Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Ya, I’m not in love with the idea but I like the value for this particular franchise if that’s the direction Ron chose to go. Also, there’s zero risk to a move like this, Cam would come even if it’s an open competition with Kyle Allen and first round QB. I just want talent in the room and a guy next year who can provide some known variables to the team next season, due to feeling they will be ready to compete for a SB. 

 

I don't love any of the FA options.  If I had to run with one it would be Fitzpatrick.  If we wanted a mobile QB, I think Tyrod Taylor is in the same conversation as Cam.  And before someone jumps on me, its not that I like Taylor as a top option. I don't.   I'd take Cam over him in his heyday but Cam seems to be breaking down.   Both players when they start are 500 yard plus rushers typically.  I wonder if Taylor though is less banged up.  

Edited January 4, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[rumplestilskin]

11 minutes ago, Fred Jones said:

I don't think that mattered.  Cam was available for a while.  Ron went out and got another Carolina QB instead.  Cam ended up signing a league minimum contract (plus incentives) with NE.

I think your wrong. Cam originally wanted big money but he never got it because he isnt worth it. Furthermore signing Cam would have been perceived as a direct threat to our first round pick. Signing Kyle was  Ron's way of adding depth and potential without completely writing off Dwayne. It was just too early to tell what he had in Dwayne. Also Cam had injury issues.

Edited January 4, 2021 by rumplestilskin

[kingdaddy]

Just now, rumplestilskin said:

I think your wrong. Cam originally wanted big money but he never got it because he isnt worth it. Furthermore signing Cam would have been perceived as a direct threat to our first round pick. Signing Kyle was a Ron's way of adding depth and potential without completely writing off Dwayne. It was just too early to tell what he had in Dwayne.

I have no doubt in my mind that Cam is going to be revisited as a free agent signing by this coaching staff. Regardless of what any of us think, Cam would provide QB stability and give the team a chance to win each week. He knows the offense and is a pro QB, declining skills or not. QB stability has to be at the top of the offseason list, get one in free agency and then look hard in the draft for the future franchise QB. I also think Cam would come cheap....bottom line, if RR thinks Cam can still play and would fit into the culture here, Cam is gonna be a legit option to consider. Just my opinion, not my preference.

[wit33]

52 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't love any of the FA options.  If I had to run with one it would be Fitzpatrick.  If we wanted a mobile QB, I think Tyrod Taylor is in the same conversation as Cam.  And before someone jumps on me, its not that I like Taylor as a top option. I don't.   I'd take Cam over him in his heyday but Cam seems to be breaking down.   Both players when they start are 500 yard plus rushers typically.  I wonder if Taylor though is less banged up.  

Fitzpatrick would be okay, feel he has a clear ceiling and is horrible with TOs, even still as an older QB. 
 

Newton provides a critical known variable and that would be a dynamic run game and red zone offense. Wouldn’t hate Taylor as an option, well liked dude with some experience, but like Newton much more. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by wit33

[Simmsy]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't love any of the FA options.  If I had to run with one it would be Fitzpatrick.  If we wanted a mobile QB, I think Tyrod Taylor is in the same conversation as Cam.  And before someone jumps on me, its not that I like Taylor as a top option. I don't.   I'd take Cam over him in his heyday but Cam seems to be breaking down.   Both players when they start are 500 yard plus rushers typically.  I wonder if Taylor though is less banged up.  

I like the idea of picking up Taylor if we have room for him. I'd rather have a QB that has talent and something to prove (he's never really had his chance to shine), than Cam who is trying to be what he used to be. I'm tired of picking up these old, used up QBs...no matter how cheap they come.

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Fitzpatrick would be okay, feel he has a clear ceiling and is horrible with TOs, even still as an older QB. 
 

Newton provides a critical known variable and that would be a dynamic run game and red zone offense. Wouldn’t hate Taylor as an option, we’ll liked dude was some experience, but Newton much more for me. 

 

I only watched a few of Cam's games this season.  Maybe I watched the wrong ones because in those games he looked like a shadow of his old self.  Some really abysmal performances. 

[Est.1974]

Miami would be mad to let Fitz away at the moment. They should offer over the top money to retain him. Unless they plan on going QB at #3.

