Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[jnhutchi3]

2 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I believe the value in Alex, more than anything else, is the respect he has of his teammates and across the league. He is a pro, can read defenses and generally doesn't make bad decisions. He was the perfect mentor for Patrick Mahomes and he will be great for whomever we put around him, namely Allen, Haskins and Montez this year. He has stabilized the offense with his veteran presence and command in the huddle. I would bet he already has a job in the organization lined up post playing career if he wants it. 

 

Smith is the best QB Washington has had since....dare I say it....Theismann.  He definitely has Theismann's grit, competitiveness, and leadership ability.

[kingdaddy]

4 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Smith is the best QB Washington has had since....dare I say it....Theismann.  He definitely has Theismann's grit, competitiveness, and leadership ability.

Ha, ha....you could've stopped at Rypien. The Ripper was a very good QB in Washington, surrounded by studs too. Are you related to Joe Theismann?

[Warhead36]

Smith is not as good as Cousins 2015-2017. If we had that level of QB play this year we'd have a shot at at winning the NFC.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Warhead36

[jnhutchi3]

26 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Ha, ha....you could've stopped at Rypien. The Ripper was a very good QB in Washington, surrounded by studs too. Are you related to Joe Theismann?

 

LOL.  No, not related.  I've been watching NFL football since 1979 and Joe Theismann is easily one of the top 20 QBs that I've seen during that time.  Both he and Ken Anderson are deserving of Hall Of Fame honors.

 

I liked Rypien, but he was no Theismann.  Rypien was a much better version of Dwayne Haskins -- strong-armed, but robotic at times.  Rypien didn't have Theismann's athletic ability and natural feel for the game.  

Edited December 15, 2020 by jnhutchi3

[jnhutchi3]

8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Smith is not as good as Cousins 2015-2017. If we had that level of QB play this year we'd have a shot at at winning the NFC.

 

If Cousins played better in big games, then I might be inclined to agree with you.  However, I remember that **** burger game he put up against the Giants at home a few years ago, with a playoff spot on the line.  That was easily one of Cousins' worst games, with everything to play for and the Giants had nothing to play for.  I don't think Cousins' decision making is as good as Smith's, especially in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line.   

[Spaceman Spiff]

I think you gotta go with Smith or a veteran next year.  This defense is locked and loaded.  And no one's talking about it, but Ioan comes back next year, it could be even better.

 

With the defense the way it is, you gotta have as close to a sure thing as you can get at QB.

 

Now with Kyle Smith evaluating, I'm open to trusting his decision making a bit more.  But I can't quite think of a rookie QB that's come into the league over the past few years that's had a defense like this. 

 

I don't want to say we're in "win now" mode, but we're not far off.  If we gamble with a rookie QB...they better be certain.

[tmandoug1]

22 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Ha, ha....you could've stopped at Rypien. The Ripper was a very good QB in Washington, surrounded by studs too. Are you related to Joe Theismann?

Na ha,,,,,Rypien had the best Oline of all time.....maybe we look at oline.

[kingdaddy]

18 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

 

5 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I think you gotta go with Smith or a veteran next year.  This defense is locked and loaded.  And no one's talking about it, but Ioan comes back next year, it could be even better.

 

With the defense the way it is, you gotta have as close to a sure thing as you can get at QB.

 

Now with Kyle Smith evaluating, I'm open to trusting his decision making a bit more.  But I can't quite think of a rookie QB that's come into the league over the past few years that's had a defense like this. 

 

I don't want to say we're in "win now" mode, but we're not far off.  If we gamble with a rookie QB...they better be certain.

Agreed....bring all 4 of them back unless someone gives you good value for Haskins. I liked what I saw out of Allen. If you haven't already done so, check out game footage of Steven Montez and I think you'll be impressed. He has some serious tools and it wouldn't surprise me if the coaches feel he's a better prospect than DH is. Big arm, good size, moves well. Wouldn't it be something if our future QB is already on the roster flying under the ra

Edited December 15, 2020 by kingdaddy
deleted a post

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just now, kingdaddy said:

 

Agreed....bring all 4 of them back unless someone gives you good value for Haskins. I liked what I saw out of Allen. If you haven't already done so, check out game footage of Steven Montez and I think you'll be impressed. He has some serious tools and it wouldn't surprise me if the coaches feel he's a better prospect than DH is. Big arm, good size, moves well. Wouldn't it be something if our future QB is already on the roster flying under the radar?

 

I've not checked out Montez's tape, but I'll give it a look.

 

Haskins trade value right now has to be non-existent.  Montez can't be worse, Haskins looked atrocious yesterday.  

[Stefanskins]

4 hours ago, Daniel.redskins said:

What he did was remarkable, there might be a disney movie about it years from now.

remarkable...astonishing...unbelievable...and the bonus is we don't know the ending because we are watching this disney movie in real time!

