Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Yeah, you said something ridiculous and now are pretending your words meant something different.

I would literally have trouble taking anyone's football knowledge seriously if they try to tell me they consider Carr a top 10 QB. 15th is arguable,. I would disagree, but wouldn't consider it laughable. 

 

It's the honest truth lol believe what you want. Top 11 or top 12 sounds weird so I said top 10. I'm the one who proactively listed the guys I thought were better and saw he came in closer to 15 than 10. *shrug*

 

My point is we were all on board for Stafford, and there aren't that many guys in between Stafford and Carr. So if the org valued Stafford at a 1st and 3rd, which we know they did, they should probably rate Carr similarly.

 

As for getting clowned on here, two things I have never been afraid of as a man: 1) holding an unpopular opinion, and 2) changing my opinions based on new info or advanced understanding of existing info. So it doesn't faze me one wink.  Try getting me on a roller coaster though!

[PartyPosse]

4 hours ago, panahoo said:

How about #19, 2nd and one of the 3rds for Carr, Waller, and Ruggs?

Why would Vegas do that?

52 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

On a more serious situation...Smith is acting like he wants to play....,are we seriously gonna keep him around like what more do we owe him at this point 

About 50 million.

[Est.1974]

We should have upped our offer for Stafford. 

 

Although it seems like the Rams trade was ideal for both teams, and Stafford himself. So it likely couldn’t be beaten in reality. Shame.

[KillBill26]

53 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

We should have upped our offer for Stafford. 

 

Although it seems like the Rams trade was ideal for both teams, and Stafford himself. So it likely couldn’t be beaten in reality. Shame.

That was my take on why I had stafford #1 on my list, and everyone else a distant 2nd.  Considering his cost and that he is only 32 years old, I felt the price was palatable.  Now, our options are going to require more assets and/or a player with warts.  I don't feel very good about what else is out there.

 

But you're right, if stafford wanted his next team to be the Rams, nothing we could've done.  Wouldn't it be nice if players told their agents, " I want to play for the skins and no one else, make it happen "

[FrFan]

Trading for veteran QBs is rarely a Super Bowl-winning formula

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by FrFan

[Est.1974]

So the #1 and 3rd we offered for Stafford, if you add those together for a trade up in the draft, chances are that gets you up to #13. As we’ve said, teams picking 8-12 don’t look great as partners.

 

The next option looks like a cap in hand move to #7 with Detroit, they have Goff so are out of the QB market. But would they want to slip all the way back to #19. And the price of that move likely requires next years second rounder. Which then makes you think we may as well have ponied that up for Stafford.

 

In terms of the draft, the Chargers at #13 look our best bet. But who falls to that slot when the feeding frenzy starts?

 

Limited, or more like difficult, scenarios in both the vet and draft market.

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by UK SKINS FAN 74

[Koolblue13]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am still in on the QB hunt and I gather so is Rivera.  So that puts you outside the circle of trust.  😀

 

But if I was doing it your way, then I definitiely dump Alex, you'd want that cap space to upgrade the roster.  

 

Ride with Allen/Heinicke.  Trade up for a player I know we agree on, Kyle Pitts, if you can do it without giving up the farm or if you can't pull that off then draft N. Harris.   If you can't get Pitts take Brevin Jordan in the 2nd.  I doubt Allen Robinson or Godwin would want to come here then.  So shoot lower in FA, Curtis Samuel maybe M. Jones to upgrade WR.  

 

Sign L. David or K. Wright at MLB.  Take the Alex savings and sign a FS which there are plenty of in FA like Harris or Johnson.  And use the rest of the picks to go BPA. 

 

 

Honestly, I like Carr and I've been serious about wanting Winston this entire time. 

 

I wish we could get Pitts, but I don't see that being realistic. 

 

I'd love to Draft Collins and sign David. I'd also be happy going with Harris, then grabbing Jordan in the second. 

 

I think this is the team building season, last year was the evaluation. 2022 is the year we do real damage.

 

Imagine adding an every down bruiser like Harris and then loading up the D with David, Collins and Simmons after resigning Darby. 

 

This might be the first draft ever, that I'm totally on board with loading up on offense too.  

[RichmondRedskin88]

I’m not taking the Texans demands.  If they want a disgruntled Watson feel free. The dude has made it clear he is mentally done with them.  Once that happens you have to get them out because it only gets worse in the locker room. 

[WEARE1554]

Agree with you on Carr —would also not be mad at a good deal with Winston

[KDawg]

I’m still fascinated by the desire by the fan base (I’m not talking about Rivera here, or the FO, I’m talking about forum posters, Twitter users, long time fans) to force a trade/overpay for a veteran. 
 

