking at some individual rankings in the NFL, the picture darkens even more.

Individually, Cam Newton ranks 25th in passing yards, 19th in yards per attempt, and 35th in touchdown passes. He’s also tied for throwing the eighth-most interceptions, and he ranks 31st in passer rating — better than only Daniel Jones, Carson Wentz, and Sam Darnold. He’s 2,036 yards and 34 touchdowns off the league lead.

 

12 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

This Cam can’t throw the ball down past 10 yards is a false narrative and being shared as truth. 

 

 

As to false stuff.  Your post is a false representation of my point.   I said struggled.  I didn't say can't.  You can see at times he has to put every ounce of his body to throw even short throws, it's almost a painful watch.  Yes on occasion he can get the ball down the field.  But my point is you can see post shoulder surgery he isn't the same dude.  As I said if a doctor said hey that's common, wait to year 2 of recovery, then maybe I'd entertain it.

 

12 hours ago, wit33 said:

Like you mentioned in a previous post I’m not tied to any one way of doing it, but I do want a strong personality and grown up at the QB spot next year, due to feeling there’s a SB window starting next year. This wouldn’t move me off of wanting to invest in a high draft pick, but have ZERO interest in starting a rookie QB next year. 
 

Cam isn’t coming off a great year and doesn’t have as much potential value for another organization as he does he for obvious reasons.  For example, I wouldn’t support a Cam acquisition if I was a fan of any other team. My position is more that if Ron decides to add him to the group I’d support it. 

 

I am ok with most of this point.  As for rookie, depends on who it is but I don't think we'd be in position to take Zach Wilson or Justin Fields.  Cam is for sure a strong personality.  If Rivera is in favor of him, I'd be ok with it too.  He and the doctors on the team would know better than we would.  But the debate is what we think of Cam.  I've watched 4 games of Cam this season.  Typically, I like Cam more than most on the board.  But that Cam didn't look to me like the old one, not even close.  He looked basically like a bad QB but could run.  I'd like to get a dude who could run but would want a QB who is at least average as a passer.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

12 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Signing Cam would be for RR's comfort at the position above all else. He believes in the guy and trusts him. After this season RR is gonna have to make QB stability a priority if you ask me. Cam will want to be here, won't break the bank and RR is comfortable with him. Incentive laiden deal while we keep searching for the future and build the rest of the roster I would be more than fine with. Cam's best days are behind him but he can still lead a team, especially if he has a running game and good talent around him. As I've said over and over again, start wrapping your head around the possibility of Cam coming here very soon in free agency just so RR has something to build around at the QB position. It makes a lot of sense, especially as a stopgap until we develop our future guy. Best part of it all if Cam comes, he won't cost us a pick or player. Keep stacking the roster. 

Get used to being really frustrated with the passing game to lengths you can’t imagine.

 

8 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

I wonder if they do decide to move on. From afar

 

Now admittedly, I’m only watching 15 minute highlight cut ups, but there are plenty of passes being made over 10 yards. 
 

This Cam can’t throw the ball down past 10 yards is a false narrative and being shared as truth. 

 

Like you mentioned in a previous post I’m not tied to any one way of doing it, but I do want a strong personality and grown up at the QB spot next year, due to feeling there’s a SB window starting next year. This wouldn’t move me off of wanting to invest in a high draft pick, but have ZERO interest in starting a rookie QB next year. 
 

Cam isn’t coming off a great year and doesn’t have as much potential value for another organization as he does he for obvious reasons.  For example, I wouldn’t support a Cam acquisition if I was a fan of any other team. My position is more that if Ron decides to add him to the group I’d support it. 
 

Also, watching the Turner offense for 16 games I easily can see how Cam could be a great fit. A lot of backfield action, RPOs, ROs, and short pass game. 
 

If we’re venturing into average to above QB play I want that guy to have something elite about him some way and Newton checks the box in regards to what the team instantly becomes as a rush offense. A know elite variable for a season. 

 

Cam’s arm and accuracy are not at all what they were earlier in his career. And that was never his strong suit (accuracy, anyways). He doesn’t place the ball well and one hops or over throws receivers on a routine basis. While you’re technically correct that the ball travels more than 10 yards and saying he can’t throw that far is a fallacy, that’s a missing the forest through the trees moment. 
 

People are complaining about Smith’s throws... wait until you see Cam’s. The one positive for Cam is he can run. And he can run in power situations. So he adds an element there. But his passing has been worse than Smith and Haskins. 
 

