Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Commander_N_Chief]

Just now, KDawg said:

I just don’t see what Darnold offers that Kyle Allen doesn’t and he’s already here, familiar and only cost a 5th.

 

Pass.

For me it's really all about potential and looking at the team he came from.  That whole Jets team was abysmal, I'm not giving anything more than a 5th this year for Darnold.  If the Jets balk then you walk away.

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

I was ‘pleased’ with my lunch, but if I’d had the option of something better....

 

Time will tell on this one.

6 minutes ago, thelongestbreath said:

For me it's really all about potential and looking at the team he came from.  That whole Jets team was abysmal, I'm not giving anything more than a 5th this year for Darnold.  If the Jets balk then you walk away.

Darnold is basically a one year rental, then you have to seriously pay up.

6 minutes ago, thelongestbreath said:

Edited January 5, 2021 by UK SKINS FAN 74

[Commander_N_Chief]

11 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

 

Time will tell on this one.

Darnold is basically a one year rental, then you have to seriously pay up.

 

I may be mistaken but isn't it 2 years if you pick up his rookie option?  Worst case you didn't give up much to get him.  Best case he plays like he's worth the money and you pay him, by then you wont have Alex's contract on the books either.

[CapsSkins]

Factoring in age, performance, cap hit, risk, and cost - and pending availability - is there a better QB fit for this team than Derek Carr? Younger guy, can move, puts up good stats, beat Mahomes almost twice this year, may be on the outs w/ Gruden, wouldn't cost a 1st... if he's available then who says no? 

[PartyPosse]

2 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Factoring in age, performance, cap hit, risk, and cost - and pending availability - is there a better QB fit for this team than Derek Carr? Younger guy, can move, puts up good stats, beat Mahomes almost twice this year, may be on the outs w/ Gruden, wouldn't cost a 1st... if he's available then who says no? 

I don’t love him but I guess it boils down to what it costs. I wouldn’t give anything more than one of our thirds.

[Anselmheifer]

34 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Factoring in age, performance, cap hit, risk, and cost - and pending availability - is there a better QB fit for this team than Derek Carr? Younger guy, can move, puts up good stats, beat Mahomes almost twice this year, may be on the outs w/ Gruden, wouldn't cost a 1st... if he's available then who says no? 

He’s be a very good fit if the cost isn’t too high. Certainly is better than Kyle Allen. Worth a 2nd maybe? A 2nd and change? 
 

Derek Carr, Allen Robinson and Najee Harris would be a monumental upgrade to the offense and really make us dangerous. 

[CapsSkins]

Unfortunately I don't see the Raiders moving Carr. Don't think they have a better alternative readily available and he's cheap: $22M cap hit next year.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[CobraCommander]

I just want a smart QB with a strong arm and two legs. Is that so much to ask for?

[PartyPosse]

What would you guys give up for Watson?

[CapsSkins]

12 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

What would you guys give up for Watson?

 

There is absolutely zero reason Houston would trade Watson.

[PartyPosse]

13 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

There is absolutely zero reason Houston would trade Watson.

Not saying they would, however this team may be in a rebuild soon. They have very little talent outside of Watson and they’re paying him a LOT of money to go out there, throw for near 5,000 yards en route to the third worst record in football.

[HoggLife]

35 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

What would you guys give up for Watson?

Three 1st round picks. But like others gave said they won't trade him. He would automatically turn us into a Super Bowl contender for the next 3-5 years. 

[CapsSkins]

9 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Not saying they would, however this team may be in a rebuild soon. They have very little talent outside of Watson and they’re paying him a LOT of money to go out there, throw for near 5,000 yards en route to the third worst record in football.

 

Bill O'Brien has ****ed that team so badly. $20M over the cap AND no 1st or 2nd round picks. But they just hired Nick Caserio as GM and if you're fixing that team, you don't do it by losing a top 10 QB who's only 25 years old. You build that O around Watson and Tunsil.

[Skin'emAlive]

Matt Ryan seems the most ideal trade to me. Gives us the ability to win now while in the rookie contract years of Sweat/Young, and leaves us with ability to draft and stash ( like Green Bay) if a guy like Mac Jones or Trey Lance fall. But we shouldn’t have to give up that much for a 35 year old vet with 40per on the books. First off, not many teams can afford that. We would be doing ATL a favor by getting them out of cap hell and leaving them with an elite wr core plus a TE in the wings for their young qb prospect. 
 

I think this offer should be enough. 

 

2021 2nd

2022 4th 

 

 

[PartyPosse]

12 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Bill O'Brien has ****ed that team so badly. $20M over the cap AND no 1st or 2nd round picks. But they just hired Nick Caserio as GM and if you're fixing that team, you don't do it by losing a top 10 QB who's only 25 years old. You build that O around Watson and Tunsil.

I’m looking at that roster and they have absolutely squat. I guess Cunningham and Blackock but it’s embarrassing how awful their depth is.

