Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[jnhutchi3]

Obviously, no team wants a rookie QB to start for them.  That's the wrong question.  

 

This is Alex Smith's team next year, barring another serious injury.  The real question is should the Redskins draft a top-flight QB in the first round of the draft if they have the opportunity.  The answer to that question is obviously YES!!  

 

We don't know how much longer Smith will be able to play.  Smith knows how to win, which is the most important quality of any QB.  Smith is the best QB that Washington has had since Joe Theismann.

 

Dwayne Haskins is definitely not the answer.  Haskins simply can't be trusted when the game is on the line.  That horrible pass to McLaurin in the 4th quarter against the 49ers that was almost intercepted could have cost Washington the game.  Haskins has no confidence, does not perform well in pressure situations, and just has no feel for the game.  He will never be a good QB in this league.  Another one of Snyder's brilliant ideas gone to ****.

[TheShredder]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

That's a lot of money for a good but not great QB. And on top of that he's coming off a major injury. I'd pass.

 

I think the most likely scenario is we keep Smith and trade up in the 1st for someone like Lance.

Assuming Alex doesn't retire.  There's good logic towards him calling it a career after 15 seasons and completed comeback.  I'm almost certain his wife will have that argument.  Unless WFT assures him they're going ALL-IN for 2021, he'll hang it up, IMO.

 

If they draft a QB in the 1st round Smith isn't in the plan and WFT isn't ALL-IN for 2021.  He isn't going to hang around to mentor at this stage.

If the WFT is targeting 2022, then they could move up a bit and get Zach Wilson from BYU to do what Smith does, with upside.  Probably have to give up 2 seconds again, but you'd get exactly what you need for how this team is built. 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by TheShredder

[jnhutchi3]

4 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

That price tag has to come down, right?

 

We have a lot of money to blow, especially if we cut Alex and Haskins.

 

Hard choices coming up soon.

 

It would be a mistake to get rid of Alex Smith.  The guy knows how to play the position, he knows how to win.  He's got a competitive fire that simply can't be taught.  He's the best QB that Washington has had since Joe Theismann.  He wins games, his Win-Loss record speaks for itself.  That is still the #1 criteria for any QB.  

 

Haskins?  Forget it.  He should have been cut in training camp.  Haskins looks lost most of the time.  He just has horrible instincts, no feel for the game at all.

[Renegade7]

8 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

It would be a mistake to get rid of Alex Smith.  The guy knows how to play the position, he knows how to win.  He's got a competitive fire that simply can't be taught.  He's the best QB that Washington has had since Joe Theismann.  He wins games, his Win-Loss record speaks for itself.  That is still the #1 criteria for any QB.  

 

SMH, he's done, he's doing jus enough but makes too much and can't stay healthy.  Great story, but he needs to go.

 

Quote

Haskins?  Forget it.  He should have been cut in training camp.  Haskins looks lost most of the time.  He just has horrible instincts, no feel for the game at all.

 

Agree.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Renegade7

[jnhutchi3]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

SMH, he's done, he's doing jus enough but makes too much and can't stay healthy.  Great story, but he needs to go.

 

 

Agree.

 

I couldn't disagree more about Smith.  I think he could have 2 - 3 really good years left in him.  Washington just pulled off their biggest upset in the past 20 years with Smith as QB.  He played fantastic in the second half against Pittsburgh.  It would be a huge mistake to let Smith go until Washington has a young QB that they are fully confident in.

 

Washington should have kept Colt McKoy, who never got a fair shot in Washington.  McKoy was better than Cousins and made fewer mistakes than Cousins when he, Cousins, and RG III were battling for the starting QB job a few years ago.

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

I couldn't disagree more about Smith.  I think he could have 2 - 3 really good years left in him.  Washington just pulled off their biggest upset in the past 20 years with Smith as QB.  He played fantastic in the second half against Pittsburgh.  It would be a huge mistake to let Smith go until Washington has a young QB that they are fully confident in.

 

Huh? Dude almost died now he's playing 2-3 more years? You think he's playing 16 games a year? I dont agree.

 

3 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

Washington should have kept Colt McKoy, who never got a fair shot in Washington.  McKoy was better than Cousins and made fewer mistakes than Cousins when he, Cousins, and RG III were battling for the starting QB job a few years ago.

