Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[max21]

I like the idea of Stafford, he could maybe thrive in new scenery like Tannehill. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, max21 said:

I like the idea of Stafford, he could maybe thrive in new scenery like Tannehill. 

 

Me too but I doubt he hits the market.  

 

If I had to guess it right now the best on the market will be Ryan Fitzpatrick and maybe Philip Rivers. 

[JSSkinz]

I think I would rather have Fitzpatrick over Rivers, I've never been a fan of Rivers, he's a mess in the playoffs.

 

Fitz reminds me of Gannon and Hostetler, seems to be getting better with age.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

You can’t feel great about Fitz being the man, his highs are amazing and his lows are equally amazing.. Rivers for all his playoff woahs has been consistently really really good for a long time, although he’s wholly uninspiring. He looked shot last year, but has solidified the Colts. I wouldn’t feel great about either, but gotta say, Once you accept what Rivers is, he usually gets W’s. Smithesque? Idk. 

[KDawg]

If Alex wants to play, he’s going to very likely be on this roster next year. Maybe he renegotiates his deal, maybe he stays on the same.

 

Kyle Allen will almost certainly be back as well.

 

The third guy will likely be a draft choice or a veteran flyer who is looking for an opportunity. A Jameis Winston, Jacoby Brissett, Mitch Trubisky, Matt Barkley, CJ Beatherd type. And all 3 will compete.

 

If Smith retires, Allen will be the starter moving forward, they’ll likely add a vet in FA and draft a young gun. All will likely compete.

 

This is where a guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cam Newton, Colt McCoy type comes into play.

 

The third option is Smith retires, Allen stays, Haskins stays and they sign a guy like Dak Prescott to be the starter. 
 

I’d prefer option 1 or 2.

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I posted this somewhere else but it belongs more here.  If we just had an above average QB we'd be dangerous.  Alex I think can make this a playoff team but I don't think its an accident his playoff record is 2-5, he's not the type to outduel a hot QB in the playoffs.  More importantly, he's going to be 37 and he doesn't have the mobility he once did.

 

Kyle Allen to me is a wildcard but I don't think he has a big ceiling.  I was not a Haskins guy before the draft and I am not a Haskins guy now.

 

As for veterans though I think the pickings are likely slim.  Maybe Stafford albeit a Lions reporter recently said he expects they bring him back.  Atlanta would take a massive cap hit if they traded Matt Ryan.  So who would be in play otherwise?

 

 

 

 

I'll answer this.......Cam Newton. I would put odds on him being the favorite to be the WFT starting QB next season when he becomes a free agent. RR is not going to be able to resist a healthy Cam Newton...I would hate it but hopefully would come to love it. Haskins will be dealt for pennies on the dollar, Alex will be back and Montez will continue to be groomed for the future. Cam will sign here for 3 years and the draft will be spent on a play making linebacker in round 1. Best TE available in round 2. 

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If Alex wants to play, he’s going to very likely be on this roster next year. Maybe he renegotiates his deal, maybe he stays on the same.

 

Kyle Allen will almost certainly be back as well.

 

The third guy will likely be a draft choice or a veteran flyer who is looking for an opportunity. A Jameis Winston, Jacoby Brissett, Mitch Trubisky, Matt Barkley, CJ Beatherd type. And all 3 will compete.

 

If Smith retires, Allen will be the starter moving forward, they’ll likely add a vet in FA and draft a young gun. All will likely compete.

 

This is where a guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cam Newton, Colt McCoy type comes into play.

 

The third option is Smith retires, Allen stays, Haskins stays and they sign a guy like Dak Prescott to be the starter. 
 

I’d prefer option 1 or 2.

Can't believe I'm saying this but I would prefer option 3. Grabbing Dak in free agency would make us SB contenders in the NFC if we add a WR and keep stacking the defense. No way Dallas lets him get to free agency though. 

33 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

You can’t feel great about Fitz being the man, his highs are amazing and his lows are equally amazing.. Rivers for all his playoff woahs has been consistently really really good for a long time, although he’s wholly uninspiring. He looked shot last year, but has solidified the Colts. I wouldn’t feel great about either, but gotta say, Once you accept what Rivers is, he usually gets W’s. Smithesque? Idk. 