If Carr were available, why would you go right to offering a 1&3 for a ~15ish overall QB? It’s an improvement on last years play, but a first rounder is an extremely valuable commodity. Even if you use it as a trade piece to acquire extra picks instead of using it on a player.

 

If the team winds up valuing Carr and they use a one... not ideal but... eh. But why would get up in arms about a suggestion to offer a 3?

 

And the idea of trading for Watson is nauseating to me. And it’s not about him necessarily (though, ACL tears...). If it costs 3 ones and a few twos and a player or so... Are you doing the math at how crippling that is?

 

I saw a stat that said Watson is something like a guarantee to generate 5.5 wins or something by himself... his team didn’t win five games this year. So how does that work?

 

Watson is a supreme talent. But he, just like anyone else, needs help. 
 

We finished 7-9 in a terrible division and we go against a first place schedule next year. 
 

If we have to trade Allen or Sweat, plus multiple high draft choices, we are taking away wins from this season, against a poor schedule. Even if Watson adds “5.5” or whatever the stat was, we’re looking at a similar record.

 

Thats nothing to scoff at with our schedule. 10-7 would be impressive as hell. 11-6, 12-5 would be surreal.

 

But the conversation that we’re even a 9 or 10 win team still likely leaves us short of the intended goal. A Lombardi. 
 

The Rams have traded many first rounders and now they are 35M over the cap and had to trade multiple first rounders because they didn’t use their 5 year window on Goff. If they had he’d be off the books and they’d be 5M over. 
 

I am not against acquiring a veteran. QB play matters. But if you can’t use rookie window contracts and first round/second round selections to build your roster you are putting a majority of the onus on the acquired QB. 
 

Then what if that QB goes down? The roster won’t be as well rounded due to higher costs without the high picks. Cap space limited and your bad season that usually lands a consolation draft selection only helps Houston improve their roster with a high choice. 
 

I get the thought that QB play has always been a weakness and a good QB makes things happen. Watson certainly fits that profile. He would make us dangerous at all times on offense even with a meh roster. But being dangerous on offense and being a consistent scoring threat are different things. 

[zCommander]

28 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

So the #1 and 3rd we offered for Stafford, if you add those together for a trade up in the draft, chances are that gets you up to #13. As we’ve said, teams picking 8-12 don’t look great as partners.

 

The next option looks like a cap in hand move to #7 with Detroit, they have Goff so are out of the QB market. But would they want to slip all the way back to #19. And the price of that move likely requires next years second rounder. Which then makes you think we may as well have ponied that up for Stafford.

 

 

We didn't have a QB to give to the Lions like the Rams did though. That was the deal breaker for us. 

[Est.1974]

12 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

We didn't have a QB to give to the Lions like the Rams did though. That was the deal breaker for us. 

Well and Stafford seemingly wanted to head West. Doesn’t prevent us pushing the door harder to test their resolve. And I would also say, Goff had no future in LA, something was going to give there soon.

 

Increase the offer and make them refuse.

[brettstr]

Has anyone considered that any QB that comes here from any program "Could FaiI" due to the new scheme they are required to play in? If you look at the QB's that have come from the college ranks and have been successful, some coaches have incorporated that scheme or design into the playbook. The WFT could reasonably get a QB that will not adjust to the current playbook being asked by that coach or OC. I do believe Brady was allowed to bring most if not all of what he did in NE and made the Tampa offense revolve around what he did for all of his career. Question. Would RR or Turner turn over to the offense to a Vet or force him into the present scheme ?

 

I hated the idea of Bradford coming here and not to fond of the Mayhew hire either due to limited success.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/02/01/mmqb-super-bowl-week-matthew-stafford-trade-negotiations-los-angeles-rams

 

The Matthew Stafford sweepstakes lasted, in essence, seven days. And while the Lions certainly had the idea that they wanted it to happen quickly in the back of their minds—to get ahead of quarterbacks potentially flooding the market and bending the supply/demand curve, or Deshaun Watson turning Stafford into a consolation prize—there was no telling how quickly things would materialize.

They got their answer quickly, with interest rising fast in a quarterback that the NFL was resoundingly, if implicitly, endorsing as a star with the way the market for his services exploded.

 

Little did he know how soon all of it would come into play.

News of Stafford’s availability emerged two Saturdays ago, which is part of why the Lions figured dispatching Disner and Holmes to Mobile for the Senior Bowl—where they could meet with other teams—would be smart. The two came back late in the week with multiple teams willing to throw a first-round pick in the ring.

