Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Mooka]

Maybe we can roll with interchangeable mobile QBs. 

 

Allen/Heinicke/Other mobile QB.  (RG3? Lol jk)

 

Sign Curtis Samuel, put him in the backfield with Gibson and JD. Put the QB on the move every play and just bring in the next if one goes down. 

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

I'm not in the pro Carr camp and I'm not in the anti Carr camp either. But one thing that interests me is that back in (I think it was 2017 or 2018) when we beat the Raiders with Carr as their QB with a great catch by Doctson, Gruden wasn't their coach. It was Del Rio. Del Rio is our DC right now. So he has some inside information on the guy. Just like I was saying that Turner and Ron have notes on Heinicke and Allen from all the years of watching them in practice, Del Rio has that same info on Carr, and Carr was looking really good with Del Rio before he was unjustly fired. 

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'd love to have Watson, obviously.  But seeing what the Rams gave up for Stafford (which I'd have been fine with), just imagine what it will take to get Watson.  I also have to add in that it seems he's pretty particular about what he wants.  We have Scott Turner at OC and no weapons outside of Terry.  We've got Ron and the gang in charge of everything, who simply doesn't seem like a guy that wants his QB as quasi-GM.  I just can't see this being a desired destination for him.

 

I'd love to have Watson and i'd be ultra aggressive to go get him.  I've heard only great things about Watson is as a dude and big time so -- great leader, great guy.  The Texans dysfunction coupled with the owner apparently lying to him got him upset -- that doesn't scare me.   

 

But it feels like such a stretch that they'd have even a fighting chance to get him that it would pain me to duke it out on this point with others because it strikes me as a colossal waste of time.

 

I've heard now Keim say twice he'd expect them in on Watson if he hits the market and Finlay said it once.  That's enough for me to believe that they'd be part of the chase. 

 

I am more optimistic about this roster than most.  I think you can upgrade the QB and other spots in one off season versus it being just QB and nothing else.  But I am a super pessimist about the notion of just punt the QB spot for down the road and then when you want that great QB, he likely just falls in your lap, and every year we got a Stafford type auctioned up.  That's just not how the NFL has rolled over the years.  Maybe that will change moving forward.  But for me i am in the live in the moment mode when it comes to chasing a QB.  Who knows if any of these type of trades manifest next year.   i'd bet no. 

 

I am sure we won't be the only QB needy team that might miss out on Qbs this season so the competition will likely still exist and that competition might be for a smaller pool of players.  Tough for me to fathom for example that 2022 will be easier.  Right now it looks harder.  Potentially a bad draft for QBs, bad FA crop.  And you got me who is the surpise dude that hits the trade market then, only one that hits me now is Matt Ryan and he'd be 37. 

 

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'm not in the pro Carr camp and I'm not in the anti Carr camp either. But one thing that interests me is that back in (I think it was 2017 or 2018) when we beat the Raiders with Carr as their QB with a great catch by Doctson, Gruden wasn't their coach. It was Del Rio. Del Rio is our DC right now. So he has some inside information on the guy. Just like I was saying that Turner and Ron have notes on Heinicke and Allen from all the years of watching them in practice, Del Rio has that same info on Carr, and Carr was looking really good with Del Rio before he was unjustly fired. 

 

That's part of my thought.  If the Junkies are right and the WFT indeed likes Carr, I'd bet some of that is from Del Rio. 

[tmandoug1]

4 minutes ago, Mooka said:

Maybe we can roll with interchangeable mobile QBs. 

 

Allen/Heinicke/Other mobile QB.  (RG3? Lol jk)

 

Sign Curtis Samuel, put him in the backfield with Gibson and JD. Put the QB on the move every play and just bring in the next if one goes down. 

 

 

So who plays QB after our 3rd game.....you do realize that's how are luck has been with semi-mobile QB's.

[Darrell Green Fan]

20 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

Just like to reiterate one thing...Rivera thought highly enough of Heineckiie to start him in a playoff game after kicking our #1 draft pick off of the team. I was in the Stafford camp but not in the Watson camp because of the 2 Acl injuries someone posted about. Lets get a  (cheap) Trubisky, Winston, Carr, Taylor in here and let them compete for next year. 

 

If Ron was high on Heineke he would have brought him in much sooner. After Alex was not available for the playoff run his options were literally Heineke and Montez, obviously Heineke was the correct choice for that particular game but that's all it shows.  

[CjSuAvE22]

My take is they are gonna roll with what we have the whiners will be upset till about week 6 when we are 4-2 and everyone will come to gather and forget that we missed out on Watson Carr Stafford Mickey Mouse and whatever else it is people want to trade draft picks for.....

[skinny21]

I assume our FO inquires about Watson, and maybe they go ahead and makes an offer even if Houston says they aren’t looking for suitors.  Dip the toe in the water with a robust offer, but below what media is talking about - something like 1st and 3rd in 2021, 1st and 2nd in 2022.  High enough to make Houston at least think about it (even if they respond immediately with a “no thanks”), low enough that we’d be willing to up it a bit.