Fitzmagic would be great with our defense....a true gunslinger. 

[KDawg]

Here’s the problem with Dak...

 

1) he goes from loaded offense to... us.

 

2) he is coming off a MAJOR structural injury

 

3) his cap hit WILL handicap our ability to re-sign some of our important players.

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I'll answer this.......Cam Newton. I would put odds on him being the favorite to be the WFT starting QB next season when he becomes a free agent. RR is not going to be able to resist a healthy Cam Newton...I would hate it but hopefully would come to love it. Haskins will be dealt for pennies on the dollar, Alex will be back and Montez will continue to be groomed f

 

Cam looks like he's lost it.  I'd be surprised but will see.

 

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Here’s the problem with Dak...

 

1) he goes from loaded offense to... us.

 

2) he is coming off a MAJOR structural injury

 

3) his cap hit WILL handicap our ability to re-sign some of our important players.

 

Other thing is can we really picture Dallas both letting Dak go and him headed to DC of all places?  Talk about a PR nightmare for Dallas.  It would be like Joey T in his heyday signing on with Dallas and Beathard letting it happen.  I think Dallas' franchises him and they do have the cap room to do it. 

38 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If Alex wants to play, he’s going to very likely be on this roster next year. Maybe he renegotiates his deal, maybe he stays on the same.

 

Kyle Allen will almost certainly be back as well.

 

The third guy will likely be a draft choice or a veteran flyer who is looking for an opportunity. A Jameis Winston, Jacoby Brissett, Mitch Trubisky, Matt Barkley, CJ Beatherd type. And all 3 will compete.

 

If Smith retires, Allen will be the starter moving forward, they’ll likely add a vet in FA and draft a young gun. All will likely compete.

 

This is where a guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cam Newton, Colt McCoy type comes into play.

 

The third option is Smith retires, Allen stays, Haskins stays and they sign a guy like Dak Prescott to be the starter. 
 

I’d prefer option 1 or 2.

 

That's how I see it, too.  I think the idea of Stafford or Matt Ryan or name that veteran being in play is likely a pipe dream.   

for what its worth here's PFF rankings currently.  I've never been a big Fitzpatrick guy but wild how high he's ranked by them right now compared to our guys -- especially Haskins.   Rivers is ranked higher though.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Playoff records

 

Philip Rivers 3-4

Alex Smith 2-5

Ryan Fitzpatrick 0-0

Matt Stafford 0-3

 

[Est.1974]

I’d say option one for Rivera is Smith, Allen, Rookie.

 

Smiths durability must be concern. Would he risk Allen as a number #1 if Smith is done?

 

Cam is the obvious name. He looks washed up in NE.  What about some surprise names to complete, Taylor maybe, Minshew. Go cheap, slowly integrate the rookie?

 

I think Rivera will know this D is the real deal, can’t waste that with below average QB play, but do we need great QB play if it’s just not attainable in 2021?

[ILikeBilly]

I don't understand Kyle Allen being considered.  Coming into this year, he had 3 things going for him.

1) he knew the system.  Well, now Alex, Dwayne and Montez also know the system.

2) He was young and sort of an unknown.  Now we know he is just a guy with a limited ceiling.

3) He was healthy and cheap. Now he is coming off a season ending injury and would need to be resigned.

Alex, Dwayne, Montez, non-first round rookie.  Cut one before season starts.

Vet, Montez or Kyle, non-first round rookie.

Alex, first round (trade up) rookie, one of Kyle, Dwayne, Montez.

 

Peciling in Kyle as next season starter is a momentum killing, fan losing, just plan horrible decision.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Not a bad listen, PFF guy starts talking about the WFT QB situation about half way into this.  In one sense he was depressing when he wonders if the WFT is stuck in QB purgatory and unlikely to threaten winning a SB.  Then he talked about them missing out on the top 3 prospects, says he's hearing Wilson has leapfrogged Fields on a number of boards but then mentions he likes to depth in this draft citing Mac Jones, Trask, Ridder, J. Newman. 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

I think Smith is going to retire.  I could be wrong, but I think he's done what he needed to do to prove to himself he could recover fully, and I think he's going to ask himself if he really wants to go through an entire season again.  He doesn't have to.  And getting nicked up with this calf thing might also factor in, where he thinks he just won't be able to hold up for an entire season.