Cam’s body is beat... dude has taken a massive beating over his career. He started off the year very well. And his arm and accuracy looked great. And then he fell totally off a cliff. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm not interested in Cam for a year or two.  It doesn't solve the problem long term.  Even if we need a stopgap, Cam's not the guy.  

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

This is a good point below.  That team had a young defense.  An aging QB with high intangibles but didn't put up a lot of yards.  1 good WR, a TE, a RB.  Decent O line.  Good defense.

 

They never figured out QB though down the road and that season oddly ended up the high watermark of the Dan era at least as for judging them by playoff wins, the peak being a whopping 1 playoff win.  But at the time, it didn't feel like the peak but more was to come. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/01/07/sean-taylor-clinton-portis-washington-playoffs-tampa-bay/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wp_redskins

Washington’s last playoff win came 15 years ago. That felt like a beginning, too.

They have churned through six head coaches and 15 starting quarterbacks. Four presidential elections have come and gone. Since the start of the 2006 season, Tom Brady has won 20 playoff games as a starting quarterback. In that same time frame, the opponent Brady faces Saturday night has won zero.

 

Welcome to the arid wasteland that has been the Washington Football Team’s 21st century postseason history.

“Man, that is surprising,” said Santana Moss, who spent 10 of his 14 NFL seasons as a receiver on this team in this town. “Look, you don’t understand what it has been [like] for us to be players with this organization with all these ups and downs. Y’all don’t even know. I’m talking about grinding it out. All those games I played in for those 10 years, we only had three playoff appearances and won one game.”

 

That one game was 15 years ago Thursday, and it happened to be against the same opponent Washington will host Saturday night — albeit in Tampa Bay, rather than at FedEx Field this week. The coach was Joe Gibbs. The starting quarterback was Mark Brunell. The head personnel man was Vinny Cerrato. The right outside linebacker was LaVar Arrington. The free safety was Sean Taylor, rest his soul.

And the running back was Clinton Portis.

“It felt like a beginning,” Portis said by phone this week. “Just the camaraderie that we had, I think that was our closest team, that 2005 team. Just the bond we had amongst each other, guys holding each other accountable, guys overachieving, guys leaving it all on the field.

 

“That was our DNA: Play hard, play tough, play physical. You know it’s going to be a Joe Gibbs game. That’s what you’re starting to see now with this team.”

 

Before making any comparisons between this team and that one — which we’ll get to — it’s useful to transport yourself back in time to that 2005 season. Though Daniel Snyder was in just his seventh season as the franchise’s owner, he was already on his fifth coach. But the feeling in Ashburn and around town was that Gibbs — in his second season of his second tenure, with the franchise’s three Super Bowl titles to his credit — had a combination of personality and credibility that could keep the owner at bay in a way no one before or since could.

AD

 

Much like this 2020 version, though, that team didn’t sail into the playoffs. An overtime loss to San Diego to close November left Washington 5-6, on the outside of the NFC race. But to hear Moss and Portis tell it, even at that low point, that group had three important qualities: a belief, an identity, and a bond.

 

“That team was so tight,” Moss said by phone. “Everybody bonded. You’re going to always have those locker rooms where certain groups don’t hang around with each other. They do what they do. You can’t make everybody be friends. You have work associates, but maybe you don’t hang out outside work. That’s fine.

“But our locker room, I remember, even if I didn’t kick it with the O-linemen, they still offered me a beer. Sometimes, you have those cliques. That year, everyone clicked.”

 

 

...“That game was chippy the entire time,” Portis said. “I was looking forward to it.”

Washington, at that point, could look forward to it. It had a simple formula offensively: run Portis relentlessly, find Moss on screens and outs, and use tight end Chris Cooley on security curls. On defense, a young Taylor had taken over for Arrington as the leader, and players such as linebackers Marcus Washington and Lemar Marshall had career years. What the players on both sides had in common: attitude and toughness.

 

“Coach Gibbs used to tell us: ‘What I want from you guys is effort,’” Moss said. “And he almost hated to say this, but he’d say, ‘If we don’t’ win, you make sure our opponent felt it. They better be beat up the next day.’ He used to look in the newspaper the next day and see how many guys they had in the training room.”

 

...Brunell completed just 7 of 15 passes for 41 yards, and Washington gained only 120 on the day. But the defense held the Bucs to just 243 yards, sacked quarterback Chris Simms three times and forced three turnovers.