 

I understand the concerns with both his ACLs/injury potential and the ability to improve the roster, I’m just not seeing much of a chance for us to land a talented qb for the next couple years.

 

On the other hand, with a little luck, I could see us going the NY Giants route - dominant D, and hoping for decent qb play.  Whether that’s a vet like Winston/Fitzpatrick/etc to compete with Allen/Heinicke, grooming a young guy, or whatever.

 

Regardless, TB exposed our D (though that could be more of a Brady vs Del Rio thing), and our run game could use some work.  Our D picked up quite a bit as the season wore on though, so I’m looking forward to watching the team with (hopefully) some added talent.  Would love to see high level qb play, but I think taking Haskins out of the equation probably buys us another win or 3 - even if we wind up switching qbs due to injury.

[CjSuAvE22]

2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

If Ron was high on Heineke he would have brought him in much sooner. After Alex was not available for the playoff run his options were literally Heineke and Montez, obviously Heineke was the correct choice for that particular game but that's all it shows.  

If then shoulda coulda whatever means nothing I saw him play 5 quarters of football and to me he played 5 damn good quarters it shows ability, can he build off the ability only time will tell but to me he looked very Tony Romoesque in terms of pocket presence and a knack for making plays, can't give up on a cheap qb that shows potential too quickly and when you do and vomit draft picks history shows more times then not it doesn't work in fact it hasn't worked in the last 20 years and not many teams outside of us do it. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But it feels like such a stretch that they'd have even a fighting chance to get him that it would pain me to duke it out on this point with others because it strikes me as a colossal waste of time.

That was part of my point, that even if we were to offer what it takes, I don't think this is a place he'd want to go.  Not because I think we're miles away from being good, but we have some work to do, and our offense doesn't exactly scream 'come here'.

 

Like you, I've heard nothing to suggest the guy is an A-hole.  I also understand that while his behavior seems diva-ish, Houston has been an absolute mess and it doesn't seem they've done anything at all to make the relationship any better.  But when guys make power moves like this, the motive is typically to end up where they desire, and I just don't see Washington being that place right now.

[Dark Acre]

So Watson holds out all year because no one wants to pay Houston's ransom demand.  Then their demand drops a bit next year and WFT makes them an offer they can't refuse -- and does so because it smartly drafts this year, smartly does FA, and fills the holes in the team except QB, enabling it to go big on QB.

 

"I'm bored.  I'm broke.  And I'm going to Washington."  

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That was part of my point, that even if we were to offer what it takes, I don't think this is a place he'd want to go.  Not because I think we're miles away from being good, but we have some work to do, and our offense doesn't exactly scream 'come here'.

 

Like you, I've heard nothing to suggest the guy is an A-hole.  I also understand that while his behavior seems diva-ish, Houston has been an absolute mess and it doesn't seem they've done anything at all to make the relationship any better.  But when guys make power moves like this, the motive is typically to end up where they desire, and I just don't see Washington being that place right now.

 

Don't know about Watson wanting to come here or not.  But regardless, I don't see them having the capital to do it. 

 

My guess as to coming here, the roster is good enough.  This roster isn't stuck in sand.  We are likely 6 weeks away of having a spanking new MLB and WR regardless of what we do at QB.  If the dude is supposedly interested in going to the Jets or Dolphins -- IMO our roster stacks well with either one.

 

Miami to me has the most overrrated roster.  Their O line was ranked almost dead last by PFF.  They have no serious weapons.  They have further to go on offense than we do.  I think we got the better defense too.  So why did they have a better season?  Fitzpatrick >>>> Haskins.   I do like what Miami has done and they have a ton of picks so they are building smart but IMO neither they or the Jets have better rosters than we do.

 

SF's roster to me though is more appealing.  They got the defense and the better weapons. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Imo, this Watson thing isn’t about being 1 piece away. It’s more about securing your QB for the next 7-10 years or more, and filling in the requisite pieces around him. I bring it up because I’ve seen the “we aren’t 1 piece away argument” floated as the reason we shouldn’t.  That’s not a good reason to not acquire a stud 25 yr old QB. To me it doesn’t matter what else we gotta put together. Get the QB and figure out the rest. It won’t be easy and it won’t be cheap, but you gotta try. 

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

i don't have a strong feeling about Carr one way or another but delving into him some last night he comes off better than I originally thought.

 

My bottom line on it is simple:

 

I'd think Rivera and Del Rio and the whole Carolina crew that are here would know miles more about Kyle Allen, Taylor Heinicke and Derek Carr than we would from our couch.  So if they pull the trigger and chase Carr or instead internally believe that Kyle Allen is a top half of the league QB and no need for Carr or anyone else -- I'd support and believe either scenario.  

