Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

Expected FO speak from the new administration.

 

"We like what we have"

"Evaluate all options"

"We will make the smart choice"

 

Nobody was going to come out and saying "Dear God, we have to use every available resource to get SOMETHING at QB!!" or "We have no plans to change the QB position"

keep it close to the vest and don't look frantic

 

We don't know anything more about their perspective now than we did yesterday, and that is how it should be

 

Not exactly, I'd say:

Alex Smith is gone as soon as it doesn't kill our cap. 

 

Smoke Screeen usage reading:

You can't trust anything they said.

 

Non-Smoke Screen usage:

They're looking to make a deal that doesn't rob the team of big chunks of '21 and '22 draft capital.

 

This makes it sound more like they'd include a player with picks to get a deal done so they don't have to use an inordinate amount of picks. 

 

I tend to agree w/your general sentiment (other than on Alex Smith), I don't think we know anything other then Hein and Kyle will be back for sure (assuming they have '21 deals in place), but I do tend to thin that if they're telling the truth, then we're going to get a lesser QB period, and if they're not, than we could be getting practically anything. 

 

My guess is we'll go cheap unless we can trade up into the top 5. 

[86 Snyder]

5 minutes ago, RWJ said:

You interpret it how you will.  I don't get the same vibe as yours and #3 read how it read.  They don't KNOW the plan at QB.  Simple.  

 

Come on man, dont be thick.  Finlay misspoke.  They dont know the RESULT, but of course they know the various plans.  This thread is on page 287, you dont think theyve had all the same discussions already?

[mistertim]

Recording of the presser:

 

 

[KDawg]

Meanwhile... Joey T had 100 years between Pro Bowl appearances. Thanks Reddit for keeping us honest. Wonder if he can suit up. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by KDawg

[RWJ]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

lol, i know you are upset because Kyle Smith is gone.  But i don't think Fiinlay means it as literally as you are taking it.

 

The QB market isn't all under their control.  There are moving parts.  For example lets take Carr.  If they like him as some say they do then they likely will chase him if he hits the market just like they did for Stafford.  But they can't control if he hits the market or not.  They can't control it if the Raiders would accept what they deem is fair market value.  They can't control other bids, etc.

 

They clearly have specific targets.  Keim this morning said so.  But they can't reveal that by NFL rules if these players are under contract elsewhere.  Heck Rivera didn't even want to talk about what he offered for Stafford.  He didn't want to talk about whether Alex is coming back for sure.  He didn't want to say if he wants Cam.  It's not in his best interest to tell the world what he wants to do but also in some cases he can't.  Hurney flat out said that to make trades, you don't want leaks because then other teams won't trust you.

 

But I've been saying for a long time I have zen approach to this.  Deal with what comes.  Have a specific price.  And if you don't get the dude go to the next target.  That's smart IMO.  

SIP, one of the things I respect about you most is you think things through.    All good stuff you posted.  I jump and sometimes get emotional which I did.  This is an important move for our F.O./RR.  Just hoping we get the right QB for our team to be successful.  We have a 2 to 3 year window to win and go somewhere with our D being a very good, great one.  We need a field general and believe it's the most important position to fill along with a WR and TE in FA.  

[KDawg]

Just now, RWJ said:

SIP, one of the things I respect about you most is you think things through.    All good stuff you posted.  I jump and sometimes get emotional which I did.  This is an important move for our F.O./RR.  Just hoping we get the right QB for our team to be successful.  We have a 2 to 3 year window to win and go somewhere with our D being a very good, great one.  We need a field general and believe it's the most important position to fill along with a WR and TE in FA.  

I disagree with the premise we have a 2-3 year window. We have that window if we trade the farm now and pay a ton in cap for a guy and can’t replenish the cupboard. 
 

if we build smart we can have a much longer window.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

If RR bring him back, a lot of fans will be disappointed.  Cam is through.  Over.  It showed last year.  Backup for minimum, sure but we already have that on our team. Starter, there would be a lot of upset fans.  RR could have had him last year and passed.  IF Hurney and Mayhew are tooting the horn for Newton it'd be another reason I was against their hiring.  Sorry, letting off some steam.  

[Blanka]

Man, this thread makes me hope Sam ends up in a optimal spot on his next team. 😂
 

 

 

[Silvernon]

I think it's over with Stafford moved.  

 

They'll roll with Heinicke, Allen, and Smith provided he is healthy. 

 

Lame. 

 

Keeping the draft picks and building the O-line will be nice. 

[Riggo#44]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I disagree with the premise we have a 2-3 year window. We have that window if we trade the farm now and pay a ton in cap for a guy and can’t replenish the cupboard. 
 

if we build smart we can have a much longer window.