 

He always got hurt when it was his chance. I liked him, but not better then Cousins. 

[Daniel.redskins]

I think there is a strong chance Smith retires. What he did was remarkable, there might be a disney movie about it years from now. But I do agree with others that him and his wife will make a decision best for his family. He just can't stay healthy. 

I'm all for moving up the get Wilson. He should be drafted between 10-15. We won't be trading much. Maybe just one first rounder. It's worth it for the qb position. 

If Wilson goes higher, than bring back Haskins, Allen, and Montez and have a full blown qb competition.  I don't want Stafford or Cam. 

 

 

[jnhutchi3]

13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Huh? Dude almost died now he's playing 2-3 more years? You think he's playing 16 games a year? I dont agree.

 

 

He always got hurt when it was his chance. I liked him, but not better then Cousins. 

 

Even if Smith only played 8 - 10 games per year, Washington will still win more games with him as QB.  The key to being a good QB is limiting mistakes.  That's why Smith has such a good Win/Loss record.  He rarely throws stupid INTs.  I would take Smith over many QBs currently in the Hall of Fame, especially the vastly overrated Brett Favre, who was just an interception machine.

 

Plus, Smith inspires the rest of the team.  The rest of the team knows that Smith will never give up in a game, not after what he has been through.  So the rest of the team has no excuses for quitting, either.

 

McCoy was not hurt 5 years ago when he and Cousins were fighting for the starting job.  The team decided to go with Cousins, which I thought was a mistake.  Cousins has gotten better in the past 5 years, but he was not better than McCoy 5 years ago.  Cousins threw more INTs than McCoy.  And now McCoy may end up taking the starting job in New York, because Doug Jones commits too many turnovers.

 

[Vladimir L]

This team can win now with Stafford we can make a super bowl run.

 

This defense only has  a 2-3 yewr window to win before handing out big contracts.

 

Draft a qb in the 3rd or 4th but go aftrr a vet.

[jnhutchi3]

On 10/19/2020 at 5:54 PM, kingdaddy said:

I'm with ya.....the way to do this is to go with the formula that won Joe Gibbs 3 rings, build the offensive line and fill in the blanks around it. Draft a stud linebacker and offensive linemen in rounds 1-3....find a TE and WR(s) in free agency (Smith-Shuster and Ertz?) Gibbs won with serviceable QB's and added key pieces where needed (Jim Lachey, Wilbur Marshall). His constant focus was on a dominant offensive line and running game to set up the downfield passes. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out if you attack the offensive line as a priority. The defensive line is set.....Sign a vet QB and build around him. 

 

Theismann was more than a "serviceable QB".  He's the best QB Washington ever had and he should be in the Hall of Fame.

[Redskins Reparations]

I still think there are too many holes to fill than to spend a draft pick on a QB.  At this point I would prefer to see Ryan Fitzpatrick backing up Alex Smith next season than Haskins.

[jnhutchi3]

On 10/19/2020 at 6:07 PM, Darrell Green Fan said:

Thank you, just about to post the same thing.  Just so tired of the whole Joe Gibbs/three different quarterbacks analogy, that was a different time.  The teams that have lasting success in the league today more often than not have a really good quarterback.  when you consider the fact that less than a third of the teams in the league have a top 10 quarterback yet they're the teams making the majority of the playoff and super bowl appearances this should be obvious.  But sadly to some it's still not for some strange reason

 

Actually, I think you can sustain success with different QBs in the modern era.  You just need to have a great coach.  And Gibbs was a great coach.  Perhaps the most underrated great coach in NFL history, since he's the only one who has been able to pull this off.

[Darth Tater]

53 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

He always got hurt when it was his chance. I liked him, but not better then Cousins. 

McCoy has always played like he thought he was a 6-4 230 pound guy with a rocket arm. Colt never seemed to realize that wasn't true.

[Playaction2Sanders]

I don't think Wilson is gonna last to us at where we are now at. I say go Guard/LB/WR and go for Mac Jones in the 2nd.. QB school likes him as well. He feels like a sound QB, some anticipation throws, good feet. Isn't going to wow you but doesn't make a ton of mistakes either. I could live with that..

