Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, RWJ said:

If Dak were to hit FA I can see the Skins going full steam ahead and be the leading team to sign him but Jerrah is not going to let that happen.  We all know that.  

 

Agree.

 

8 hours ago, RWJ said:

 Watson is a pipe dream.  

 

Agree.

 

8 hours ago, RWJ said:

IWe don't want to mortgage our future on Watson with several 1st rounders and a Sweat as part of the deal.  We have too many holes to fill.  

 

100% disagree but the option won't present itself so its a moot point.

8 hours ago, RWJ said:

 I see them moving up in the 1st round for one of the 4 top QBs in the draft whether that be using their #19 on a player and trading back into the 1st or using the #19 and adding a 3rd rounder and a pick in 2022 like a 2nd round pick to get their guy in the first round.  All speculation at this time. 

 

They could try.  It might work I'd bet against it though.  I'd shoot them down if I am a trading partner like lets say Miami at #3 or the Jets at #2 why would I want to trade that far down when I can likely get a top 10 picking team willing to make a similar trade, so many teams wanting a QB who pick ahead of us in this draft.  Then if we are talking about Lance, I keep reading that Carolina badly wants a QB.  Maybe Atlanta, Denver, too why would they pass him over?

 

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

I hope so...not the Colts part but Stafford wanting out.  Finlay just on saying "by a mile" QB pursuit is top on their agenda (the way he said I couldn't tell if that was his thought or what he was hearing) but he goes it won't be easy.  He thinks they are in on Watson if he hits the trade market.  He doesn't think Stafford is traded.    Sheehan wants Darnold, thinks it wouild take more than a 2nd rounder to get him but suggests he would go get him anyway -- I often agree with Sheehan but wow do I disagree with on that.

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Lions reporter just on 980, he's a big Stafford guy, said the team has been just about entirely on his shoulders.   They usually had no running game, bad defense, etc.

 

He can see them trading him but leans toward thinking they'd keep him.   He said he would be lining up to make a deal for him. 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[JoggingGod]

Darnold is worth a 3rd rounder at best right now. If anyone gives up a 2nd PLUS they are high.

[HigSkin]

Kimberly Martin who has covered the Jets and on Get Up this morning said Sam Darnold should not renew his home lease in NY.  LOL

[Thinking Skins]

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As Arians said he rejected our record, saying it was much better than that because Haskins was no longer the QB.  Haskins was the 34th ranked out of 35 QBs via PFF.  He was horrendous.  We had no shot with him in games like the Browns one (where he single handily just about lost it for us) and the Panthers game.    We saw how Heinicke lit up that same defense that Haskins struggled with.

As true as this is, he was commenting more on how challenging we would be as a playoff team. If we had played Smith for 16 games or Heinicke for 16 games we may very well have been a 12-4 team but we didn't. There's a famous quote that says you are what your record says you are. We made the choice to play Haskins. At one point he was considered the best QB on the team. Rivera said he won the QB competition (or would have won if he had one). He received all the first team snaps. But lets not get back to the blame game on Haskins because I've said all along that my problem with this team is that we were a young team that makes young team mistakes, like the offsides by Chase Young in the Detroit game in their go ahead scoring drive on third down. We had quite a few of those. Similarly we had quite a few unnecessary rougness penalites, quite a few illegal contact penalites, and we could never stop a running game when we needed to. Those are all things that were problems for us all year and something that Tampa exploited to beat us. 

 

I'm not saying that we didn't play well this year but I'm not going to put this team in the history books as one of the greatest ever. We made some notable improvements from 2019 but in a one on one game vs a team like the Texans I'm not sure I'm going to just say that we automatically win that. It depends on if its a game of the September WFT vs the January WFT (and the September Texans vs the January Texans). It depends on who is healthy on both teams. At one point we were both 4-7. From there they lost 5 straight and we went 3-2. I think we are very similar teams. They lost to the Colts, Bears, Colts, Bengals and Titans on that stretch. Thats 4 playoff teams down the stretch. We were building momentum at that time and they were collapsing from having their coach fired and hitting a brutal part of their schedule. 

 

Remember, we almost lost to the Eagles so its not like its a shoe in. 

[KDawg]

42 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Darnold is worth a 3rd rounder at best right now. If anyone gives up a 2nd PLUS they are high.

Giving up a third rounder for him is asinine.

[Chump Bailey]

Trey Lance has my vote for now

[Warhead36]

Darnold is damaged goods. He needs to go somewhere he can sit and learn for a year and where a more proven system can build him back up. He'd be perfect in New Orleans but they need a starter now too.

[Skinsinparadise]

49 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

As true as this is, he was commenting more on how challenging we would be as a playoff team.

 

And Tampa proceeded to blow us out of the water proving that Arians' rhetoric was just that rhetoric? 

