Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Andre The Giant]

 

[DefinitelyMaybe]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

A compound ankle fracture with a dislocation isn't "part and parcel" of being a footballer. Do you realize how devastating an injury that is?

 

Ok so now walking on a zero gravity treadmill and doing workouts in a pool where he doesn't have to put any weight on his ankle is "ready for next season"? What are you even talking about? The guy can hardly walk and you're proclaiming him fit as a fiddle and ready to go?

 

As far as losing ability, there's certainly plenty of reason for caution about such an injury and how much it will impact his ability to play football at a high level, especially for a player who relies a lot on the stability of that join when it comes to not only pass dropbacks, but in running.

Of course it is, that’s what you sign up for there’s a good chance you sustain serious injuries such as these on the field of play, heaven knows we’ve had our fair share recently

 

Iv not declared him fit, Iv said he’ll be ready to take part next season, and going off recent reports you can hardly dispute that so don’t twist my words to suit your point, it’s an average look

Trying to make out like his ability as a QB will be severely hindered by an ankle injury is plain daft unless you move up to Alex Smith level developments, plus any deal we would potentially sign him on would be subject to a medical anyway so your point of flapping over his injury really doesn’t hold much weight

 

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, carex said:

I dsagree.   And no we can't because we've tried and we've failed

 

Ok agree to disagree on their value. So if they're both elite DTs, how are you planning on paying them each upwards of $20 million per year (top 3 DT money) while still being able to re-sign Sweat, Ioan, Terry, and eventually Young?

 

The math just breaks down eventually. SF had to let one of their DL go as well when they were stacked with 1st rounders. There's almost no way around it unless we actually pay them a more reasonable contract.

[Riggo#44]

6 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

 

I genuinely do not understand why we would chase after Winston, Fitzpatrick, Dalton, or the other cadre of mediocrity out there. They'd just be more expensive additions for the sake of a more expensive addition--they're not better than what we currently have.

[tmandoug1]

This was GOATS draft profile......

 

Negatives: Poor build. Very skinny and narrow. Ended the '99 season weighing 195 pounds and still looks like a rail at 211. Looks a little frail and lacks great physical stature and strength. Can get pushed down more easily than you'd like. Lacks mobility and ability to avoid the rush. Lacks a really strong arm. Can't drive the ball down the field and does not throw a really tight spiral. System-type player who can get exposed if he must ad-lib and do things on his own.

Summary: Is not what you're looking for in terms of physical stature, strength, arm strength and mobility, but he has the intangibles and production and showed great Griese-like improvement as a senior. Could make it in the right system but will not be for everyone.

 

So maybe Mac Jones would be ok.....granted Brady was picked 199th, Mac Jones may cost a 19th. Maybe Heinicke would pan out......just never know.

 

[justice98]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Neither Payne nor Allen are elite DTs. They're both quality starters, but not studs or guys who defenses have to game plan around. It would suck to lose either of them, but let's not act like they're unreplaceable game wreckers. You can find decent quality interior DL starters in FA or the draft.

 

Now, one area that it might be tough to replace is leadership, and that's mostly Allen. 

 

I can agree with this.  I think we can part with one of them and still be ok.  I think Settle is a better next-man-up than most teams have at DT.

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

3 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

I'd rather get a real solution at QB, not a quick fix panic move. Carr isn't the real answer at QB, so any assets you give up for him are gone. If he's costing multiple 1st or 2nd days picks, I'd rather use those on positions of need and seek a QB elsewhere. Maybe that means having an inferior QB in 2021.

 

Going 10-6, even with Carr, seems fairly optimistic. It could happen, but Carr's only done it once in 8 seasons. And yeah, I get that the Raiders aren't literally the same as this team. But the point is you might go 10-6, then 8-8, then 7-9 and then be "we need a QB" if you trade for Carr. He's not a solution, he's a stop gap. Why would I want to trade for a stop gap? I'm not looking to add 1-2 wins in 2021 over Ryan Fitzpatrick, I'm looking for someone to add 2-3 wins every year for the next decade.

Personally, I think finding a starter is a real solution. I guess that's where our opinions differ, I just don't want to pass up an opportunity in hopes that we land a top tier QB down the road. The likelihood of that happening seems slim to me. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[rumplestilskin]

I'm with the keep Hiney, Allen Camp. I'm really a fan of Fitzmagic as a bridge. Save picks and continue to build the team.

