Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[bakedtater1]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I am 100% out on Watson, to the point I'll barely even want to check in on this team the rest of the offseason. I like watching a team play football, not a player. Especially not a player on a nameless team. Washington Watsons, since we'll be selling our future out.

If we landed watson I would still be more excited to watch the defense..if we landed Watson curtis samuel and allen Robinson and zach ertz I'd still be more excited to watch the defense..and tress way..there would still be a team to watch..a team that would reak havock in the nfc east all year 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

If we landed watson I would still be more excited to watch the defense..if we landed Watson curtis samuel and allen Robinson and zach ertz I'd still be more excited to watch the defense..and tress way..there would still be a team to watch..a team that would reak havock in the nfc east all year 

If you sign those guys then what teams do you want to watch Payne, Chase, Sweat, Allen, McLaurin play for?

[wit33]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Funny and apt tweet 

 

 

 

Buuut... we have learned that Ron has his ear to the streets and decisions can be impacted by what he hears and emotions. 
 

 

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

I’m still fascinated by the desire by the fan base (I’m not talking about Rivera here, or the FO, I’m talking about forum posters, Twitter users, long time fans) to force a trade/overpay for a veteran. 
 

If Carr were available, why would you go right to offering a 1&3 for a ~15ish overall QB? It’s an improvement on last years play, but a first rounder is an extremely valuable commodity. Even if you use it as a trade piece to acquire extra picks instead of using it on a player.

 

If the team winds up valuing Carr and they use a one... not ideal but... eh. But why would get up in arms about a suggestion to offer a 3?

 

And the idea of trading for Watson is nauseating to me. And it’s not about him necessarily (though, ACL tears...). If it costs 3 ones and a few twos and a player or so... Are you doing the math at how crippling that is?

 

I saw a stat that said Watson is something like a guarantee to generate 5.5 wins or something by himself... his team didn’t win five games this year. So how does that work?

 

Watson is a supreme talent. But he, just like anyone else, needs help. 
 

We finished 7-9 in a terrible division and we go against a first place schedule next year. 
 

If we have to trade Allen or Sweat, plus multiple high draft choices, we are taking away wins from this season, against a poor schedule. Even if Watson adds “5.5” or whatever the stat was, we’re looking at a similar record.

 

Thats nothing to scoff at with our schedule. 10-7 would be impressive as hell. 11-6, 12-5 would be surreal.

 

But the conversation that we’re even a 9 or 10 win team still likely leaves us short of the intended goal. A Lombardi. 
 

The Rams have traded many first rounders and now they are 35M over the cap and had to trade multiple first rounders because they didn’t use their 5 year window on Goff. If they had he’d be off the books and they’d be 5M over. 
 

I am not against acquiring a veteran. QB play matters. But if you can’t use rookie window contracts and first round/second round selections to build your roster you are putting a majority of the onus on the acquired QB. 
 

Then what if that QB goes down? The roster won’t be as well rounded due to higher costs without the high picks. Cap space limited and your bad season that usually lands a consolation draft selection only helps Houston improve their roster with a high choice. 
 

I get the thought that QB play has always been a weakness and a good QB makes things happen. Watson certainly fits that profile. He would make us dangerous at all times on offense even with a meh roster. But being dangerous on offense and being a consistent scoring threat are different things. 

 

Yes!
 

How some have transitioned to Carr is mildly perplexing. I can legitimately argue Kyle Allen has more immediate value to the team next year than Carr, due to history with staff and scheme. 

 

My hope is Ron does have legit faith in Kyle Allen and doesn’t feel forced to make a QB move. I’m okay with being aggressive for a guy they believe in and love but not for a QB they like. 
 

The dream scenario is they get to the post season again with Allen and Taylor, lose in the divisional round, while Lance sits on the bench ready to take over the following 4 years on a rookie deal. Making it realistic to keep Montez, Young, Allen, Matt, and Payne all together for a nice 3-4 season window (interchange the pieces behind them with young studs on rookie deals or veterans). 