 

The Haskins stuff to me is off.   Rivera flat out admitted recently he shouldn't have just given him the job without competition.  He wanted to see what Haskins had.  It wasn't him telling the world that Haskins was the best Qb on the roster at that time.   You among others didn't think he was given enough time regardless of his struggles.  That's cool but Haskins stunk.  It wouldn't have been as bad with Alex or Allen and Arians was simply making that point.  

Edited January 22, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

If the Lions can trade Staffoed to the AFC, they’ll do it.  One thing to keep in mind is that Martin Mayhew drafted Stafford

[Est.1974]

I think we will trade for Jimmy G as the 49ers want rid of his contract. We’ll have discussed it already as part of the GM conversations. Just waiting on Alex Smith to make his mind up then the news breaks.

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I think we will trade for Jimmy G as the 49ers want rid of his contract. We’ll have discussed it already as part of the GM conversations. Just waiting on Alex Smith to make his mind up then the news breaks.

Jimmy G may not even be an upgrade to Allen and Heinicke. 

[Wayne_Millner]

What if we really tried but couldn’t get Watson, because our efforts motivated Jerry Jones to sign Dak, and then trade him and some draft picks for Watson?

 

😳

[Est.1974]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Jimmy G may not even be an upgrade to Allen and Heinicke. 

He may not. Seems like he has a 2021 no trade clause which is why Shanahan keeps saying he’ll be their starter. 
 

Wouldnt surprise me though. 

[Thinking Skins]

57 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

And Tampa proceeded to blow us out of the water proving that Arians' rhetoric was just that rhetoric? 

 

The Haskins stuff to me is off.   Rivera flat out admitted recently he shouldn't have just given him the job without competition.  He wanted to see what Haskins had.  It wasn't him telling the world that Haskins was the best Qb on the roster at that time.   You among others didn't think he was given enough time regardless of his struggles.  That's cool but Haskins stunk.  It wouldn't have been as bad with Alex or Allen and Arians was simply making that point.  

Tampa didn't blow us out of the water. We lost by 8 with a chance to tie it on our last drive. 

 

We can disagree on the Haskins stuff but Rivera started Haskins at the beginning of the season. He said what he should have done but he did what he did. He should have also played Everett or Reaves at FS or Curl at SS or Wes S at LG or Lucas at LT but he didn't. Maybe if we had a preseason and more competitions we would have done differently but we fielded the team we fielded. We were a 4-7 team that went to the playoffs. That's the truth. It is what it is. We are a middle of the pack team. We can compete with some of the better teams (Tampa) but can also get beat by some of the worse (Giants, Carolina, almost Philly). 

 

I didn't buy into Ron's "lets win the division" because I feared he would put in a bunch of aging vets instead of playing our youth. But aside from Smith, this wasn't really the case. He did play guys like Lucas, Everett, Wes S and Thomas but they're not really old so it wasn't as bad as it would have been if we had brought in some 33 or 34 year olds to make that final push. But I'm not here to argue about Haskins, I've let that go. Can you not accept that a 7-9 team is not a world beater? That's all I'm saying. I'm saying we're not that much better than a 4-12 team? And heads up we could lose to them just like we lost to a 5-11 team and a 6-10 team twice. 

[CTskins]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Jimmy G may not even be an upgrade to Allen and Heinicke. 

None of the three are the answer.

 

It seemed evident in the Super Bowl that the 49ers don't trust Jimmy G.

 

Allen is a back-up at best, and as well as Heinicke played vs. Tampa, there is really no book on him. Could he be the next Kurt Warner? Anything is possible. I wouldn't bet on it and would like there to be a Plan B. I love the strategy of a young A-list, Blue chip Defense, but I'd start looking for a QB in round 2 not named Mac Jones. He's had every advantage at Alabama. Washington is a team on the come and who knows if he can take his lumps. Maybe take another QB in the later rounds. A Name FA puts the organization in cap he11 in two years and a JAG is just that (Just another Guy.).

[Rskins91]

The more I look at how QB situations are around the league, the more convinced I am that overpayment for the position is necessary.

 

There are only a few options that I'd find are worth the overpayment: Watson, Stafford, and Prescott. If we can get either of them, then we have solved the QB problem for at least a couple of years. The issue is, you will have to trade away/pay a lot of money for them. But when you look at the "budget" options, you have to wince in pain a bit.

 

Darnold? He was not the only problem in NY, but he wasn't good by any stretch. Lots of question marks. Mariota? Intriguing, but one good game off the bench against the Dolphins isn't terribly inspiring. Jimmy G? As others have said, I'm not sure he's even better than what we have right now.

 

The draft is also tricky because we probably won't land any of the top 4 guys (Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, or Lance) without further overpaying.

 

If there was ever a time to make money as a scout and GM, it's this year. If you can find a QB in the third round that is in the mold of a Russell Wilson, then that solves a lot of problems. Issue is how rarely that happens.

[FootballZombie]

59 minutes ago, Wayne_Millner said:

What if we really tried but couldn’t get Watson, because our efforts motivated Jerry Jones to sign Dak, and then trade him and some draft picks for Watson?