Word was that Stafford’s preferred destinations were, in order, the Rams, Niners and Colts. And while the Lions were always going to do what was best for the Lions (and Stafford didn’t have a no-trade clause to commandeer the process), they were also cognizant of what their former No. 1 pick wanted.

By the time things started to come to a boiling point, the Lions had an initial offer from the Rams (their 2022 first-rounder, Goff, and an additional pick) that wasn’t going to cut it. But it was that interest from the Rams—and that it became public on Friday night, via a report from ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler—that prompted a frenzy to land Stafford. By Saturday, the market had crystallized.

 

• Both Washington and Carolina had offered their first-round picks and then some. The Panthers’ first-rounder is eighth (that wound up being the highest pick offered) and their proposal came with a later pick. Washington packaged a third-round pick with the 19th pick.

• The Colts discussed packages of picks and players, but never actually wound up offering their first-rounder, the 21st pick.

• The Niners talked to the Lions in Mobile, but at the time were a little lukewarm and never made an official offer. They’d planned to circle back with Detroit after the weekend, but when things escalated Saturday and the Lions called back, the price had gone beyond what they were willing to offer (in part because they’re fine going forward with Jimmy Garoppolo). My sense is the 12th pick was never going to be offered.

• The Broncos discussed a pick swap with the Lions that would have equated to a late first-round pick, but it wound up becoming clear to Denver that they weren’t playing in the neighborhood where this was going.

• The Patriots and Bears both checked in. New England was willing to package a second-rounder with a player to get Stafford, which, when added to the Patriots’ absence on a list of preferred destinations (something my buddy Tom Curran reported on Sunday) quickly eliminated Bill Belichick & Co. from the chase.

• And finally, late Friday, the Jets checked in. The Lions circled back with New York on Saturday, but talks didn’t go very far.

 

That gave the Lions more than a quarter of the NFL in on the Stafford Derby—again, indicating just what the NFL thinks of No. 9. It also gave Hamp, Wood and Disner the knowledge that they’d accomplish a goal of theirs by giving Holmes the ammo to do what’s at the heart of what got him into that GM chair, and that’s evaluating college players, maximizing draft picks and, ultimately, building a strong, younger roster as a result.

Anyway, by midday on Saturday, Washington and Carolina had emerged as the favorites to land Stafford, and the Lions came to the realization that a deal could be in the offing. But if they’d guessed at that point where Stafford was going, they’d have probably been wrong.

 

...And with uncertainty over whether Watson or others would be available later in the winter, the Rams homed in on Stafford.

 

Two things worked to buoy the Rams’ interest, and the first was McVay’s personal drive to get the deal done.

Along those lines, McVay was the one who called Rams owner Stan Kroenke on Saturday to sign off on the team going the extra mile to get it done, spurred by some extra tape work he and Snead did. That work only cemented what McVay loved about Stafford already—how quickly he processes, his pocket movement, his play urgency, his ability to throw off platform or in rhythm and his tough, fearless style—which pushed Snead into the mode where he was going into the afternoon with the intention of getting a deal done.

 

The second thing was that everyone the Rams asked loved and believed in Stafford. And that wound up including McVay himself, who happened to have a casual friendship with him. McVay is buddies with Bills receivers coach Chad Hall, from the days when the two were star high school quarterbacks in the Atlanta area (McVay at Marist, Hall at Wesleyan), and Hall’s sister happens to be … Kelly Hall Stafford.

 

....On paper, the return looks a little wild. But the Rams’ perspective on the deal was a little different than most.

First, as they saw it, if the first-round picks wind up being in the 20s (or later), then they’d have given up about what, on a points basis, Carolina was offering with the eighth overall pick. The old Jimmy Johnson draft value chart puts the eighth pick at 1,400 points, making it equal to two 26th overall picks (700 each). And getting a clean break on Goff, and offloading his deal, rather than having to smoke out suitors under duress was a big benefit.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Honestly, I like Carr and I've been serious about wanting Winston this entire time. 

 

I wish we could get Pitts, but I don't see that being realistic. 

 

I'd love to Draft Collins and sign David. I'd also be happy going with Harris, then grabbing Jordan in the second. 

 

I think this is the team building season, last year was the evaluation. 2022 is the year we do real damage.

 

Imagine adding an every down bruiser like Harris and then loading up the D with David, Collins and Simmons after resigning Darby. 

 

This might be the first draft ever, that I'm totally on board with loading up on offense too.  

