Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Blanka]

Edit: seen the breer post was already posted

Edited February 1, 2021 by Blanka
Already posted

[CjSuAvE22]

19 minutes ago, RWJ said:

See above post and twitter link.  It may mean nothing to you but maybe it might.

Here is what we supposedly offered for Stafford and other teams as well:

 

https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1356109133221683202?s=20

Lol hardly a third of the league...smh

[Burgundy Yoda]

13 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Lol hardly a third of the league...smh

They should have taken the Panthers trade. The Rams will be picking in the mid 20s in the 2022-2023 drafts imo. 

[Jericho]

34 minutes ago, RWJ said:

For all those who think Carr is not all that:

 

https://twitter.com/tech702mike/status/1356107729798983684?s=20

 

So... that Twitter post says Derek Carr improved a lot between 2014 and 2015. Here it is 2021. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to make of that. 

[CapsSkins]

39 minutes ago, RWJ said:

See above post and twitter link.  It may mean nothing to you but maybe it might.

Here is what we supposedly offered for Stafford and other teams as well:

 

https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1356109133221683202?s=20

 

So according to Breer's MMQB, we offered a 1st and 3rd which is exactly where most of us valued Stafford. But in the end, we lost out for reasons we couldn't really do anything about - namely that 1) the Lions liked getting a starting QB in return in Goff, and 2) the Rams were Stafford's most preferred destination. This was what I figured, actually. I never bought everyone parroting the line that the Rams paid the Lions to take Goff off their hands. Goff isn't a top QB but he's nowhere near as bad as people were saying, and in a couple years the Lions can easily get out of his contract if they want. Most importantly, having Goff means their young receivers can develop with a real QB throwing them the ball.

 

Anyway, I'm not too upset about how things played out. We offered the consensus valuation that made sense for us and simply lost to a team paying a lot more. It happens.

 

But it does show Rivera is aggressive about paying for an upgrade at the position without going crazy.

 

Also one more note about Watson - both his ACL tears came during practice in non-contact situations. Look it's one thing to draft a guy and hope he stays healthy. It's another thing to send 4 firsts for a guy who has proven not to stay healthy. What kind of player would he be after a third ACL tear? I got no idea, but I just think you can't send four 1's for a guy with that level of risk. We literally went through it with RG3.

 

So to me, Plan A is Carr if Gruden will let him go (low probability), Plan B is Dak if he hits FA (low probability), Plan C is Mariota if LV keeps Carr (medium probability), Plan D is signing Trubisky/Tyrod/Fitz, Plan E is trading up for a rookie, Plan F is bringing back Alex at a reduced cap hit to mentor Allen/Heinicke/later round rookie.

[RWJ]

14 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

So... that Twitter post says Derek Carr improved a lot between 2014 and 2015. Here it is 2021. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to make of that. 

PFF ranked them.  I'd give a 1 and 3 for him in a heart beat.  That's me though.  Hope all is well with SIP.  Must have been an early night for him.

[petey hodge]

2 hours ago, 86 Snyder said:

Carr a top 10 quarterback...lol.  Now Ive heard it all.

Yes he is actually.

 

In the AFC......  west

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

So according to Breer's MMQB, we offered a 1st and 3rd which is exactly where most of us valued Stafford. But in the end, we lost out for reasons we couldn't really do anything about - namely that 1) the Lions liked getting a starting QB in return in Goff, and 2) the Rams were Stafford's most preferred destination. This was what I figured, actually. I never bought everyone parroting the line that the Rams paid the Lions to take Goff off their hands. Goff isn't a top QB but he's nowhere near as bad as people were saying, and in a couple years the Lions can easily get out of his contract if they want. Most importantly, having Goff means their young receivers can develop with a real QB throwing them the ball.

 

Anyway, I'm not too upset about how things played out. We offered the consensus valuation that made sense for us and simply lost to a team paying a lot more. It happens.

 

But it does show Rivera is aggressive about paying for an upgrade at the position without going crazy.

 

Also one more note about Watson - both his ACL tears came during practice in non-contact situations. Look it's one thing to draft a guy and hope he stays healthy. It's another thing to send 4 firsts for a guy who has proven not to stay healthy. What kind of player would he be after a third ACL tear? I got no idea, but I just think you can't send four 1's for a guy with that level of risk. We literally went through it with RG3.

 

So to me, Plan A is Carr if Gruden will let him go (low probability), Plan B is Dak if he hits FA (low probability), Plan C is Mariota if LV keeps Carr (medium probability), Plan D is signing Trubisky/Tyrod/Fitz, Plan E is trading up for a rookie, Plan F is bringing back Alex at a reduced cap hit to mentor Allen/Heinicke/later round rookie.