 

😳

 

Nope

 

Dallas would have to eat Dak's G money as dead cap (which they can not afford as it would easily be 50-60 M)

and Hou can not afford a 40 M QB as they are already over the cap.

 

If they want Watson they would have to stop talking contract with Dak and start talking trades with Hou with what they currently have.

 

Not gonna happen tho, after last season, Dak has more leverage on his team than Watson has on Houston. They HAVE to bring him back. Jerry has admitted as such

[wit33]

Back and forth with wanting the team to go all in on Stafford. From afar he seems to be a bit of an enigma. He’s never consistently led his team to being an above average scoring offense. Outside of 2011 (#4) and 2017 #8 his teams offense from a points per game standpoint were bottom 15 and often in the 20s. I probably give the points per game stat more value than most, especially over a career, because I place a great deal of responsibility on the shoulders of a highly paid QB to produce points or some other variables that contribute to winning. Most agree Stafford has played on poor teams for much of his career, but that shouldn’t preclude him from scoring points at a higher clip, IMO. Just thought he’d have more years in the top half and flirting with top 10.
 

With that said, not sure how the points per game stats relate to other guys in the top 12 or so over last 5 years. 

15 minutes ago, Rskins91 said:

The more I look at how QB situations are around the league, the more convinced I am that overpayment for the position is necessary.

 

There are only a few options that I'd find are worth the overpayment: Watson, Stafford, and Prescott. If we can get either of them, then we have solved the QB problem for at least a couple of years. The issue is, you will have to trade away/pay a lot of money for them. But when you look at the "budget" options, you have to wince in pain a bit.

 

Darnold? He was not the only problem in NY, but he wasn't good by any stretch. Lots of question marks. Mariota? Intriguing, but one good game off the bench against the Dolphins isn't terribly inspiring. Jimmy G? As others have said, I'm not sure he's even better than what we have right now.

 

The draft is also tricky because we probably won't land any of the top 4 guys (Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, or Lance) without further overpaying.

 

If there was ever a time to make money as a scout and GM, it's this year. If you can find a QB in the third round that is in the mold of a Russell Wilson, then that solves a lot of problems. Issue is how rarely that happens.

Yes, you over pay the elite. That’s it. 

[KDawg]

If we insist on a bigger name, of the three major ones we’ve heard this is the order I’d rank them:

 

Watson

Dak

Stafford

 

 

this is the order I’d prefer them (including the trade package and salary cap ramifications)

 

Dak

Stafford

Grand Canyon Crevice

Watson

Edited January 22, 2021 by KDawg

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Starting to think things are lining up for Stafford to come here if it is true he has no interest in returning. That said, I would think the Colts would be our biggest competition to land him, and if the Lions are forced to make a trade they might prefer to send him to the AFC, but at the end of the day it might not be a priority for them as much as compensation would be.

 

If Stafford is our QB next year I'm stoked.

 

I see Garropolo going to NE if anything. Bill knows he can get the best out of him. He isn't mobile enough for our offense IMO.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I'm sure a new deal would need to be struck for Stafford, but the Lions would eat $19m if they were to trade him away (freeing up $14m in the process).

 

I thnk that would leave a $14m cap hit for WFT in 2021. Followed by $26m in 2022.

 

I am a bit leary of a major extension for an older QB after what we just went through with Alex Smith. But I assume you get an extension done that increases his guaranteed moneys in 2022 and beyond. Maybe a 3 year, $100m extension to take him through his Age 37 season? Keep 2021 and 2022 cap hits fairly reasonable.

[wit33]

7 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I'm sure a new deal would need to be struck for Stafford, but the Lions would eat $19m if they were to trade him away (freeing up $14m in the process).

 

I thnk that would leave a $14m cap hit for WFT in 2021. Followed by $26m in 2022.

 

I am a bit leary of a major extension for an older QB after what we just went through with Alex Smith. But I assume you get an extension done that increases his guaranteed moneys in 2022 and beyond. Maybe a 3 year, $100m extension to take him through his Age 37 season? Keep 2021 and 2022 cap hits fairly reasonable.

Always fascinating the points of view we all have when looking at a situation: I actually view the Alex Smith deal as a feather in the cap of why it’s okay to sign “older” (whatever that is these days) QBs in today’s NFL. Smith in his mid 30s managed to come back from an injury that would be difficult for a college kid to comeback from and he managed to provide value post injury. 
 

All about signing the “old dudes”, if the fit and value is present for that current organization. 

[zCommander]

48 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If we insist on a bigger name, of the three major ones we’ve heard this is the order I’d rank them:

 

Watson

Dak

Stafford

 

 

this is the order I’d prefer them (including the trade package and salary cap ramifications)

 

Dak

Stafford

Grand Canyon Crevice

Watson

 

The kid named Grand Canyon Crevice.... is he a mobile QB like Lamar? is so then yeah definitely in the convo.