Edited February 1, 2021 by wit33

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Yeah, the pivot to "okay fine let's throw picks at Carr" is mainly driven by sports talk people on twitter looking for something to pivot to.

 

The reality is, Rivera and co. want to upgrade at QB. Last year they wanted to upgrade at WR and threw a boat load of $$ at Cooper.

 

They didn't overpay anyone else. AND they didn't use the draft to force the issue. They let the draft come to them, and didn't draft a WR until the 4th round.

 

WR Continued to be a weakness during the season as a result, but we didn't force the issue, and that's fine with me.

We could have panicked, traded #2 pick for a ransom of draft picks, and taken Jerry Jeudy or CeeDee Lamb with our 1st pick, but we didn't and if we had, boy would we have been in a tough spot last year.

[justice98]

17 hours ago, megared said:

 

You can't say that when his reasoning for wanting out was being left out of ownership decision making.  His original unhappiness stemmed from them trading Hopkins.  Do you really think Ron is going to seek his approval before he makes roster changes,  or hires front office personnel? 

 

Or that Ron's going to intentionally bring in someone to tempt Snyder's worst instincts?   

 

Because they promised it to him.  He was upset about Hopkins because everybody was upset about Hopkins. As they should've been.  Not gonna fault a guy for objecting to stupidity. 

 

Then when they fired O'Brian and the GM, they apparently promised to run things by him on the new coach and GM. What I'm saying is, that's they're fault, not his.  They probably overreacted trying to placate him and changed their mind.  Why would you ever promise that, then why would you promise it and then renege and not expect fallout?  They lied to his face.  This is a problem of ownership, not Deshaun Watson.  They are a clown show.  And now the new coach and GM have a mess to clean up.  

 

As we saw with Trent Williams, Ron's not kissing any player's ass.  Nor do I think this whole situation is inherently a personality flaw of Watson. 

 

Sure, Snyder's presence will always be that potential fly in the ointment, but probably now more than ever, I feel Snyder's more neutered than he's ever been.  And we can't avoid acquiring players because we're afraid of what Snyder will do with them.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I don't know WHY but I keep coming back to Mariota.

 

He seems like a smart flier to me.

 

I loved him coming out of Oregon. He displayed lots of potential in Tennessee but was never able to fully put it together. I know he struggled there at the end, but sometimes a change of scenery works wonders (hello Tannehill). He's mobile, which this offense could use, and he is probably the cheapest option out there, should the Raiders consider shedding his salary.

 

I know people on here want no part of him, but if he's a mid-round pick, why not kick the tires? Hell, if he has a career revitalization here and realizes the potential that had him go #2 you just "cheated the system" so to speak. Mariota and Darnold are really the only two players that could be available that I feel this way about. They are the two options that could lead you to a Tannehill-like situation.

[Dissident2]

22 hours ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

Hypothetically, if we could give 2 firsts, a 2nd, their pick of any QB on our roster and Montez Sweat for Houston to give us Watson, would you do it? 

 

I love Montez, but tell me where to sign. Periodt. 

Won't be enough. But yes, I'd do it. But it will not be enough. 

[bakedtater1]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

If you sign those guys then what teams do you want to watch Payne, Chase, Sweat, Allen, McLaurin play for?

I was exaggerating but I would enjoy watching them.play for my beloved Washington football team. 

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I don't know WHY but I keep coming back to Mariota.

 

He seems like a smart flier to me.

 

I loved him coming out of Oregon. He displayed lots of potential in Tennessee but was never able to fully put it together. I know he struggled there at the end, but sometimes a change of scenery works wonders (hello Tannehill). He's mobile, which this offense could use, and he is probably the cheapest option out there, should the Raiders consider shedding his salary.