 

https://youtu.be/OgL0w0O5is8?t=2

[Darth Tater]

2 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Actually, I think you can sustain success with different QBs in the modern era.  You just need to have a great coach.  And Gibbs was a great coach.  Perhaps the most underrated great coach in NFL history, since he's the only one who has been able to pull this off.

I get tired of that 'different time' bs. You go back in NFL history and what Gibbs did is a huge exception and that is your argument against that plan. The big difference was that a lot of really good QBs use to play for bad teams. In the modern era, not so much.

[JoggingGod]

1 hour ago, Daniel.redskins said:

f Wilson goes higher, than bring back Haskins, Allen, and Montez

No. no no no no. We can't waste this defense on garbage ass Haskins.

[jnhutchi3]

8 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

I get tired of that 'different time' bs. You go back in NFL history and what Gibbs did is a huge exception and that is your argument against that plan. The big difference was that a lot of really good QBs use to play for bad teams. In the modern era, not so much.

 

Yes, it was a huge exception.  Because Gibbs was an amazing coach who knew how to win with any decent QB.  His success had nothing to do with a "different era". 

8 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

I get tired of that 'different time' bs. You go back in NFL history and what Gibbs did is a huge exception and that is your argument against that plan. The big difference was that a lot of really good QBs use to play for bad teams. In the modern era, not so much.

 

The reason you don't see good QBs like Archie Manning stuck on horrible teams their whole career anymore is because of free agency.  Free agency did not exist prior to the 1990s.

Edited December 14, 2020 by jnhutchi3

[kingdaddy]

59 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Theismann was more than a "serviceable QB".  He's the best QB Washington ever had and he should be in the Hall of Fame.

I don't know about this....I will grant you that he had some good years where he was the QB of some great offenses but the great teams he played on didn't really rely much on him. It was the Hogs, Riggins and all of the pieces working together of which he was a key cog. In the two SB's Joey T. played in his numbers were not good, in fact they were poor. Theismann was a great leader and fiery competitor but I don't see him as HOF worthy. In fact, Joe had the worst SB performances out of Doug Williams and Mark Rypien, both MVP's in the game. 

[jnhutchi3]

15 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I don't know about this....I will grant you that he had some good years where he was the QB of some great offenses but the great teams he played on didn't really rely much on him. It was the Hogs, Riggins and all of the pieces working together of which he was a key cog. In the two SB's Joey T. played in his numbers were not good, in fact they were poor. Theismann was a great leader and fiery competitor but I don't see him as HOF worthy. In fact, Joe had the worst SB performances out of Doug Williams and Mark Rypien, both MVP's in the game. 

 

You say the Redskins didn't rely heavily on Theismann, yet he was voted NFL MVP during the 1983 season.  NFL observers understood how important Theismann was to the Redskins, that's why he won the award.  You don't average over 30 points per game and have the most dominant offense in league history (at that time) unless you are a great QB.  In fact, I believe the 1983 Redskins are still in the top 5 for most points scored by a team in a season.  That's very impressive, when you consider how most offenses were still run-oriented in those days.

 

Joe Theismann is the only NFL MVP (1983) and Super Bowl winning QB (1982) who is NOT in the Hall Of Fame.  He was far superior to both Williams and Rypien, despite his Super Bowl numbers.  And Theismann played quite well in Super Bowl XVII, he is a key reason why they won the game.  The Redskins got crushed by the Raiders in Super Bowl XVIII, so yeah his numbers were poor in that game.  The Raiders' D was dominant in that game and he barely had time to throw the ball and got sacked several times, as I recall.    

 

Theismann was the best QB in the league for two years in 1982 and 1983.  There is no other Redskins QB you can say that about, except for Sammy Baugh.  Theismann deserves to be in the Hall Of Fame.

Edited December 15, 2020 by jnhutchi3

[kingdaddy]

2 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

You say the Redskins didn't rely heavily on Theismann, yet he was voted NFL MVP during the 1983 season.  NFL observers understood how important Theismann was to the Redskins, that's why he won the award.  You don't average over 30 points per game and have the most dominant offense in league history (at that time) unless you are a great QB.  In fact, I believe the 1983 Redskins are still in the top 5 for most points scored by a team in a season.  That's very impressive, when you consider how most offenses were still run-oriented in those days.