With your plans only, I agree with Plan A and Plan B, if Dak is a FA.  Plan C is fine but think they'd part with Carr before Mariota.  I skip all the other plans and my Plan D is your Plan E.  No other QB plans for me as Smith is finished.  I hope he retires and if he doesn't I hope RR released him.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

Carr is a top 10 QB

[CjSuAvE22]

Carr isnt a top ten qb neither is stafford we are a funny fan base....i hope u guys are ready for the best qb competition weve had since rg and kirk...between heinicke and allen because i cant wait

[FootballZombie]

52 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Second ACL injuries six times more likely after reconstruction, study finds

Source: American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine (AOSSM)

 

Summary: Anterior cruciate ligament reconstruction (ACLR) surgery is a common knee injury procedure, but the overall incidence rate of having to go through it again within 24 months is six times greater than someone who has never had an ACL tear, according to researchers.

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130711084135.htm

 

I think your medical advice is on par with your QB evaluations 😂

 

That specific study covers 2 year outcomes. Not good for the case against Watson as he is well beyond the two year window. I think his 2nd one was in 2017?

 

Not saying he isn't more prone, just saying that article does not provide any information to say Watson is more vulnerable today. This would be the same as saying a person who is recovering from a hip replacement surgery is pick-a-percent more likely to injure their hip

 

 

The idea that someone recovering from an ACL surgery is more susceptible to re-injury during the recovery period is well known, as is the idea that it takes about 2 years for most guys to come all the way back, if they do at all. Sometimes you get freaks (Like AP) but the general idea is it takes 2 years to build back.

 

I have seen many articles that have pointed out how a bad ACL injury is weaker post surgery. I have also seen articles about specific grafts and techniques (there are a bunch) that lead to an increase in strength. I have no idea exactly what process was utilized for either of Watson's surgeries, so I'm not sure your gonna find a study that definitively shows an individuals projected recovery path.

 

I'd personally think he would have to be somewhat more prone, but that is more my personal opinion w/o facts to back it up.

Edited February 1, 2021 by FootballZombie

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Carr isnt a top ten qb neither is stafford we are a funny fan base....i hope u guys are ready for the best qb competition weve had since rg and kirk...between heinicke and allen because i cant wait

You have to be joking about the part after Stafford and Carr.  

Edited February 1, 2021 by RWJ

[CapsSkins]

I firmly believe Carr is in the #10-15 range as far as NFL quarterbacks.

 

Here are the guys I'd take over him all things considered in no particular order:

 

Mahomes

Rodgers

Lamar

Josh Allen

Kyler

Russell Wilson

Brady

Deshaun Watson

Dak

Herbert

Tannehill

Stafford - thanks cjsuave

 

So that puts him at #13. You can quibble about Baker Mayfield, so maybe he's 14. I'd take Carr over Matt Ryan at this point. Who else is left? Joe Burrow hasn't played enough. Kirk is Kirk (or Kurt). Goff? Trubisky? Brees and Rivers are gone. Cam is washed. Roethlisberger looks washed. Teddy? Daniel Jones? Lol.  I legit cannot believe it's controversial to say Carr is a top 10 to top 15 QB right now. 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by CapsSkins

[Burgundy Yoda]

6 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

I firmly believe Carr is in the #10-15 range as far as NFL quarterbacks.

 

Here are the guys I'd take over him all things considered in no particular order:

 

Mahomes

Rodgers

Lamar

Josh Allen

Kyler

Russell Wilson

Brady

Deshaun Watson

Dak

Herbert

Tannehill

 

So that puts him at #12. You can quibble about Baker Mayfield, so maybe he's 13. I'd take Carr over Matt Ryan at this point. Who else is left? Joe Burrow hasn't played enough. Kirk is Kirk (or Kurt). Goff? Trubisky? Brees and Rivers are gone. Cam is washed. Roethlisberger looks washed. Teddy? Daniel Jones? Lol.  I legit cannot believe it's controversial to say Carr is a top 10 to top 15 QB right now. 

 

*Heinicke

[CjSuAvE22]

4 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

 

Mahomes

Rodgers

Lamar

Josh Allen

Kyler

Russell Wilson

Brady

Deshaun Watson

Dak

Herbert

Tannehill

 

So that puts him at #12. You can quibble about Baker Mayfield, so maybe he's 13. I'd take Carr over Matt Ryan at this point. Who else is left? Joe Burrow hasn't played enough. Kirk is Kirk (or Kurt). Goff? Trubisky? Brees and Rivers are gone. Cam is washed. Roethlisberger looks washed. Teddy? Daniel Jones? Lol.  I legit cannot believe it's controversial to say Carr is a top 10 to top 15 QB right now. 

 

Heres the problem ...Berger Stafford Cousins and Ryan are all better than Carr, that puts him roughly 16-20 and no we cant trade a first round pick for that...but if we can have carr for a 3rd rounder i wouldnt be opposed to it

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Heres the problem ...Berger Stafford Cousins and Ryan are all better than Carr, that puts him roughly 16-20 and no we cant trade a first round pick for that...but if we can have carr for a 3rd rounder i wouldnt be opposed to it

 

Disagree on Big Ben, Kirk and Ryan. Stafford is already in my list. Carr to me is no worse than the 13th best QB in the league. And arguably #10 depending on Dak's post-injury ability and Brady's continued aging.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

For all those who think Carr is not all that:

 

https://twitter.com/tech702mike/status/1356107729798983684?s=20

Very excited over here that Carr got markedly better between 2014 and 2015, thank you. 

