Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[mhd24]

We don't have the assets for going after Deshaun.  Either he's a Texan, or he's a Dolphin (I'd think the trade would be Tua+3+18).

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

3 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

For Watson, I would think it would take three 1st round picks, Montez Sweat or Daron Payne and likely one of our 3rd round picks this year. Seems like a lot but Houston should be asking for a lot. Best part of this is that we have the defensive line depth to move a defensive tackle for sure so losing Payne wouldn't hurt like losing Sweat would. We could even offer Payne and Settle along with the picks and still be fine. Heck, we could offer Payne and Ion with two 1st round picks and a 3rd and we'd still be fine....Not sure if Houston would do it but we could afford that no problem. Just plug in through free agency and the draft. I would bet Houston would want Sweat over Payne though but who knows....fun to speculate for sure.

 

We do not need to give up multiple first round picks for another ****ing QB.  Haven't y'all learned our lesson when we did that with the Rams?

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I mean of course they'll ASK for that but they don't have leverage. Everyone knows Watson wants out. We could probably negotiate it down to 2 1sts and like Daron Payne.

He's signed through 2025, he has zero leverage.   They can also franchise tag him after that.  Why do y'all want to give up multiple first round picks for another ****ing QB?  

[tmandoug1]

4 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

What exactly is everyones infatuation with Matt Stafford...are these the same people that think Alex Smith was good??? Matt Stafford is an average  qb....at 32 his win to loss ratio is extremely poor yeah he can throw a football but can he win games...clearly he cannot, i dont see him adding more value to this team the way potential players can in terms of draft picks we would have to give up to get him

Uhhhhh..he plays In Detroit....maybe that may have something to do with winning. 

[bearrock]

2 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

You have to subtract the signing bonus from the cap hit.  The signing bonus stays on the books for the Texans.  So even without restructuring, that's 34.5, 37, 32, and 26.5. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by bearrock

[Est.1974]

Very good QBs tend to cost a lot. Comes with the territory.

[Anselmheifer]

Ya'll are tripping. You don't think the difference between Watson and Stafford is two 1sts? He's a top 5 QB and is 8 years younger than Stafford. This team with Watson, Allen Robinson, and a MLB is a SB team. Make the move. 

Edit: I was just looking at the Chase Young thread and thought that it isn't inconceivable in 2-3 years, that if we signed Watson, that we'd have the best offensive player in the league, at the most important position, and the best defensive player in the league, also at a critically important position. Watson is an MVP caliber player. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Anselmheifer

[sjinhan]

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

We don't have the assets for going after Deshaun.  Either he's a Texan, or he's a Dolphin (I'd think the trade would be Tua+3+18).

 

I think you would have to trade something like 3 firsts + Allen + Sweat or something of that scale

 

However, I will go on the record saying that I would prefer Stafford.  Yes, Deshaun is better than Stafford but Stafford + those assets you didnt have to give up for Deshaun might put us in better position to win.

 

Minus Stafford, there isnt an another QB that might be on the market that I would be interested in over giving up king's random for Deshaun.

Edited January 21, 2021 by sjinhan

[JoggingGod]

1 hour ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

Why do y'all want to give up multiple first round picks for another ****ing QB?

Because this QB is arguably top 5 and is just 25 years old. All 4 of the remaining teams right now have upper echolon QBs playing for them.

[Anselmheifer]

 

1 hour ago, sjinhan said:

I would let Scherff walk if the asking price is gets too high.   He is great to have around but replaceable.   I would rather use the cap space to ensure we definitely solve LB, WR, CB, and QB holes or perhaps try to extend Allen or Payne early first before spending big on Scherff

 

The percentage of people here hesitant to spend 30 million on a QB but definitely ready to spend 15 million on a guard is mind boggling. The benefit per dollar spent is sooooo far tilted toward the 30 million QB. For those worried about the Watson cap hit, I'd rather let Scherff go and pay Watson and a 3rd round pick at OG. 

 

[RedskinsFanInSanAntonio]

You are crazy if you don’t Watson on this team even giving up 3 first round picks. We are picking probably late 20’s. Hopefully 30’s with Watson on this team. Want him miles over Stafford and I like Stafford.

[XxSpearheadxX]

You get Watson. 