 

Joe Theismann is the only NFL MVP (1983) and Super Bowl winning QB (1982) who is NOT in the Hall Of Fame.  He was far superior to both Williams and Rypien, despite his Super Bowl numbers.  And Theismann played quite well in Super Bowl XVII, he is a key reason why they won the game.  The Redskins got crushed by the Raiders in Super Bowl XVIII, so yeah his numbers were poor in that game.  The Raiders' D was dominant in that game and he barely had time to throw the ball and got sacked several times, as I recall.    

 

Theismann was the best QB in the league for two years in 1982 and 1983.  There is no other Redskins QB you can say that about, except for Sammy Baugh.  Theismann deserves to be in the Hall Of Fame.

We may need a mediator on this one....Theismann was great in 83, much better than serviceable for sure, but I believe the reason he isn't in the HOF is his lackluster SB numbers and overall career numbers. Career rating of 77.4. 

Now I will give you this, If Bob Griese, Troy Aikman and Ken Stabler are Hall of Famers, which they are, then Theismann and Phil Simms both belong. 

[NoCalMike]

The injury took what could have been a good 3-4 season stretch to end Smith's career in DC and hand the reigns off to draft pick.  The problem is that injury stole a big part of Alex Smith's game that is never coming back at this stage.  His mobility and ability to make throws while scrambling and on the run was a huge part of his game.  He doesn't have the dynamic element to his game anymore and without that he becomes just another guy at QB.  Now granted, with a stout defense, running game, and a few more playmakers on this offense, Alex Smith isn't the worst option while you look for the long term answer.

[jnhutchi3]

Just now, kingdaddy said:

We may need a mediator on this one....Theismann was great in 83, much better than serviceable for sure, but I believe the reason he isn't in the HOF is his lackluster SB numbers and overall career numbers. Career rating of 77.4. 

Now I will give you this, If Bob Griese, Troy Aikman and Ken Stabler are Hall of Famers, which they are, then Theismann and Phil Simms both belong. 

 

QB ratings are a very misleading statistic for QBs that played over 30 years ago.  For example, everyone agrees that Roger Staubach was a great QB.  However, his QB rating is marginally better than Theismann's.  And Theismann had more passing yards than Staubach. 

 

And I believe Theismann has a better QB rating than Bradshaw, and a much better TD/interception ratio than Bradshaw.  If I had to choose between Theismann and Bradshaw, I would choose Theismann with no hesitation.  In addition, Theismann has among the best winning percentages of all time, which should not be overlooked, either.  He did not make many critical mistakes that cost his team wins, which is an overlooked quality among QBs.

 

And Theismann was better than all of the other QBs that you mentioned, except for possibly Aikman.  So I'm glad that we agree on that and that he belongs in the HOF.

[jnhutchi3]

7 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

The injury took what could have been a good 3-4 season stretch to end Smith's career in DC and hand the reigns off to draft pick.  The problem is that injury stole a big part of Alex Smith's game that is never coming back at this stage.  His mobility and ability to make throws while scrambling and on the run was a huge part of his game.  He doesn't have the dynamic element to his game anymore and without that he becomes just another guy at QB.  Now granted, with a stout defense, running game, and a few more playmakers on this offense, Alex Smith isn't the worst option while you look for the long term answer.

 

Exactly.  Which is why it would be incredibly foolish of Washington to let Smith go.  He is still an above average QB in my opinion and he's extremely tough mentally.  He's very competitive and doesn't wilt under pressure when the game is on the line.  That's a quality that you can't teach and it's more important than athletic ability when it comes to the QB position.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

I don’t want to draft a qb higher then the third round. So if we draft a QB we need to draft him as a backup behind a journeyman veteran. 

[kingdaddy]

8 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Exactly.  Which is why it would be incredibly foolish of Washington to let Smith go.  He is still an above average QB in my opinion and he's extremely tough mentally.  He's very competitive and doesn't wilt under pressure when the game is on the line.  That's a quality that you can't teach and it's more important than athletic ability when it comes to the QB position.

I believe the value in Alex, more than anything else, is the respect he has of his teammates and across the league. He is a pro, can read defenses and generally doesn't make bad decisions. He was the perfect mentor for Patrick Mahomes and he will be great for whomever we put around him, namely Allen, Haskins and Montez this year. He has stabilized the offense with his veteran presence and command in the huddle. I would bet he already has a job in the organization lined up post playing career if he wants it.