[Conn]

^^^that was sarcasm, @RWJ

[CjSuAvE22]

12 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Disagree on Big Ben, Kirk and Ryan. Stafford is already in my list. Carr to me is no worse than the 13th best QB in the league. And arguably #10 depending on Dak's post-injury ability and Brady's continued aging.

Big Ben Had his team at 10-0 coming off tommy john has won a super bowl cousins has led a team 4 times to the playoffs and been relevant in december more times than carr has, Its laughable you think Carr>Ryan, and i didnt see stafford in your list.

 

 

On a more serious situation...Smith is acting like he wants to play....,are we seriously gonna keep him around like what more do we owe him at this point 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by CjSuAvE22

[RWJ]

11 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

^^^that was sarcasm, @RWJ

Well then, let me take my like away, then.  😆

[Rufus T Firefly]

16 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Disagree on Big Ben, Kirk and Ryan. Stafford is already in my list. Carr to me is no worse than the 13th best QB in the league. And arguably #10 depending on Dak's post-injury ability and Brady's continued aging.

This is true- if you decide that eh older guys are gonna be worse, the younger guys don't get better, the injured guys don't recover, don't count the guys who were playing last year who might not next year and don't count the rookies who will play next year, you can make a case that Carr is the 10th best QB in the league.

 

Still wouldn't be right, but at least you could make that case.

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Big Ben Had his team at 10-0 coming off tommy john has won a super bowl cousins has led a team 4 times to the playoffs and been relevant in december more times than carr has, Its laughable you think Carr>Ryan, and i didnt see stafford in your list.

 

D'oh! You're right - forgot to type Stafford but meant to include him. So he's at worst 14 IMO.

 

Big Ben didn't look like he could stretch the field at all plus he's 38 and a statue in the pocket. Can't move at all anymore. Matt Ryan is more consistent but less mobile and 37 years old, plus way more expensive (not that we were talking contracts granted). Kirk is a choker and stats-wise puts up very similar numbers to Carr. I could see someone going either way but they're mostly the same guy.

 

So in the 10-15 area depending on how you view a few guys in that range. Tannehill gets an asterisk because who knows how good he'd be without Derrick Henry. Dak gets an asterisk bc who knows how he looks after his injury. Stafford gets an asterisk bc who knows how he holds up as he gets older w/ the back injury history. Brady gets an asterisk bc he's almost 45 years old for christ's sake, who knows how he holds up with that weird ass diet of his.

1 minute ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

This is true- if you decide that eh older guys are gonna be worse, the younger guys don't get better, the injured guys don't recover, don't count the guys who were playing last year who might not next year and don't count the rookies who will play next year, you can make a case that Carr is the 10th best QB in the league.

 

Still wouldn't be right, but at least you could make that case.

 

I said in the thread he was in the 10-15 range and then used top 10 as shorthand. When I listed guys out, I think Carr is solidly somewhere between 10-15. In no circumstance do I think he falls past 15, and I think in the most generous circumstance he lands at around 10.

[RWJ]

10 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Big Ben Had his team at 10-0 coming off tommy john has won a super bowl cousins has led a team 4 times to the playoffs and been relevant in december more times than carr has, Its laughable you think Carr>Ryan, and i didnt see stafford in your list.

 

 

On a more serious situation...Smith is acting like he wants to play....,are we seriously gonna keep him around like what more do we owe him at this point 

 

 

RR needs to talk to him and ask him to retire and go out on his own OR RR needs to release him.  One or the other.

 

1 minute ago, RWJ said:

Well then, let me take my like away, then.  😆

Hold on, now.  Are you for or against Carr signing for a 1 &3.  I thought you were and gave you a like because of it.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

3 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

I said in the thread he was in the 10-15 range and then used top 10 as shorthand. 

Yeah, you said something ridiculous and now are pretending your words meant something different.

6 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

When I listed guys out, I think Carr is solidly somewhere between 10-15. In no circumstance do I think he falls past 15, and I think in the most generous circumstance he lands at around 10.

I would literally have trouble taking anyone's football knowledge seriously if they try to tell me they consider Carr a top 10 QB. 15th is arguable,. I would disagree, but wouldn't consider it laughable. 

[CjSuAvE22]

13 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

 

 

So in the 10-15 area depending on how you view a few guys in that range. Tannehill gets an asterisk because who knows how good he'd be without Derrick Henry. Dak gets an asterisk bc who knows how he looks after his injury. Stafford gets an asterisk bc who knows how he holds up as he gets older w/ the back injury history. Brady gets an asterisk bc he's almost 45 years old for christ's sake, who knows how he holds up with that weird ass diet of his.

 

Fair enough in a perfect world i wish we had a top 15 qb on the roster that we dont need to give up draft capital for... but since allen couldnt see kirk could play football here we are...lets see what happens im hoping we just get lucky and snag a dak or russell wilson in this years draft in a later round seems crazy but i never thought we would be hosting a playoff game first year after bruce dbag left the organization 

Edited February 1, 2021 by CjSuAvE22