[justice98]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Ok agree to disagree on their value. So if they're both elite DTs, how are you planning on paying them each upwards of $20 million per year (top 3 DT money) while still being able to re-sign Sweat, Ioan, Terry, and eventually Young?

 

The math just breaks down eventually. SF had to let one of their DL go as well when they were stacked with 1st rounders. There's almost no way around it unless we actually pay them a more reasonable contract.

 

I think your $20M number is way too high.  That's first team All-Pro territory. They're not top 3 DTs.  None of them are elite All-Pro types, there's not even a pro bowl amongst the 3 of them.  Now, the idea is they're on the upswing still, but currently they're not Deforest Buckner/Chris Jones/Kenny Clark types who are age comps that recently got big deals.  You could probably get away with $10-15m a year, each.  I think the Eagles, Colts, Bengals, and Steelers have 2 DTs making more than $10m a year.  It's doable.  Without knowing what else they're gonna want to spend money on though.

[heyholetsgogrant]

12 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

I don't see an issue here, we just don't have the high picks for a Watson type. You have to have a plan B.  Just because you WANT Watson doesn't mean you can get him 

[Riggo#44]

7 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

This was GOATS draft profile......

 

Negatives: Poor build. Very skinny and narrow. Ended the '99 season weighing 195 pounds and still looks like a rail at 211. Looks a little frail and lacks great physical stature and strength. Can get pushed down more easily than you'd like. Lacks mobility and ability to avoid the rush. Lacks a really strong arm. Can't drive the ball down the field and does not throw a really tight spiral. System-type player who can get exposed if he must ad-lib and do things on his own.

Summary: Is not what you're looking for in terms of physical stature, strength, arm strength and mobility, but he has the intangibles and production and showed great Griese-like improvement as a senior. Could make it in the right system but will not be for everyone.

 

So maybe Mac Jones would be ok.....granted Brady was picked 199th, Mac Jones may cost a 19th. Maybe Heinicke would pan out......just never know.

 

 

Am I the only one that is overly tired of "but...but...Tom Brady!" references? He is one of the greatest aberrations in history...and not just sports. How many other late-QBs with this profile failed to even take a pre-season snap in the NFL?

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, DefinitelyMaybe said:

Of course it is, that’s what you sign up for there’s a good chance you sustain serious injuries such as these on the field of play, heaven knows we’ve had our fair share recently

 

Iv not declared him fit, Iv said he’ll be ready to take part next season, and going off recent reports you can hardly dispute that so don’t twist my words to suit your point, it’s an average look

Trying to make out like his ability as a QB will be severely hindered by an ankle injury is plain daft unless you move up to Alex Smith level developments, plus any deal we would potentially sign him on would be subject to a medical anyway so your point of flapping over his injury really doesn’t hold much weight

 

 

What I'm disputing is your characterization that him barely being able to walk and doing zero G treadmill / pool work somehow means he'll be ready to go for this coming season. All it means is that his rehab his progressing. He hasn't done anything even close to football related with that ankle, and likely won't for another couple of months. By then we're at FA.

 

And regardless of what you say, a compound fracture and dislocation of an ankle for a guy who relies on stability in that joint in pretty much every facet of his game, IS a huge concern. And yes of course he gets checked out by a doctor. But all that will tell us is "Yes, he can take part in football". It won't give us any indication of whether or not he's the same QB or ever will be. 

 

So it all matters, yes. Because by the time FA gets here we will have no way of knowing if Dak can actually play QB effectively since he's incredibly unlikely to be ready to do true football work so teams can see what they're getting.

 

That means some team is likely going to have to pony up a whole bunch of money and just hope. 

[tmandoug1]

1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Am I the only one that is overly tired of "but...but...Tom Brady!" references? He is one of the greatest aberrations in history...and not just sports. How many other late-QBs with this profile failed to even take a pre-season snap in the NFL?

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by tmandoug1

[86 Snyder]

5 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Am I the only one that is overly tired of "but...but...Tom Brady!" references? He is one of the greatest aberrations in history...and not just sports. How many other late-QBs with this profile failed to even take a pre-season snap in the NFL?