[ultravin]

i like what i'm seeing with taylor, even when he played the last part of the panthers game as well as the playoff game against the bucs.  i like how he has pocket awareness and knows when to run.  the way he played, reminded me of russell's rookie year with the seahawks. watching his games during college, the dude won the "other" heisman-like award for ODU.  what i don't want to happen is give away draft picks to these old qbacks.  if they were to get a vet, get someone that's a free agent, not one with a contract.  Team as 4 picks in the 1st 3 rounds!  they can get some really good players with those picks, especially in the offense.  as much as i would like to get Watson, it'll cost too much!  if the texans would have kept their coach, i'd give a bag of peanuts for him.

 

[Est.1974]

Looks to me like Rivera continues to want experienced people around him that he is familiar with.
 

We really should not discount all this discussion ending in a 2 or 3 year deal for Cam.

[PartyPosse]

4 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Ya'll are tripping. You don't think the difference between Watson and Stafford is two 1sts? He's a top 5 QB and is 8 years younger than Stafford. This team with Watson, Allen Robinson, and a MLB is a SB team. Make the move. 

Edit: I was just looking at the Chase Young thread and thought that it isn't inconceivable in 2-3 years, that if we signed Watson, that we'd have the best offensive player in the league, at the most important position, and the best defensive player in the league, also at a critically important position. Watson is an MVP caliber player. 

And we’d still have corners that get burned on every double move so it’s all moot.

3 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

 

The percentage of people here hesitant to spend 30 million on a QB but definitely ready to spend 15 million on a guard is mind boggling. The benefit per dollar spent is sooooo far tilted toward the 30 million QB. For those worried about the Watson cap hit, I'd rather let Scherff go and pay Watson and a 3rd round pick at OG. 

 

We may not have another third round pick for the next 8 years if we get Watson.

[BC-Redskins]

Now I don’t think Watson does get traded but what if three teams were involved and would you be happy with this from us !!!!

 

WFT > trades 1st to Miami for TUA

Miami > trades 3 2020 1st + change for Watson 

Texans have 3 1st plus from miami

 

would you take TUA ???

[TheShredder]

6 hours ago, sjinhan said:

 

I think you would have to trade something like 3 firsts + Allen + Sweat or something of that scale

 

However, I will go on the record saying that I would prefer Stafford.  Yes, Deshaun is better than Stafford but Stafford + those assets you didnt have to give up for Deshaun might put us in better position to win.

 

Minus Stafford, there isnt an another QB that might be on the market that I would be interested in over giving up king's random for Deshaun.

Can't survive in the salary cap era giving away multiple 1st round picks for years unless you were ready to win a SB the year you made the deal.  That's what an all-in move looks like and you're not in a position to win moving forward.  Taking the Stafford route definitely gives you more chances at the ring. 

16 minutes ago, BC-Redskins said:

Now I don’t think Watson does get traded but what if three teams were involved and would you be happy with this from us !!!!

 

WFT > trades 1st to Miami for TUA

Miami > trades 3 2020 1st + change for Watson 

Texans have 3 1st plus from miami

 

would you take TUA ???

Tua for the 19th pick, deal. 

[Silvernon]

Y'all are crazy with this Watson talk. For a franchise that went through the aftermath of a huge haul for RGIII, you would think we would be gun shy more than most. 

 

I don't see him as a top 5 QB. So, you handcuff the team of high-value resources (picks and cap) and need Watson to do it largely on his own. Recipe for disaster, imo. 

 

Combine that with Mayhew joining the WFT and it seems obvious that Stafford is going to be the guy. With a proven starter who has helped receivers put up monster years, that does change the tune for free agents.

 

It's a unique opportunity. I think Stafford has 3-5 good years left. He, or Newton, have a high probability of being brought in to facilitate other signings and try to win now.

 

Stafford/Newton

Robinson

David/Wright

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, BC-Redskins said:

WFT > trades 1st to Miami for TUA

 

Hard Pass

 

The second you see MIA shopping Tua, you know MIA is going after another QB. That would tank Tua's value.

 

Even without that, Tua has not been very good, and has yet to play a full season so I still have many of the same injury concerns. He is not worth a 1st rounder on that front either.