 

I also think Ron is not going to want to waste this defense with a ho-hum offense.  

 

Kyle Allen will be back.  The question then becomes, do you draft a guy and develop him and turn the reins over to Allen to start, or do you find a legitimate starter.

 

Personally, I don't think Allen can be a 16 game starter.  He doesn't have the arm talent to really pull it off.  He's a great backup, but I don't think you can count on him being the guy.  I could be wrong, but that's my feeling right now.

 

I don't think Haskins is given the opportunity, I think he's gone.

 

If you can get Dak, I'd get Dak.  But I don't think Dak is going to be available, so that's not going to happen.  

 

I would absolutely go after Stafford if he was available.  I'm less high on Ryan.  I would not touch Cam with a 10 foot pole.  That would be bad for both Ron and Cam.  If he can't do it in NE, he's not going to do it here.  

 

Personally, I would go the proven veteran starter route because I don't think we're drafting a guy who can come in and start right away, and I don't trust Kyle Allen to be the starter. 

 

I'm willing to bet, however, Ron rolls with Kyle Allen and drafts a guy in the 2nd or 3rd.  Because they really trust Kyle Allen.  

[Stefanskins]

Is this Kirk's last year?...lol wouldn't that be a hoot!!!

[jnhutchi3]

3 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

You need more than a great coach. You need a great GM and a great organization, which Gibbs had, for lasting success.  Gibbs and his staff may have gotten the most out of the players but it was still Bethard's job to get those players and the owners job to just stay out of the way and support his people.  

Definitely.  Beathard and Gibbs may have been the best GM-Coach team in NFL history.

14 hours ago, Stefanskins said:

ok...I can see what you are saying...winning the super bowl is what's it's all about...and Joe did that...and orchestrated one of the best years an NFL Offensive has ever had... but, I still wouldn't take a Bob Greise (with a lil' Earl Morrall thrown in) over a Dan Marino...just like I'd have to take Sonny over Joe...

 

 

They agree with you

 

https://www.lineups.com/articles/top-10-greatest-redskins-qbs-of-all-time/

 

lol These guys dont agree with either of us...

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2013/5/22/4352856/top-10-redskins-quarterbacks

 

and these guys agree with me....lol fun trip down memory lane...I liked Brad Johnson too...so I'd say that Alex is our best QB since Brad Johnson 

 

https://riggosrag.com/2018/12/24/washington-redskins-15-best-quarterbacks-of-all-time-sammy-baugh-sonny-jurgensen/

There are some definite head-scratchers on these lists.  The first list doesn't mention Brad Johnson or Mark Brunell, which I think is laughable.  I would not put Jason Campbell ahead of either one of them.  

[wit33]

Not seeing the Stafford angle, maybe if he was 3 or 4 years older, but a new regime can realistically plan the next five years with Stafford in mind. 
 

No interest in paying an average starter 20mil or a Dak Prescott 30 plus.... yuck. 
 

Save the money to get talent on offense and keep ALL the defensive guys together for the next 4-5 years. 
 

I can roll with attempting to be the exception by having an elite defense and average starter to compete for SB. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by wit33

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Not seeing the Stafford angle, maybe if he was 3 or 4 years older, but a new regime can realistically plan the next five years with Stafford in mind. 
 

No interest in paying an average starter 20mil or a Dak Prescott 30 plus.... yuck. 
 

Save the money to get talent on offense and keep ALL the defensive guys together for the next 4-5 years. 
 

I can roll with attempting to be the exception by having an elite defense and average starter to compete for SB. 