 

Things that need to be retired:

 

1- any and all comparisons to Brady/Belichick/NE

 

2- the phrase "kings ransom"

 

3- tweets that say anything followed by "Thats it.  Thats the tweet"

 

4- Colin Cowturd

 

I'm sure there are more.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by 86 Snyder

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, tmandoug1 said:

Oh...my bad. I will refrain from finding any other draft profiles that were full of **** and posting them on this open forum for discussions to occur. Get some sleep!

 

Thank you for your mature thought out response. Please come back when you have something intelligent to say.

[50yrSKINSfan]

31 minutes ago, carex said:

 

we've tried to get linemen like Payne and Allen in free agency and universally failed, so don't hand me that

Fine, keep your two 2 DTs and watch as teams like Tampa run through them and stone them on their pass rush and watch them hold you up for big money in a year or two. Our D line is good but it ain't the Fearsome Foursome. Keep going through seasons where you start 3 QBs and maybe get in a lucky wild card game because the rest of the division stinks and you get blown out first round. Try a reboot like Mariota or Darnold and waste another season watching mediocrity. Cheers.

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Am I the only one that is overly tired of "but...but...Tom Brady!" references? He is one of the greatest aberrations in history...and not just sports. How many other late-QBs with this profile failed to even take a pre-season snap in the NFL?

 

You're definitely not. To me it's the equivalent of saying "I saw a guy win the lottery at the store down the street once, so that means I'll definitely win it too if I keep playing the same game he did at the same store."

[justice98]

1 minute ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

Things that need to be retired:

 

1- any and all comparisons to Brady/Belichick/NE

 

2- the phrase "kings ransom"

 

3- tweets that say anything followed by "Thats it.  Thats the tweet"

 

4- Colin Cowturd

 

I'm sure there are more.

 

 

 

I would add #5 "trading the farm" or it's cousin "trading the house". 

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

Things that need to be retired:

 

1- any and all comparisons to Brady/Belichick/NE

 

2- the phrase "kings ransom"

 

3- tweets that say anything followed by "Thats it.  Thats the tweet"

 

4- Colin Cowturd

 

I'm sure there are more.

 

 

 

Thank you for #3. That annoys the crap out of me.

 

5 - "Generational Talent"

 

6 - Max Kellerman

 

[tmandoug1]

56 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Thank you for your mature thought out response. Please come back when you have something intelligent to say.

Your right and I apologize for my response. I should have just kept scrolling.

Edited February 3, 2021 by tmandoug1

[mistertim]

Just now, Riggo#44 said:

 

Thank you for #3. That annoys the crap out of me.

 

5 - "Generational Talent"

 

6 - Max Kellerman

 

 

 

 

I feel like this could almost be its own thread.

 

"Vet min plus incentives"

"Kick the tires"

"I'd give a ham sandwich for him"

[Riggo#44]

Just now, mistertim said:

"Vet min plus incentives"

 

[PartyPosse]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

 

 

I feel like this could almost be its own thread.

 

"Vet min plus incentives"

"Kick the tires"

"I'd give a ham sandwich for him"

“Back up the brinks truck”

[justice98]

8 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Am I the only one that is overly tired of "but...but...Tom Brady!" references? He is one of the greatest aberrations in history...and not just sports. How many other late-QBs with this profile failed to even take a pre-season snap in the NFL?

 

On Facebook, I get a lot of Kurt Warner references when people try to argue how Taylor Heinicke's going to be the next stud coming from the depths of obscurity to nail down the QB position.

[carex]

18 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Ok agree to disagree on their value. So if they're both elite DTs, how are you planning on paying them each upwards of $20 million per year (top 3 DT money) while still being able to re-sign Sweat, Ioan, Terry, and eventually Young?

 

The math just breaks down eventually. SF had to let one of their DL go as well when they were stacked with 1st rounders. There's almost no way around it unless we actually pay them a more reasonable contract.

by not throwing both them AND draft capital away at the same time you can draft their replacements if you can't keep them.  You don't send away major players and picks in the same deal. especially when it's a guy in a spot you'd have difficulty filling.  Now if you wanted to send Settle, because maybe some people figure he could start except he's behind two top quality guys that'd be different