 

There is nothing I find more myopic than the idea of a window. The Packers have drafted and developed well, have had a window for 20 years. The Ravens have rotated QBs the last 20 years and are almost always in contention. The idea of a window leads to terrible, short-term solutions.

[Skinsinparadise]

22 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

I am never one to hide my misses lol. You won't see me doing that. I once traded a top 6 dynasty rookie pick for the combo of Corey Coleman, Laquon Treadwell, and Cameron Meredith reasoning (all 3 of them can't miss).

 

I am and have always been a huge Josh Rosen fan, in terms of his upside. But that ship has sailed, he may just be a bust, or he may be a guy who landed in the absolute worst case scenario. 

 

As for the conviction angle, I guess I am ----ty with tone, because it's not so much 100% confidence, it's just total confidence in the process, I believe absolutely in the process. If the process misses, if you can reevaluate it, see if it failed for a reason, good, that's a net positive, you fix a flaw, and if it was good process, and the hit was an outlier (which is mostly McLaurin, but I also think he showed a flaw in the process) than you can take it that way too.

 

 

Sorry I didn't have time to respond to this yesterday.  In short, like you, I've got some killer things right among them McLaurin and Gibson and bombed too like on Doctson and RG3.  We all do.  No harm in that.    It's all cool. 

 

But some of your points are hard to forget because you tend to go very hard on players you loved like Josh Rosen which I recall you wrote tomes about why he was the right QB to get in 2019 and you also tend to go hard to tell other people that their takes are off on the draft thread in particular.  We all do that to an extent but I recall you do it at times with more intensity than most so your takes are hard to forget. 

 

But anyway, good stuff, I always enjoy good discussion.   It should be an interesting off season. 

[wit33]

47 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Darnold is no gunsligner.  He's not a checkdown guy.  But plenty of short passes in the mix.   His YPA this season was similar to his career in general.   Yet, throwing short his completion percentage is under 60% and he has a bad TD/INT ratio.   He had turnover issues in college too.  Part of the rap before the draft was whether he'd conquer this problem in the NFL and the short answer to that has been a loud no.

 

This is IMO is a fair and balanced article on Darnold IMO.  They made the point that you never know he might be a reclamation project but its not trending well and they make the point and I agree with it is that he doesn't really have any trait that is special.  The thing I liked about Darnold before that draft is for a big dude he moves laterally well -- he's a good bootleg type QB.  But otherwise he's not very accurate, he has turnover tendencies (both fumbles and INTs) he has decent arm strength but doesn't have a rocket.  He's a big dude and moves well for a big dude but isn't really fast. 

 

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/nfl/story/2020-12-21/nfl-jets-trevor-lawrence-sam-darnold-usc

 

 

PFF ranked the percentage of passes that QBs threw over 20 yards, Darnold is dead last among the 50 they ranked.  Ironically Trubisky was next to last.  In other words, he wasn't throwing deep that much.   

 

 

Where is the similar splashes of moxie thought coming from? 
 

 

 

My moxie association with Darnold is solely based off his ability to create, extend, and manipulate the pocket, so maybe he hasn’t quite earned the full definition of the word. On second thought, not quite sure Fitzpatrick has lived up to the full definition either lol. 
 

Ya, I don’t have much to stand on and don’t have any pre dispositions about him in college (I watch zero college football), so I’m just basing off a few games and highlights in the NFL. He had a great game against the Washington team 2 years ago that I witnessed, does that count as a splash? I mean, I could stat hunt for other games, but that would be basing my argument off of stats which has nothing to do with my stance. 
 

No way saying it’s a slam dunk type dude, risk would be involved. Admittedly, I’m a sucker for any QB that can create, extend, and manipulate the pocket. 

[JSSkinz]

42 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I know I am being hard but you have to have a Plan A, B, C, D etc..  No excuses.  That should should cause pause for all those thinking about our new analytical talking heads!  Disappointment!!!

So you watched the presser and came away thinking the team doesn't know what their plan A, B, C, and D is?  I think you're misinterpreting JP's tweet.

 

They know what they want to do, they just don't want to share those thoughts with the fans and media, I thought they made that pretty clear about 5 different times throughout the presser.

[carex]

38 minutes ago, RWJ said:

You interpret it how you will.  I don't get the same vibe as yours and #3 read how it read.  They don't KNOW the plan at QB.  Simple.  

 

yes because that plan is based around how other people act and they have no control over that

[JSSkinz]

20 minutes ago, KDawg said:

if we build smart we can have a much longer window.

I agree, the "window" talk is nauseating at this point, it's a fictional window created by the media and its worked people into a frenzy.