[Stefanskins]

3 hours ago, jnhutchi3 said:

Theismann was more than a "serviceable QB".  He's the best QB Washington ever had and he should be in the Hall of Fame.

well he is first ballot in stefanskin's HoF...but Sammy and Sonny are probably the two best...Joe 3rd though...which isn't bad for how many QBs we've run through over 80 years...btw are you Joe Theismenn??...the rule on ES is you have to tell us if you are...

 

[Stefanskins]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

Steven Montez

good call...after that video I want to start him next Sunday if Alex can't go...

 

 

 

 

haven't watched all of this one but so far this guy seems to know what he's talking about...pretty interesting

 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Stefanskins

[jnhutchi3]

15 minutes ago, Stefanskins said:

well he is first ballot in stefanskin's HoF...but Sammy and Sonny are probably the two best...Joe 3rd though...which isn't bad for how many QBs we've run through over 80 years...btw are you Joe Theismenn??...the rule on ES is you have to tell us if you are...

 

 

No, definitely not.  I wish.  I'm just a big fan of his, I grew up watching him play. 

 

And I would take Theismann over Sonny Jurgensen.  Jurgensen was a gifted passer and he put up big passing yards, but he didn't win many games and he wasn't nearly as athletic as Theismann.  

[KDawg]

18 minutes ago, Stefanskins said:

good call...after that video I want to start him next Sunday if Alex can't go...

 

 

 

 

haven't watched all of this one but so far this guy seems to know what he's talking about...pretty interesting

 

 

JT O’Sullivan is extremely intelligent. He made it in the league because of that intelligence. Granted, his role was as a backup for four NFL seasons. 
 

Which doesn’t seem like a lot but he was not very physically talented.

 

He knows football and understands routes, concepts and skill sets. I haven’t found a single thing he’s said I’ve disagreed with. Not to say I’m always right... I’m DEFINITELY not. But what he says sticks, in my opinion.

[Stefanskins]

2 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

No, definitely not.  I wish.  I'm just a big fan of his, I grew up watching him play. 

 

And I would take Theismann over Sonny Jurgensen.  Jurgensen was a gifted passer and he put up big passing yards, but he didn't win many games and he wasn't nearly as athletic as Theismann.  

I grew up watching Theismann too...I was too young to remember Jurgensen...but from highlights I can see why many say he was one of the best the best pure passers in NFL history...like you said he didn't win a lot of games but he had some terrible teams...and he was good enough to get voted into the HoF...I'd wager he probably has the worst winning % outta all QBs in the HoF...i.e. Marino didnt win the big one or even make it to two...much less back to back...but no matter how much I love me some Theismann...Dan was clearly the better QB...

Just now, KDawg said:

JT O’Sullivan is extremely intelligent. He made it in the league because of that intelligence. Granted, his role was as a backup for four NFL seasons. 
 

Which doesn’t seem like a lot but he was not very physically talented.

 

He knows football and understands routes, concepts and skill sets. I haven’t found a single thing he’s said I’ve disagreed with. Not to say I’m always right... I’m DEFINITELY not. But what he says sticks, in my opinion.

lol yes!...I'm still watching this break down...

[jnhutchi3]

6 minutes ago, Stefanskins said:

I grew up watching Theismann too...I was too young to remember Jurgensen...but from highlights I can see why many say he was one of the best the best pure passers in NFL history...like you said he didn't win a lot of games but he had some terrible teams...and he was good enough to get voted into the HoF...I'd wager he probably has the worst winning % outta all QBs in the HoF...i.e. Marino didnt win the big one or even make it to two...much less back to back...but no matter how much I love me some Theismann...Dan was clearly the better QB...

lol yes!...I'm still watching this break down...

 

Was Marino clearly better than Theismann?  I'm not so sure of that.  

 

Passing yards is such an overrated statistic.  It's easy to put up big numbers when all you do is pass.  And that's all Marino did.  I think Marino's ego got in the way of the Dolphins winning more games.  

[Stefanskins]

17 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Was Marino clearly better than Theismann?  I'm not so sure of that.  

 

Passing yards is such an overrated statistic.  It's easy to put up big numbers when all you do is pass.  And that's all Marino did.  I think Marino's ego got in the way of the Dolphins winning more games.  

ok...I can see what you are saying...winning the super bowl is what's it's all about...and Joe did that...and orchestrated one of the best years an NFL Offensive has ever had... but, I still wouldn't take a Bob Greise (with a lil' Earl Morrall thrown in) over a Dan Marino...just like I'd have to take Sonny over Joe...

26 minutes ago, Stefanskins said:

I would take Theismann over Sonny Jurgensen

 

 

They agree with you

 

https://www.lineups.com/articles/top-10-greatest-redskins-qbs-of-all-time/

 

lol These guys dont agree with either of us...

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2013/5/22/4352856/top-10-redskins-quarterbacks

 

and these guys agree with me....lol fun trip down memory lane...I liked Brad Johnson too...so I'd say that Alex is our best QB since Brad Johnson 

 

https://riggosrag.com/2018/12/24/washington-redskins-15-best-quarterbacks-of-all-time-sammy-baugh-sonny-jurgensen/

Edited December 15, 2020 by Stefanskins

[88Comrade2000]

10 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I think you gotta go with Smith or a veteran next year.  This defense is locked and loaded.  And no one's talking about it, but Ioan comes back next year, it could be even better.