An Allen thesis would require one to ask what is the gap between #15 QB and #22 and how does cost factor into the overall equation. Top half of the league QB isn’t a cut off point of average to above play for the QB position and is nuanced. For example, Allen being in the same scheme for years and having a defense that’s potentially ascending to elite status has increased value for Washington. Allen on the open market would have much less value is my position. 
 

With that said, Im not even a huge Allen supporter, but believe he displayed enough command of the offense to be average.  Still a question whether he can be trusted to manage games consistently, which is a huge knock. Like you said, the staff would know best if he was trending in direction of having the ability to consistently manage games. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by wit33

[Darrell Green Fan]

16 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

If then shoulda coulda whatever means nothing I saw him play 5 quarters of football and to me he played 5 damn good quarters it shows ability, can he build off the ability only time will tell but to me he looked very Tony Romoesque in terms of pocket presence and a knack for making plays, can't give up on a cheap qb that shows potential too quickly and when you do and vomit draft picks history shows more times then not it doesn't work in fact it hasn't worked in the last 20 years and not many teams outside of us do it. 

 

I was very entertained by Heineke's play, he reminded me of Doug Flutie. I watched the Tampa Bay game again to take another look. His escapeability and foot speed was noticeable unfortunately his weak arm was as well.  If he had the ability to be a good NFL QB he would have been signed instead of being available at a moment's notice.  

 

I just caution fans not to read too much into 5 quarters of play. If drafting a first round QB is long odds the odds of finding another Curt Warner, without the arm, are off the charts. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Darrell Green Fan

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

I bring it up because I’ve seen the “we aren’t 1 piece away argument” floated as the reason we shouldn’t.  That’s not a good reason to not acquire a stud 25 yr old QB.

I don't think it's the fanbase that is concerned about being one piece away.  Of course we'd prefer to have a franchise QB in the bag and work on the roster from there.  It's about what the player wants.  When you are talking about giving up the type of resources, resources we have less of than others, you want to get a player that covets you the same as you covet them.

[Skinsinparadise]

Kirk to SF is a hot one today.  If that frees Jimmy G, I'd much rather have Carr if I had to choose. 

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If the dude is supposedly interested in going to the Jets or Dolphins -- IMO our roster stacks well with either one.

I agree, but if there is any truth to those rumors - I'd imagine it's along the lines of playing in NY = tons of opportunity to make a boatload of money and in Miami, it's the weather and lack of state income tax.  

[bakedtater1]

So would Rivera send Houston what they want?..a couple firsts and a couple defensive players?..this years first next years first and second and Payne and matt i?..or sweat and settle?..look for things to heat up is my guess

[tmandoug1]

29 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

If Ron was high on Heineke he would have brought him in much sooner. After Alex was not available for the playoff run his options were literally Heineke and Montez, obviously Heineke was the correct choice for that particular game but that's all it shows.  

So then Heiny almost beats a defense that destroyed the Packers.....I don't know man......but it will be fun to watch. I love underdogs always have.

[bakedtater1]

I would not want to see our d linemen go..any of them matt I is awesome but injured often..we drafted payne(and matt as well)in the first I'd like for him to build with this team...and sweat is a beast..I'd hate to see him go as well

[mhd24]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Kirk to SF is a hot one today.  If that frees Jimmy G, I'd much rather have Carr if I had to choose. 

 

 

 

 

 

If SF was unwilling to trade #12 for Stafford, what would Minny want?  They have no QB depth.

 

I could see #12+2021 2nd+2022 2nd+Jimmy G for Kirk+#14

 

Vikings move up a couple of slots in the draft, get a 2nd rounder (which they lost in the Yannik trade), and a future 2nd.

[Capt'n Obvious]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Kirk to SF is a hot one today.  If that frees Jimmy G, I'd much rather have Carr if I had to choose. 

 

 

 

 

 

Could be something similar to the DET/LA deal with Jimmy being included in the package back to Minnesota.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don't think it's the fanbase that is concerned about being one piece away.  Of course we'd prefer to have a franchise QB in the bag and work on the roster from there.  It's about what the player wants.  When you are talking about giving up the type of resources, resources we have less of than others, you want to get a player that covets you the same as you covet them.

Let’s not create reasons that we really dont know much about. The teams floated out there just happen to be the teams with the most capital & draft positioning, I dont think that’s a coincidence. None of what you mentioned should stop us from putting in a killer offer to get it done. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work, let’s not sike ourselves out of it over any perceived notions. The offer will speak for itself, and he/team can decide.

[bakedtater1]

And all this talk about not having enough talent on the o for a good qb to want to come here is far fetched..logan thomas had a big year..a. gibson was bad ass..terrymthegem is good..a wr in free agency and a good qb and look out.

[Blanka]

Kirk going to SF would be great for us. I would then peg Jimmy G to NE. Knocks out 2 QB teams in front of us in draft and takes a Watson suitor in SF out of the picture. If we decided to go that route.