 

I’ve long advocated Smith or a similar natured placeholder for 2021, backed up by Allen. But I think the bar has been raised. I predict ‘blockbuster’ type move in either FA, or less so the draft, to get our new guy. 
 

The D only needs a stud LB and a couple of DB retentions to remain outstanding next season.

 

With the draft capital and cap space, damn I think a major move at QB is coming now.

 

[HigSkin]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I only watched a few of Cam's games this season.  Maybe I watched the wrong ones because in those games he looked like a shadow of his old self.  Some really abysmal performances. 

 

[wit33]

24 minutes ago, Simmsy said:

I like the idea of picking up Taylor if we have room for him. I'd rather have a QB that has talent and something to prove (he's never really had his chance to shine), than Cam who is trying to be what he used to be. I'm tired of picking up these old, used up QBs...no matter how cheap they come.

There is a stark difference between paying and trading for older QBs than getting them on the cheap. Independent events of the past shouldn’t be a deciding factor for the future. Sure, learn from them, but avoid reachIng conclusions, IMO.

[CommanderInTheRye]

3 hours ago, wit33 said:

I know it won’t be the most well received, but I’m all in on Newton replacing Smiths...

 

 

On Reddit that would be a perfect post for r/unpopularopinions.

 

Can’t say I agree with any of this but I respect the hell out of you for strapping on your codpiece manning up and standing your ground, consequences be damned.

[wit33]

1 minute ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

 

On Reddit that would be a perfect post for r/unpopularopinions.

 

Can’t say I agree with any of this but I respect the hell out of you for strapping on your codpiece manning up and standing your ground, consequences be damned.

As a replacement to the Smith role. I’d still be open to having Allen compete with Newton and a 1st round draft pick. I want the team to invest heavily and create competitive CHEAP QB room while still positioning self to compete for a SB next year. 
 

Full disclosure, I don’t love Newton, but could get behind it and see some value of Ron were to choose to do so. 

[actorguy1]

Trying to find  a 'Goldilocks ' solution. Mid tier starter ($15-$20 million a year) that is either FA or costs 3rd rounder or less to trade for combined with 2nd or 3rd round rookie and Alex retired/released/restructured.  I don't just want a "window ", I want a perennial winning culture. 

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't love any of the FA options.  If I had to run with one it would be Fitzpatrick.  If we wanted a mobile QB, I think Tyrod Taylor is in the same conversation as Cam.  And before someone jumps on me, its not that I like Taylor as a top option. I don't.   I'd take Cam over him in his heyday but Cam seems to be breaking down.   Both players when they start are 500 yard plus rushers typically.  I wonder if Taylor though is less banged up.  

Neither Cam, Winston or Fitzmagic interest me that much. I too think Taylor could be a healthier and possibly cheaper option and give similar benefits. The same reason I don't mind Brissett

 

I just question who the other QB's would be on the roster with your thoughts. I do feel Allen would be here. Heinke is eh. Or are you thinking a Taylor and 2nd or 3rd round QB?

[Est.1974]

4 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Neither Cam, Winston or Fitzmagic interest me that much. I too think Taylor could be a healthier and possibly cheaper option and give similar benefits. The same reason I don't mind Brissett

 

I just question who the other QB's would be on the roster with your thoughts. I do feel Allen would be here. Heinke is eh. Or are you thinking a Taylor and 2nd or 3rd round QB?

I would say Brissett is the ‘game manager’ option ‘a’ available.

[Burgold]

Dan Snyder needs to be on the phone with Oscar Goldman right now about Alex. A quick visit with Rudy will solve our problems.

 

(Really dated references)

[Rogue Jedi]

 

Stick with Heinicke for another year and draft an un-polished rookie with high upside like Desmond Ridder in the low-mid rounds.

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Rogue Jedi

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

18 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Neither Cam, Winston or Fitzmagic interest me that much. I too think Taylor could be a healthier and possibly cheaper option and give similar benefits. The same reason I don't mind Brissett

 

I just question who the other QB's would be on the roster with your thoughts. I do feel Allen would be here. Heinke is eh. Or are you thinking a Taylor and 2nd or 3rd round QB?