[CapsSkins]

3 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Matt Ryan seems the most ideal trade to me. Gives us the ability to win now while in the rookie contract years of Sweat/Young, and leaves us with ability to draft and stash ( like Green Bay) if a guy like Mac Jones or Trey Lance fall. But we shouldn’t have to give up that much for a 35 year old vet with 40per on the books. First off, not many teams can afford that. We would be doing ATL a favor by getting them out of cap hell and leaving them with an elite wr core plus a TE in the wings for their young qb prospect. 
 

I think this offer should be enough. 

 

2021 2nd

2022 4th 

 

 

 

A pre-6/1 trade means ATL still gets hit w/ a $44.4M dead cap charge. And a post 6/1 trade means $18M dead cap this year and $26.5M dead cap next year. Just awful for the Falcons even if they move him. 

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

From the article, I don't like any of them, I'd do the Carr deal.  But reality is reality.  I think Allen, TH and a drafted QB are our 3 QBs going into 2021.

[Skin'emAlive]

6 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

A pre-6/1 trade means ATL still gets hit w/ a $44.4M dead cap charge. And a post 6/1 trade means $18M dead cap this year and $26.5M dead cap next year. Just awful for the Falcons even if they move him. 

Would the $44m dead cap hit exist only in the 2021 season where they would be tanking anyways? 

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Would the $44m dead cap hit exist only in the 2021 season where they would be tanking anyways? 

 

Correct, although as of now they're $32M above the cap. LOL

 

Even if the cap moves from 175 to 195, that's still $12M over and the dead cap would be $4M over the current $40M cap hit. So it would be $16M + the cap hit of the backup QB that they would be over, and then they'd need to clear a bunch of space (which they'll need to do anyway).

[CommanderInTheRye]

18 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

A pre-6/1 trade means ATL still gets hit w/ a $44.4M dead cap charge. And a post 6/1 trade means $18M dead cap this year and $26.5M dead cap next year. Just awful for the Falcons even if they move him. 

 

All true.

 

However, I recently learned while watching a talking head sports show that this is not necessarily the impediment to a trade that I thought it was.

 

There is a legal maneuver or gentleman’s agreement which requires trust and therefore some risk between all three parties (player, present team, and future team) which can make such a trade practical for all concerned.

 

This is the gentleman’s arrangement which allows for the trading of a player whose cap hit would otherwise preclude a trade:

 

1. The player voluntarily writes a check to his current team for the amount of bonus money he has been paid. Say $20 million dollars. This amount then comes off of his future cap hit. It is allowed by the CBA but the player is taking a risk by doing this if either his old team or the team he later gets traded to reneges on the deal.

2. The current team then trades the player to his new team.

3. The new team then signs the player to a restructured contract which includes a signing bonus equal to or greater than what the player paid the team in step 1. above.

 

*This maneuver was mentioned specifically as a way that Carson Wentz could be traded by Philadelphia to another team without destroying their cap.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by TrancesWithWolves

[CapsSkins]

4 minutes ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

All true.

 

However, I recently learned while watching a talking head sports show that this is not necessarily the impediment to a trade that I thought it was.

 

There is a legal maneuver or gentleman’s agreement which requires trust and therefore some risk between all three parties (player, present team, and future team) which can make such a trade practical for all concerned.

 

This is the gentleman’s arrangement which allows for the trading of a player whose cap hit would otherwise preclude a trade:

 

1. The player writes a check to his current team for the amount of bonus money he has been paid. Say $20 million dollars. This amount then comes off of his future cap hit. It is allowed by the CBA but the player is taking a risk by doing this if the team reneges on the deal.

2. The current team then trades the player to his new team.

3. The new team then signs the player to a restructured contract which includes a signing bonus equal to or greater than what the player paid the team in step 1. above.

 

*This maneuver was mentioned specifically as a way that Carson Wentz could be traded by Philadelphia to another team without destroying their cap.

 

Whoa is this real? That's crazy.

 

I gotta say, as a player, I would never ever ever do this LOL. No matter how desperate I was to change teams... that's just soooooo risky. 

[Skin'emAlive]

Well isn’t this exactly what Jax did this past offseason? They were in cap hell. Now they have the most cap space in the league, a Lawrence lottery pick, an additional 1st and 4th from LA, 2nd from Min, 5th from CLE, and the FO is freed up. 

[mistertim]

I'm "meh" on Matt Ryan. He's a good QB but I don't think he's great and he'll be 36 this coming season so I doubt we get more than a couple years out of him. He's certainly above any guys who will likely be available via FA, but he's lower on the list of guys I'd trade for. I suppose I'd be ok with a 2nd but not enthusiastic about it.

[CommanderInTheRye]

Just now, CapsSkins said:

 

Whoa is this real? That's crazy.

 

I gotta say, as a player, I would never ever ever do this LOL. No matter how desperate I was to change teams... that's just soooooo risky. 

 

 

It is true. I think I saw it mentioned on Good Morning Football, Get Up or First Things First about a week ago.

 

Definitely risky but if anyone reneged they would become a pariah. No one would ever trust there word again but still there is a risk.