 

Not me, I'd roll the dice and try to fix the QB spot.  I agree with the PFF guy in the segment I posted here who said to win in the playoffs with average QB play -- you got to get lucky.   I think this defense is too good to waste it on hoping to catch major breaks in the playoffs.  I think it can threaten a SB right now with a good QB.  I'd make finding that guy my top priority if I were them.  I know easier said then done.

 

But playing to your point lets say Alex doesn't return then who is the average QB on this roster?

57 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I'm willing to bet, however, Ron rolls with Kyle Allen and drafts a guy in the 2nd or 3rd.  Because they really trust Kyle Allen.  

 

My gut is they do something like this.    Or maybe Mac Jones in the first.  I don't think Mac Jones will still be there in the late 2nd.   I think good chance he goes in the late first.  

Personally, he's my favorite roll of the dice QBs outside of the top 4 guys in this draft. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not me, I'd roll the dice and try to fix the QB spot.  I agree with the PFF guy in the segment I posted here who said to win in the playoffs with average QB play -- you got to get lucky. 
 

 

Would need a breakdown of what lucky is to the average QB versus the great or elite. In my view they all require a great deal of luck outside of Mahomes these days. Failed logic, in my view. 
 

What is an impressive win percentage for a QB in the playoffs?

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 I think this defense is too good to waste it on hoping to catch major breaks in the playoffs.  I think it can threaten a SB right now with a good QB.  I'd make finding that guy my top priority if I were them.  I know easier said then done.

 

Hoping to catch major breaks? Who even thinks this way as a team. 
 

I agree it’s a top priority, no doubt. I wouldnt want to overpay an average guy, but I do understand the logic of securing that spot with competence. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But playing to your point lets say Alex doesn't return then who is the average QB on this roster?

I absolutely think you can win a SB with an average guy, but he must have some ability to create and extend plays. Not sure who at this stage, but we’ll see how the off season shakes out. Id like Kyle Allen to be retained and compete with whomever they bring in or Alex Smith and draft a young guy. 
 

Sam Darnold is a guy I like, but that’s getting into subjective discussion. For example, I’d rather pay Darnold 7 mil than retain Smith at 22mil. Darnold, Allen and rookie battling out at a cost of around 10-14mil sounds good to me. 

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

Not seeing the Stafford angle, maybe if he was 3 or 4 years older, but a new regime can realistically plan the next five years with Stafford in mind. 
 

No interest in paying an average starter 20mil or a Dak Prescott 30 plus.... yuck. 
 

Save the money to get talent on offense and keep ALL the defensive guys together for the next 4-5 years. 
 

I can roll with attempting to be the exception by having an elite defense and average starter to compete for SB. 

 

Even Denver had the ghost of Peyton of all people. 

 

QBs cost money, some of yall concern me with keeping qbs we have talk.  All of them have started this year, we may get in playoffs because division is garbage, but win a ring rotating qbs?

 

We need someone that can start 16 and not turn ball over a lot.  

Edited December 15, 2020 by Renegade7

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Even Denver had the ghost of Peyton of all people. 

 

QBs cost money, some of yall scare me with keeping qbs we gave.  All of them have started this year, we may get in playoffs because division is garbage, but win a ring rotation qbs?

 

We need someone that can start 16 and not turn ball over a lot.  

Grab the wrong vet and you’re saddled with a giant contract, possibly asset loss, and a very real possibility of losing some of our big time players because we can’t afford them. 
 

It is not a risk a young, rebuilding franchise can afford to take.

 

Id be willing to be 80% of this forum would be really happy to have Justin Fields, Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson as our QB. 
 

We’re not going to wind up with them. 
 

So the next bet is a younger free agent who won’t saddle your team with a ridiculous contract.

 

You only sign the big contract guy if you are 100% positive they are going to make a tremendous difference. 

[mhd24]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Grab the wrong vet and you’re saddled with a giant contract, possibly asset loss, and a very real possibility of losing some of our big time players because we can’t afford them. 
 

It is not a risk a young, rebuilding franchise can afford to take.

 

Id be willing to be 80% of this forum would be really happy to have Justin Fields, Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson as our QB. 
 

We’re not going to wind up with them. 
 