 

With the defense the way it is, you gotta have as close to a sure thing as you can get at QB.

 

Now with Kyle Smith evaluating, I'm open to trusting his decision making a bit more.  But I can't quite think of a rookie QB that's come into the league over the past few years that's had a defense like this. 

 

I don't want to say we're in "win now" mode, but we're not far off.  If we gamble with a rookie QB...they better be certain.

What was the Steelers defense like, in Ben’s rookie year? The Steelers had a good year that year and I think he won it all in his second year.

 

I do feel in the short term we go with a veteran but we do need that long term QB ; to take over when the veteran is done.

[Spaceman Spiff]

46 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

What was the Steelers defense like, in Ben’s rookie year? The Steelers had a good year that year and I think he won it all in his second year.

 

I do feel in the short term we go with a veteran but we do need that long term QB ; to take over when the veteran is done.

 

Ben completed 66% of his passes in his rookie year, 17 touchdowns and 11 picks.  He also lead the league with 5 game winning drives.  If we can get a rookie to produce those numbers, I'd take it.  

 

I agree we need the long term QB. I hope Kyle Smith is different, but I am very hesitant to draft a QB because we've never been able to do it past a flash in the pan.  Or getting someone that the fanbase can't agree on, we're great at that, too.

[JSSkinz]

Does Alex want to play next year?  I'm surprised he didn't come out and say he would be back after the team released the statement a few weeks ago that they wanted him back. 

 

Maybe he didn't feel he needs to because he's under contract but its possible he's thinking of retiring or its a family decision that wont take place until after the season.

 

Whatever the deal is I'm sure he's being transparent with the team so they can plan accordingly but I wouldn't be surprised if the season take a toll on that leg and he decides to hang it up.

[Darrell Green Fan]

15 hours ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Actually, I think you can sustain success with different QBs in the modern era.  You just need to have a great coach.  And Gibbs was a great coach.  Perhaps the most underrated great coach in NFL history, since he's the only one who has been able to pull this off.

You need more than a great coach. You need a great GM and a great organization, which Gibbs had, for lasting success.  Gibbs and his staff may have gotten the most out of the players but it was still Bethard's job to get those players and the owners job to just stay out of the way and support his people.  

[heyholetsgogrant]

11 hours ago, Stefanskins said:

good call...after that video I want to start him next Sunday if Alex can't go...

 

 

 

 

haven't watched all of this one but so far this guy seems to know what he's talking about...pretty interesting

 

 

I would start him and just tell him to run.  Why can’t we put him a few times a game just have him run? 

[JSSkinz]

So I was curious how creative teams can get with trades when it comes to assuming cap space to help the trading team reduce their exposure to accelerated costs and I couldn't find any good answers so I sent a direct message to Joel Corry and he responded which was pretty cool.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I posted this somewhere else but it belongs more here.  If we just had an above average QB we'd be dangerous.  Alex I think can make this a playoff team but I don't think its an accident his playoff record is 2-5, he's not the type to outduel a hot QB in the playoffs.  More importantly, he's going to be 37 and he doesn't have the mobility he once did.

 

Kyle Allen to me is a wildcard but I don't think he has a big ceiling.  I was not a Haskins guy before the draft and I am not a Haskins guy now.

 

As for veterans though I think the pickings are likely slim.  Maybe Stafford albeit a Lions reporter recently said he expects they bring him back.  Atlanta would take a massive cap hit if they traded Matt Ryan.  So who would be in play otherwise?

 

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I posted this somewhere else but it belongs more here.  If we just had an above average QB we'd be dangerous.  Alex I think can make this a playoff team but I don't think its an accident his playoff record is 2-5, he's not the type to outduel a hot QB in the playoffs.  More importantly, he's going to be 37 and he doesn't have the mobility he once did.

 

Kyle Allen to me is a wildcard but I don't think he has a big ceiling.  I was not a Haskins guy before the draft and I am not a Haskins guy now.

 

As for veterans though I think the pickings are likely slim.  Maybe Stafford albeit a Lions reporter recently said he expects they bring him back.  Atlanta would take a massive cap hit if they traded Matt Ryan.  So who would be in play otherwise?

 

 

 

 

Im trending in direction of exploring other options than Alex. I’d entertain it if he agreed to slice his deal in half. I just hope the team doesn’t give him $20mil just because that’s the going rate for a veteran starter. Offer him $10 and go from there. $10mil let’s the team go and take a gamble on a veteran WR for next year without assuming much long term risk or whatever else. 
 

I really thought Kyle Allen was dynamic in the short game with his timing, arm angles, ability to move and create unique passing lanes within the offense, but have zero confidence in his ability to manage a game or understand when and when not to make throws down field. 
 

Let Allen and Smith battle it out for the job and draft a rookie might be the way I go, only if the money makes sense on Alex.