 

Final: Washington 17, Tampa Bay 10.

Portis sees second-year receiver Terry McLaurin as this year’s Moss, suddenly reliable tight end Logan Thomas as this year’s Cooley, and rookie running back Antonio Gibson as this year’s version of himself. On defense, rookie end Chase Young is the emotional leader, just as Taylor, in just his second season, was for the 2005 group. Plus, he sees the defense on the sideline encouraging the offense and vice versa — just like it was back then.

 

 

“It’s just the craziness about that season as a whole,” Moss said. “We never felt like we didn’t have a chance. When you think back now, that’s what I appreciate about the Washington team this year. They always felt like there was an opportunity to win — even if no one else did.”

“You know what it was?” Portis said. “I think we were counted out — just like this team was counted out.”

Fifteen years, zero playoff wins. Only seven other NFL teams can say the same, though Tampa Bay, Cleveland and Buffalo all have opportunities to end their skids this weekend.

As does Washington. Its most recent playoff win came a couple of football generations ago. The opportunities have been infrequent, but there are parallels between the team that last won a postseason game and the team that could win one Saturday. They are teams with an identity and a toughness, just hoping this is the beginning of something more.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

Schefter's thinking of Cam Newton coming to the WFT is hogwash to me.  He could have been here last year.  RR, I think has moved on as has Scott Turner.  I think when we traded our 5th last year for Allen he was to be the backup and now with Haskin's gone the starter as Smith probably hangs it up after this year.  TH would be a wise option as backup since he knows the system.  I have to believe a QB in drafted in the 1st or 2nd round in this year's draft.  Just my guess.  Again, I wouldn't be surprised to see Kyle Smith, if still present with the team and a hunch, is also named GM after the season is over wants Mac Jones at our future long time starter.

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I'm not interested in Cam for a year or two.  It doesn't solve the problem long term.  Even if we need a stopgap, Cam's not the guy.  

 

 

 

Most of us are not interested in Cam Newton coming here, but I would take Cam here if it stabilized the entire roster and kept this thing moving forward. Only on the cheap though, no way I'd pay Cam more than 12 mil a season and that would be the max after he earned incentives. Regardless of how any of us feel, RR is ultimately the guy who will decide if Cam can help us next year and possibly beyond. If we lose Alex, Cam would be the vet presence for RR to lean on while we groom someone else like Allen or a rookie.

[Warhead36]

The difference is that 05 team was built largely on expensive FA vets we had signed the past couple offseasons. The only real young homegrown guys were Cooley and Samuels on offense(though Samuels was already in year 6 by then)and Taylor and Rogers on defense.

 

This team has a lot more upside, but of course has to get the QB position down.

[KDawg]

22 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Most of us are not interested in Cam Newton coming here, but I would take Cam here if it stabilized the entire roster and kept this thing moving forward. Only on the cheap though, no way I'd pay Cam more than 12 mil a season and that would be the max after he earned incentives. Regardless of how any of us feel, RR is ultimately the guy who will decide if Cam can help us next year and possibly beyond. If we lose Alex, Cam would be the vet presence for RR to lean on while we groom someone else like Allen or a rookie.

What makes you think Cam stabilizes the franchise more than, say, Kyle Allen for the time being?

[Spaceman Spiff]

37 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Most of us are not interested in Cam Newton coming here, but I would take Cam here if it stabilized the entire roster and kept this thing moving forward. Only on the cheap though, no way I'd pay Cam more than 12 mil a season and that would be the max after he earned incentives. Regardless of how any of us feel, RR is ultimately the guy who will decide if Cam can help us next year and possibly beyond. If we lose Alex, Cam would be the vet presence for RR to lean on while we groom someone else like Allen or a rookie.

 

That's the thing, I don't see how Cam keeps this thing moving forward.  I just see it as more of the same of what we've got this year.

 

I'm actually surprised, he completed 65.8 percent of his passes this year.  But he threw more picks than touchdowns.  He still might be able to run effectively a bit.

 

I'd be floored if he got 12 million a season or anywhere close to that next year, especially after making, IIRC, 1.75 million this year.  If we got him for 1.75 million or something in that range, that's the only way it'd be somewhat appealing.

 

 

[Blanka]

 

[Anselmheifer]

10 minutes ago, Blanka said:

 

Three 1sts. And Ioannidis. Automatic SB contenders. 

[Bonez3]

Get Watson Please, by all means necessary