 

I know people on here want no part of him, but if he's a mid-round pick, why not kick the tires? Hell, if he has a career revitalization here and realizes the potential that had him go #2 you just "cheated the system" so to speak. Mariota and Darnold are really the only two players that could be available that I feel this way about. They are the two options that could lead you to a Tannehill-like situation.

Mariota intrigues me but he's got a history of injuries. He does fit the mold of mobile athletic QB that Rivera/Turner are seemingly looking for though.

[BurgundyBooger]

Yeah, talk shows and other commentators are fueling an artificial demand for Carr and valuing him so highly. That's the power of the media I guess, social or otherwise, creating nonsense out of nothing. This team was desperate to offer a 1st and 3rd for Stafford and they're even dumber to consider the same cost for Carr. His value is being inflated harder than Gamestop.

Edited February 1, 2021 by BurgundyBooger

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

So we missed on Stafford. Bummer man. I liked the effort though, solid offer. Would have been a nice pairing. 
 

Reload and go all in on Watson. Most are moving on and don’t feel he is a realistic option. Good, imo, that works in our favor.
If that flames out, check in on Carr, check in on Ryan. 
 

I think the Rams deal showed that if you have a franchise qb anything is possible for your future, including moving him to scale up. Without one you aren’t in the conversation.

 

The Rams super bowl odds improved with the move, now putting them in the top 3 most likely to win the Super Bowl. You think they care what they gave up draft wise today? Without a top flight qb you most likely are not getting a whiff of the Lombardy.  With Watson our Super Bowl odds would be in the top 10? I’d think so. 
 

I don’t think our odds would be that hot if we traded for Carr or Ryan, but I would guarantee they’d be significantly better than they are today.  It begins and ends with QB in this league. Everything else is mental “gymnastics,” to put it kindly. 

 

Ron and company know this. Watson is our chance to seize the moment. Hopefully they are ready to pounce when the time comes. 
 

If you miss on it, then so be it. You tried. But this idea, from lots of fans, of standing pat as the central plan (rolling w/ Heinicke/Allen) is silly, hence why Ron just offered 2 of our top picks for Stafford. All you are doing is trying to increase your odds of success.

Keep shooting for the stars Ron!

 

[Andre The Giant]

 

[mhd24]

According to Breer, Carolina offered their first (#8) and Detroit passed!  I think Detroit did that because they wanted best for Stafford.  Carolina is in no position to win now.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Watson situation is interesting because he controls the cards. If they refuse to move him, then so be it. Can't do much about that. BUT, kick the tires, and if he likes the situation maybe he pushes for it. I'm sure he sees the type of coach Rivera is and would love to play for him with this defense.

 

So yeah, if the Jets/Dolphins get involved and offer their 1sts this year and beyond, we can't compete. BUT if they sense the price is too high and opt not to pursue, we could be in a good spot.

 

Offer 1-2-3 this year and 1-2 next year. If the Texans go full-tank, that gives them 2 1sts next year with which to make a move for a QB (and assume they'll have a top pick anyway) ... they could go full-tank. And then they can use the 1-2-3 this year to replenish the roster.

 

If there's ever a time to go full-tank it's when you're depleted of draft picks, over the cap, and have no franchise QB, which is where they sit if Watson refuses to come back. Watson may want to be a Jet. Or a Dolphin. But maybe he also wants to be a Football Team, and if he pushes for us maybe we can get away with an offer than isn't seeling the farm or the defensive talent. Doubftul, though.

Edited February 1, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[bakedtater1]

How would everyone feel if we did surprisingly end up with Matt Ryan?..I could see something like that happening..does he fit what we're trying to do?

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

According to Breer, Carolina offered their first (#8) and Detroit passed!  I think Detroit did that because they wanted best for Stafford.  Carolina is in no position to win now.

I guess that's why the Lions are the Lions.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm resigned to the fact that QB purgatory lives on in Washington.  Time to suck it up, and be grateful to gut out enough wins to squeak into the playoffs.