 

A 2, I'll think about it. No way on earth I'm giving up a 1 for him at this stage. Tua is not a QB that can take advantage of this roster and win games right now

Edited January 21, 2021 by FootballZombie

[KDawg]

I think it’s clear that many of you think this roster is in overall better shape than I do... and it has the ability to stay better for a long time without significant draft choices in the first or second round. 
 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Draft Network's take for the Qb spot for the Colts

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/indianapolis-colts-qb-future-philip-rivers-retirement

 

Unless Dak Prescott somehow escapes Dallas, Brissett may be the best free-agent passer among the veteran options: Mitchell Trubisky, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Andy Dalton, Tyrod Taylor, Cam Newton. If the Colts want to attack 2021 with the same gusto of 2020, they need to look beyond the free agent market. They need to look at trades.

 

Of course, when quarterbacks are on the trade market, it’s usually because they aren’t perfect. The best quarterback that might come available for trade this season is Matthew Stafford, a Riversian figure in that he’s always played better than his gross stats and win/loss column might indicate. Unlike Rivers, who at times curtailed the Indianapolis offense with his diminished arm strength, Stafford is still slinging that thing around the yard—and for that reason, it seems unlikely that Detroit might trade him, even with a new head coach and general manager looking over a long rebuild ahead of them.

 

If Stafford is available, sure. Go for it! But if the best option is Jimmy Garoppolo, who wasn’t enough for even Kyle Shanahan’s QB-friendly offense? If the best option is Carson Wentz, whose 2020 season details a broken quarterback bordering on unrecoverable? If the best option is Sam Darnold, who has simply never been successful as an NFL pro? These trade options are better than the free agents, but not by much—and with the draft capital you’d have to send to get them, they invite far more risk.

 

The Colts might like their chances if they run this back. But without Rivers on board with one last go, they may not have a choice but start the clock with a young quarterback.

 

A young quarterback doesn’t make the Colts more likely to win in 2021, unfortunately. But in 2022 and beyond, it can cement them as a perennial contender—not the occasionally plucky team they’ve been for the last few years. With the 21st overall pick, the Colts will need to get creative in grabbing their young passer. The four top quarterbacks of the 2021 NFL Draft figure to be off the board within the first 12 picks, so Ballard would need to make an aggressive trade up—likely including a future first—to get within range of North Dakota State’s Trey Lance or BYU’s Zach Wilson. Alabama’s Mac Jones is considered a potential late-first player—but with Ballard so picky with a future franchise quarterback, it’s tough to imagine him pushing his chips in on him. Could Ballard call the Packers about Jordan Love, a player to whom the Colts were constantly tied to last draft cycle, now that it seems Aaron Rodgers is here to dominate over the late stages of his career?

Whether or not he likes it, Ballard is in a good position to draft a young quarterback. The Rivers and Castonzo retirements, along with several veteran free agent decisions looming, have hurt the Colts’ short-term prospects as a competing team. With his cap space, talented young roster, and solid coaching staff, he has the right environment to develop a rookie passer into a franchise star. 

The issue has been forced. It’s time for Ballard to pull the trigger.

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Capt'n Obvious]

10 hours ago, mhd24 said:

We don't have the assets for going after Deshaun.  Either he's a Texan, or he's a Dolphin (I'd think the trade would be Tua+3+18).

The Jets also seem like a potential landing spot. They have the draft capital to at least put together an interesting offer. Now if Watson would waive his no trade to go there is a different story. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Silvernon said:

Y'all are crazy with this Watson talk. For a franchise that went through the aftermath of a huge haul for RGIII, you would think we would be gun shy more than most. 

 

 

RG3 was 100% unproven.  Watson is 100% proven.  Apples to oranges.  

 

1 hour ago, Silvernon said:

 

 

I don't see him as a top 5 QB. So, you handcuff the team of high-value resources (picks and cap) and need Watson to do it largely on his own. Recipe for disaster, imo. 

 

 

Most NFL observer types do see him as a top 5 Qb.  But yeah if I wasn't that high on him than I'd pass, too.  But to me he's not only top 5 but he's slam dunk easily top 5. 

 

Having said that I think no shot we get him so we are all debating semantics and theory versus reality.  But its still fun.  That's what they are ironically debating this morning on 980.  Fun talk but its likely fantasy.  