So the next bet is a younger free agent who won’t saddle your team with a ridiculous contract.

 

You only sign the big contract guy if you are 100% positive they are going to make a tremendous difference. 

 

 

Yeah, we won't have as much cap room as we expect considering Scherff is a must resign, and Rouiller could be heading there (depends on what the staff think about Ismael).  

 

Dallas isn't going to let Dak leave.

 

If Alex retires, what about Dalton?  He's in his early 30s and won't cost anything near what the market rate is (15 million plus).  Say we draft Rondale Moore (1st), Pat Friermouth (2nd), best RB available at the SF pick, and best CB available with our 3rd round pick.  

 

I think Dalton could be serviceable here.

Edited December 15, 2020 by mhd24

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Grab the wrong vet and you’re saddled with a giant contract, possibly asset loss, and a very real possibility of losing some of our big time players because we can’t afford them. 
 

It is not a risk a young, rebuilding franchise can afford to take.

 

Id be willing to be 80% of this forum would be really happy to have Justin Fields, Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson as our QB. 
 

We’re not going to wind up with them. 
 

So the next bet is a younger free agent who won’t saddle your team with a ridiculous contract.

 

You only sign the big contract guy if you are 100% positive they are going to make a tremendous difference. 

 

I don't think tough we are going to have a chance at a big name Qb at a big contract.  I think I am more likely to be the Qb for the WFT next season than Dak.

 

I think almost sure we ride with what we got and draft a QB at some point.   The only wildcard and I think its a long shot but not impossible is Matt Stafford.  Maybe Sam Darnold but i hope not. 

[KDawg]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think tough we are going to have a chance at a big name Qb at a big contract.  I think I am more likely to be the Qb for the WFT next season than Dak.

 

I think almost sure we ride with what we got and draft a QB at some point.   The only wildcard and I think its a long shot but not impossible is Matt Stafford.  Maybe Sam Darnold but i hope not. 

Stafford is exactly the kind of guy we CAN’T gamble on. Not only will he come with a giant contract, but also asset loss in the form of draft picks for a team trying to fill a lot of holes.

 

And with how much of an injury risk he’s been, giving all that up to have Kyle Allen start 6-8 games anyways is absolutely killer.

 

I don’t think Dak is our QB either.

 

As I’ve said I think it’s Alex/Allen + one. The only wild card is if Alex retires.

 

Then it’s Allen/Rookie/Vet FA (Fitz, Dalton, Jameis type)

[NoCalMike]

I don't think Rivera goes after guys like Stafford, Rivers, or even Cam if he doesn't feel the team is ready to win now with a better QB under center.  The money needed to sign any of the three is simply too much if you think it won't translate to more wins right away. 

 

For a second lets assume Alex Smith does want to play another season (I am assuming the front office would request him to re-negotiate his contract since it would be hitting the higher costing seasons) and for 2021 it is Smith starting, Allen back up, and then Haskins/Montez/draft pick as the #3 QB.  In that case I think it is a priority to go out and sign more playmakers for this offense.  

[method man]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Stafford is exactly the kind of guy we CAN’T gamble on. Not only will he come with a giant contract, but also asset loss in the form of draft picks for a team trying to fill a lot of holes.

 

And with how much of an injury risk he’s been, giving all that up to have Kyle Allen start 6-8 games anyways is absolutely killer.

 

I don’t think Dak is our QB either.

 

As I’ve said I think it’s Alex/Allen + one. The only wild card is if Alex retires.

 

Then it’s Allen/Rookie/Vet FA (Fitz, Dalton, Jameis type)

 

At this time, Stafford is my favorite bet. He has gotten injured a bit in recent years but you know what you are going to get from him and there is a good chance for upside here because he has never been on a team that has played complementary football. I love his ability to go deep and he will get to play with Thomas and McKissic, former teammates of his in Detroit, so there is some chemistry built in. I get you have to give up picks but I'd rather give up a 2nd and take on a $20M salary the next couple years vs gamble a first on Mac Jones/Kyle Trask. 

 

If you get Stafford, you also become more of a preferred destination for free agents, especially receivers.