 

I would have been beyond excited to get Stafford for a 1st and 3rd.  But this talk of having to give up a great young talent, multiple firsts and whatever else to sign Watson...count me out.  I'm all for aggressive and nobody wants the QB position fixed more than me, but I think it's clear Watson intends to control his own destiny and running Turner's offense just doesn't seem like something he'd be clamoring for.  Trading the farm for a guy that might not be in love with your system, that also eats up a ton of cap space, is just not enticing to me.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

How would everyone feel if we did surprisingly end up with Matt Ryan?..I could see something like that happening..does he fit what we're trying to do?

Bad.  Very bad.

 

No thanks to giving up anything to get him or paying his salary.

[86 Snyder]

9 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Second ACL injuries six times more likely after reconstruction, study finds

Source: American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine (AOSSM)

 

Summary: Anterior cruciate ligament reconstruction (ACLR) surgery is a common knee injury procedure, but the overall incidence rate of having to go through it again within 24 months is six times greater than someone who has never had an ACL tear, according to researchers.

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130711084135.htm

 

I think your medical advice is on par with your QB evaluations 😂

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/williamsterett.com/blog-dr-william-sterett/how-likely-are-you-to-tear-the-same-acl-twice%3fformat=amp

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

How would everyone feel if we did surprisingly end up with Matt Ryan?..I could see something like that happening..does he fit what we're trying to do?

 

Judging by their coaching staff's recent comments and dead money hit, doesn't look like they'd trade him.  I wouldn't love it on the off chance they did trade for him, if I recall his cap hit if we obtained him this year is about 33 million and ditto next year.  Stafford IMO is the better player and a signficantly lower cap hit. 

[HigSkin]

JP Finlay on the Junkies this morning said he has no idea what the next move is going to be but everyone is fairly confident we are now going to have to a while to see how this plays out.

 

He did talk about Heineke being THE backup to any QB and if Alex stayed to be a mentor in the QB room, he'd have to take a significant pay cut like a couple mil per year.  The only way he feels that happens is if they draft a guy.

 

He also said fans are over valuing the roster talent, they aren't a QB away.  It's only a part of what they need.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by HigSkin

[justice98]

8 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

How would everyone feel if we did surprisingly end up with Matt Ryan?..I could see something like that happening..does he fit what we're trying to do?

 

He's older than Alex Smith was when we got him.  I think we dont run it consistently enough to make an aging QB a good option.  And in a couple years, we'll be right back in the same spot wondering who the QB is gonna be.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

Yes!
 

How some have transitioned to Carr is mildly perplexing. I can legitimately argue Kyle Allen has more immediate value to the team next year than Carr, due to history with staff and scheme. 

 

I'm not a huge Carr fan, but to say he's not an upgrade over Allen is silly. Yes, Allen has the advantage of having familiarity with the system, but Carr is a superior QB. Carr had a PFF rating last season of 84.7 (which put him at #10 overall in the NFL per their metrics) and Allen had a 68.5. In 2019 when he started most of the season, he had a 49.7.

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by mistertim

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm not a huge Carr fan, but to say he's not an upgrade on Allen is silly. Yes, Allen has the advantage of having familiarity with the system, but Carr is a superior QB. Carr had a PFF rating last season of 84.7 (which put him at #10 overall in the NFL per their metrics) and Allen had a 68.5. In 2019 when he started most of the season, he had a 49.7.

 

He’s an absolute upgrade to the “known” aspect of our QB room. If Heinicke turns out to be consistently what he was against Tampa and able to stay healthy that changes things. But that’s obviously not a sure fire bet the farm situation. 
 

He is better than both as they are currently known. He is a top 15 QB in the league.

 

I wouldn’t give up a first for him by any stretch. But if the team did for a single first I wouldn’t be too frustrated. If they could get him for a third I would pounce on that so fast your head would spin.