 

1 hour ago, Silvernon said:

 

 

Combine that with Mayhew joining the WFT and it seems obvious that Stafford is going to be the guy. With a proven starter who has helped receivers put up monster years, that does change the tune for free agents.

 

 

I've been pushing Stafford a lot.  But its not up to Mayhew as for whether Stafford hits the market that's up to the Lions.  He may hit the market but I'd guess now he doesn't.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

32 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think it’s clear that many of you think this roster is in overall better shape than I do... and it has the ability to stay better for a long time without significant draft choices in the first or second round. 
 

 

Interesting. I haven't been following this too much lately due to a lot of other things going on in my life, but I do agree that we need a lot of upgrades on the roster. I'm not for or against the Watson move or the Stafford move or really any other. They're not my preferred moves but I'm not opposed to them. 

 

I will rehash an argument I made in the post-RG3 trade. It was that I was in favor of the trade because it was for a lock at QB (yeah shows how much I know). We would be without first rounders for a few years but with good drafting we can still do well and address our needs. In the next year we got Murphy, Moses and Long and Breeland in the draft in 2014. Better drafting could have gotten us Lawrence, Moses and Breeland. 2013 was a horrible draft but we picked Amerson when we could have gotten Collins or Swearinger, we got Reed in the third. got Thomas when we could have gotten a T or DE, got Thompson in the 5th, and could have picked a number of players over Rambo in the 6th. 

 

Point being that trading draft picks isn't the end all be all of a bad draft. I liked the post RG3 years as a strategy because since Bruce was hired we had a strategy of having more draft picks. The fact that we didn't have first rounders wasn't as bad because we still had 9 picks in 2012, 7 in 2013, and 8 in 2014. This is one of the reasons I'm so big on being able to find gems in the late round picks. We also were able to find contributors like Chris Baker, Kai Forbath, William Compton, and Nick Williams. 

 

Its definitely not a foolproof plan, but the option of suring up the QB position is not something that I think should be easily ignored. I'm more hesitant because of what we saw with RG3. Things like injury concerns initially and play style later and limitations in offensive systems were a big problem. I wasn't a fan of the Brunell, McNabb, and Smith trades because they were older and we could see them entering their senior citizen years as an NFL QB. But also I thought that for what we were going to get from them we could get from what we had in House (Ramsey, Campbell, Cousins). But I noted that in a game thread that the playmaking ability and the ability to scramble for a first down and keep a play alive is something we saw from McNabb and didn't see from Campbell enough. That said, I (and many) thought we got similar if not better production from Grossman as McNabb. 

 

What does this have to do with Stafford and Watson? I think we can address the holes on our roster and still get these guys, especially if our retooled front office has any power. And I'm ignoring the importance of FAs and the possibility of doing well there. I think it can be done. I'm not necessarily a proponent of it but if they deem Watson worthwhile I don't think its such a hindrance. 

[KDawg]

Honestly if there’s anything that this Watson push is doing in my eyes it’s making Stafford a more attractive option. I think it’s crazy to even think about giving up three 1s, a couple 2s and a player. I think it’s crazy to think the cost won’t be that much, too, if he’s a top 5 QB at 25 years old as people keep saying. Oh and a 30M + cap hit to top it off.

 

If were inclined to trade for a QB like that Stafford is a better option for keeping our team somewhat in tact and being able to add pieces this offseason... and the next one... and the next one.

 

”if we get Watson and ARob we’re going to be nasty!”

 

Maybe. They’re both excellent at what they do. Top end talents at their positions. But Watson had Nuke and they never got to the Super Bowl. They had JJ Watt on D and never got there. 
 

And if we get Watson and ARob that’s close to 40M in cap space between the two of them (if you can get their hits down to 30 and 10, if it’s 40 and 20 it’s 60M). 
 

We still have Scherff and Darby to sign plus ILB, OT among other spots. And we wouldn’t have the draft capital to plug holes. 
 

I just can’t get beyond it being a major mistake despite how awesome Watson is. 
 

It seems like a desperation move that the old Redskins would have made and then set us back 5 years. 
 

We’re finally building it the right way. I am an advocate for using draft capital to move up in the draft and get your franchise guy if you can, not using it on someone else’s players and not benefitting at all from the rookie contract.

 

I am now really hoping they hire Bieniemy and this situation resolves itself. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]