 

I like a lot of this.  Not A Winston guy but I wouldn't hate it since none of the FAs excited me, so he might not be in my mind the tallest of the midgets in FA but not far off.  My concern about him is there is some evidence he's a knucklehead. 

 

2022 is potentially a crap year for QBs so my hopes aren't high for punting on that position. 

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like a lot of this.  Not A Winston guy but I wouldn't hate it since none of the FAs excited me, so he might not be in my mind the tallest of the midgets in FA but not far off.  My concern about him is there is some evidence he's a knucklehead. 

 

2022 is potentially a crap year for QBs so my hopes aren't high for punting on that position. 

I'm speaking of a big Staffordesque type move in 2022, when we're good enough.

[CjSuAvE22]

13 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm speaking of a big Staffordesque type move in 2022, when we're good enough.

Why tho it doesnt work in this day in age of football....you need draft picks to stay youthful young guys getting paid less are hungry. Monster trades for qbs set the team back we are better of looking in the garbage bin or hoping an elite older qb is released, when in the last 20 years has trading a 1st round pick for a qb over 30 worked dont just look at us look at it league wide... it hasnt in fact teams rarely do it.

Edited February 1, 2021 by CjSuAvE22

[DWinzit]

Once again it appears RR set a limit on the valuation of a player and didn't go over that. 

 

Next we see the valuation on Watson

 

We know the Rams did their due diligence with Green Bay on Rodgers before making the move with Stafford. I wonder if RR has a vet in mind other that Watson. If that player was not to become a FA, wold make sense to kick the tires now before the Watson sweepstakes? I know, Watson is better than the other options but their chances of getting him are slim. Once Watson falls wouldn't the other options price increase

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm speaking of a big Staffordesque type move in 2022, when we're good enough.

 

Stafford's don't hit the market every year, I wish they did.  it's more unique than common.   If we strike out on QBs this year I'd put money that we will strike out next year too where the pool is looking to be much smaller.  Granted things can always change.  Right now maybe its 37 year old Matt Ryan htting the market in 2022 who i am not that high on at that age.  

 

I am optimistic about the roster in general but a pessimist on them fixing QB and raising their ceiling to anything other than a 10-6 kind of team with little shot at a SB.  I think we are headed right now for a rerrun of the Gibbs 2 years, which was fun in the context of our team's history under Dan but nothing that serious as for being considered a great NFL team.

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

I am 100% out on Watson, to the point I'll barely even want to check in on this team the rest of the offseason. I like watching a team play football, not a player. Especially not a player on a nameless team. Washington Watsons, since we'll be selling our future out.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Mooka]

8 hours ago, redskinsrmylyfe said:

Landon and Matt just turned 27 this month. Since when is 27 Old? Plus we're talking about them filling in for players who would allow us to get a top five NFL quarterback who would put us over the top and make us the instant Super Bowl contender

 

This is Landon's 7th season and Matt's 5th, coming off an achilles injury and a torn biceps. Thats a massive difference between Payne (4th season) and Curl (2nd) with no significant injuries still on rookie contracts. 

 

Collins is trade bait. Have to dump his contract or outright release him.

[abdcskins]

I was sort of surprised the Rams soured on Goff so quickly.  I watched them play a few times this year cuz I live in LA, and he didn't look that bad.  I guess the stats tell a different story.  I just wonder how much of an upgrade Stafford really is from Goff.  I think the Lions got the best of that trade by far.  

 

I am not sure where the Skins go from here.  I could see us ending up with Newton, which would be kind of lackluster but better than what we have.  I pray we don't give up the farm for Watson.  We have tried that before and it led to many years of misery.  You can't give away multiple first rounders for one player, mortgaging the future never works.  I see us using a mid-round pick on Kyle Trask.  Calling it now.

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Stafford's don't hit the market every year, I wish they did.  it's more unique than common.   If we strike out on QBs this year I'd put money that we will strike out next year too where the pool is looking to be much smaller.  Granted things can always change.  Right now maybe its 37 year old Matt Ryan htting the market in 2022 who i am not that high on at that age.  

 

I am optimistic about the roster in general but a pessimist on them fixing QB and raising their ceiling to anything other than a 10-6 kind of team with little shot at a SB.  I think we are headed right now for a rerrun of the Gibbs 2 years, which was fun in the context of our team's histroy under Dan but nothing that serious as for being considered a great NFL team.

 

Didn't the Gibbs II team go for QB the exact same way that you're advocating for? 

 

I'd hit the draft aggressively or take a flyer on Book or Newsom and see if they can develop.