 

 

[clskinsfan]

I say we sign Fitzpatrick and only let him start in the second half for games. The guy is incredible in the second half.

 

In all honesty I am in favor of going hard after Prescott. I think Dallas will franchise him again though.

[Rufus T Firefly]

25 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I disagree with the premise we have a 2-3 year window. We have that window if we trade the farm now and pay a ton in cap for a guy and can’t replenish the cupboard. 
 

if we build smart we can have a much longer window.

And it's not only the QB position. I think the organization might spend themselves into a short window (hopefully I'm wrong). 

 

To me Scherff is a really good G. Not really dominant, but top 5. But he misses a lot of time. If they give a guy like that the biggest interior linemen contract in the league, it's not going to be money wisely spent.

The rumor I heard was that they were going to sign Jon Allen to a massive extension, like 17 mil per year. Giving our 4th or 5th best DL that kind of money means we're probably a few years from 40%+ of our cap going to the DLine. 

 

At some point, you make choices. The board seems filled with people saying "gotta keep everybody" and at the same time talking about a 2-3 year window. Yes, that's the kind of trap we're going to be stuck in if we choose to step into it.

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

My moxie association with Darnold is solely based off his ability to create, extend, and manipulate the pocket, so maybe he hasn’t quite earned the full definition of the word. On second thought, not quite sure Fitzpatrick has lived up to the full definition either lol. 
 

Ya, I don’t have much to stand on and don’t have any pre dispositions about him in college (I watch zero college football), so I’m just basing off a few games and highlights in the NFL. He had a great game against the Washington team 2 years ago that I witnessed, does that count as a splash? I mean, I could stat hunt for other games, but that would be basing my argument off of stats which has nothing to do with my stance. 
 

No way saying it’s a slam dunk type dude, risk would be involved. Admittedly, I’m a sucker for any QB that can create, extend, and manipulate the pocket. 

 

OK, yeah because I get the notion that someone who is turnover prone must also be a gunslinger but its not the case with Darnold.  He's not a checkdown guy but he is a throw short guy, his YPA is typically among the lowest in the league and per the PFF stats I put on this thread he ranked dead last in attempt % over 20 yards.  A dude like Fitzpatrick is indeed a gunslinger, Darnold IMO not so much.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I think the 'window' talk is built primarily upon the fact that the strength of our team, the D-line, will eventually need to be paid.

[clskinsfan]

What about Flacco as a one year stopgap if we cant find our guy this year?

Edited February 3, 2021 by clskinsfan

[wit33]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK, yeah because I get the notion that someone who is turnover prone must also be a gunslinger but its not the case with Darnold.  He's not a checkdown guy but he is a throw short guy, his YPA is typically among the lowest in the league and per the PFF stats I put on this thread he ranked dead last in attempt % over 20 yards.  A dude like Fitzpatrick is indeed a gunslinger, Darnold IMO not so much.

 

It would also require us to look at games in Fitzpatricks first 30 games. He didn’t play much his first few years. 

 

A limited spectrum, but the few games I have watched when throwing Ints, it’s him creating and extending and looking to make a play, which I qualify as maybe not a gun slinger, but willing to take a risk/leave it all out there and live with the results. I respect that in a QB. 
 

Would be interested to learn more about his type of Ints. 
 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by wit33

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, RWJ said:

SIP, one of the things I respect about you most is you think things through.    All good stuff you posted.  I jump and sometimes get emotional which I did.  This is an important move for our F.O./RR.  Just hoping we get the right QB for our team to be successful.  We have a 2 to 3 year window to win and go somewhere with our D being a very good, great one.  We need a field general and believe it's the most important position to fill along with a WR and TE in FA.  

 

As to the window debate here that i notice is emerging:

 

A national media guy made the point and Standig which is if they want to take advantage of the cheap D line they'd have a 2 year window to do it.    And i agree with that point specifically.  

 

And I think the odds we can keep Ionnadis, Sweat, Allen, Payne, McLaurin are probably slim.  So if we happen to strike on a QB when all that talent is cheap, it would be a nice set up to go for the kill.

 

But at the same time if we don't, its not the end of the world, its just about accepting that the band will be broken up to a degree.  It happened for example in Seattle with their defense.  Seattle survived it though because they had a QB.  If we likewise find a QB, we will survive not having some of those stars to come along to the party.

[Mooka]

8 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

What about Flacco as a one year stopgap if we cant find our guy this year?

 

We've officially reached rock bottom. 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

We've officially reached rock bottom. 

Must have missed the Darnold and Carr for two ones talk... we’ve already been there

[bakedtater1]

11 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Cousins to SF, Jimmy G back to NE ?

I could see that