 

Brissett isn't on par mobility wise as Taylor.  So I'd go Taylor. 

 

I'd keep Kyle Allen, maybe Heinicke as #2, #3 options.  But I'd hope to shoot higher than the FA options we got currently. 

[Number 44]

4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

As one of his biggest fans, it's time for him to retire as a winning QB with the greatest comeback story in league history.

They really should rename the Comeback Player of the Year Award to the Alex Smith Comeback Player of the Year Award.

[Thinking Skins]

44 minutes ago, Rogue Jedi said:

 

Stick with Heinicke for another year and draft an un-polished rookie with high upside like Desmond Ridder in the low-mid rounds.

 

At this point my main question is whether we would go with 2 QBs or 3. If we go with 3 as we did this year, I'd think that we have an in-camp battle between Allen and Heinicke with a young guy (ala Nate Sudfield a few years ago) to learn the ropes. 

 

I think this team is too close to something special to risk it on a first round QB (even somebody as tauted as the top 4 like Wilson or Fields or Lance). Look at what Tua/Wentz/Darnold/Tribusky/Winston/Mariotta etc. Those are top tier guys who busted or at least haven't lived up to the hype. Lawrence we're pretty certain will have a great career, but will it be a Burrow and Herbert rookie season? or a Tua and Hurts rookie season? And that goes for all these QBs. 

 

I think this year is giving us some insight into Turner's philosophy. Notice he went for Allen as his primary backup (even more than Smith). But then he liked Smith more than anybody else because he had experience with him and knew him. Then we look at when these two were injured who did he pick as a backup? The guy that was cut in Carolina. Given, at that time there weren't many options available but he didn't do what Gruden did in 2018 and sign the out of football old vets who couldn't do anything. 

 

And If we do go this route, I wonder about how much competition there will be for a guy like Heinicke. Has he now proven himself as a guy who can be a backup? I'm scared of this route because there are other guys who I believed in (Nick Mullins, CJ Beathard, AJ McCarron, etc) who never really lived up to the hype or guys like Ryan Finley or Mason Rudolph or Brett Rypien who I thought would be value picks that could be potential game managers at QB, but these guys all make a lot of mistakes and that is not what we need right now. So I wonder if we will have that same problem with Allen and Heinicke.

 

Allen really reminds me of Colt McCoy and the more I think about it, Heinicke reminds me of Josh Johnson. I don't know why other than the hype he received for playing meh those last 3 games and just being better than Sanchez. Will Heinicke be better than this? I hope so. 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd keep Kyle Allen, maybe Heinicke as #2, #3 options.

Likewise, assuming we can get a true #1 in free agency. Options to get that instant starter via the draft look difficult. 

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Brissett isn't on par mobility wise as Taylor.  So I'd go Taylor. 

 

I'd keep Kyle Allen, maybe Heinicke as #2, #3 options.  But I'd hope to shoot higher than the FA options we got currently. 

Very fair! I like Brissett equal to Taylor, he is smart and mobile.

I am hoping Heinicke gets mop up time this week to see if he deserves the accolades he receives here because he hasn't done squat other than the game a couple weeks ago.

Do you think a Allen and Taylor or Brissett combo could work if not signed to big contracts? This of course assuming they were unable to get a true big name #1 

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by DWinzit

[BurgundyBooger]

Pick up a vet, then draft Kyle Trask in the third round and let him sit a year. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

 

Do you think a Allen and Taylor or Brissett combo could work if not signed to big contracts? This of course assuming they were unable to get a true big name #1 

 

 

In my opinion to the playoffs yes to the SB no. I think we need an established good QB versus a roll of the dice guy or banking on a reclamation project.

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Likewise, assuming we can get a true #1 in free agency. Options to get that instant starter via the draft look difficult. 

 

Yeah the whole thing looks difficult right now.  We need to get lucky and someone hits the market who is good. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[PartyPosse]

Heyyyy

 

Since Moses is a pretty solid RT and he's a leftie, would you trade your second rounder for Tua?

[Skinsinparadise]

My concern with Tua is long term durability.  I'd guess I might trade a 2nd at this point.  I'd be surprised if Miami puts him on the market but you never know.