Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Would need a breakdown of what lucky is to the average QB versus the great or elite. In my view they all require a great deal of luck outside of Mahomes these days. Failed logic, in my view. 
 

 

lol, I know you got your own very specific theories of how to ride out the economics of the QB position.   If you disagree with the PFF guy, it doesn't surprise me.  All cool. 😀 But i agree with their point. 

 

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

What is an impressive win percentage for a QB in the playoffs?

 

 

I can answer this but it feels like a trap question.  😀

 

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Hoping to catch major breaks? Who even thinks this way as a team. 

 

You I am sure can follow the point that if the PFF thinks a team would be the underdog throughout the playoffs as he put it -- you often need to get some breaks to pull off upset after upset in the playoffs.  For example, injuries.  It helped us how Deebo got hurt at the beginning of the game on Sunday, facing the Eagles without much of their starting O line, stuff like that.  If you don't agree.  Cool.  I don't care enough about the point to argue it.

 

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

I absolutely think you can win a SB with an average guy, but he must have some ability to create and extend plays. Not sure who at this stage, but we’ll see how the off season shakes out. Id like Kyle Allen to be retained and compete with whomever they bring in or Alex Smith and draft a young guy. 

 

You can also win with a below average QB.  It's all about playing the odds.    IMO the odds that you are going to win with an average QB isn't as high as with an above average QB.  

 

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Sam Darnold is a guy I like, but that’s getting into subjective discussion. For example, I’d rather pay Darnold 7 mil than retain Smith at 22mil. Darnold, Allen and rookie battling out at a cost of around 10-14mil sounds good to me. 

 

If Alex is a distinctly better QB than Darnold than the 22 million to 7 million comparison would mean nothing to me. 

 

Correct me if I am wrong.  I recall you look at QBs somewhat like buying value stocks except for the best of the best.  Using a stock analogy if you can get Kodac which is valued at $6 at a bargain price of $4, that's a heck of a lot better than buying Apple stock at $132 that's worth $120.  Then you delve into the semantics of how much of a value investor you are at the QB spot or something like that because you'd never overpay.  

 

I got the concept.  But where I depart from it is IMO you are going to make more money on Apple than Kodak even if you got the later stock at the more bargain price.  The football equivalent point would be i am winning the SB with Apple not Kodac.  My goal isn't to get a bargain at QB and just take my chances that the rest will work itself out.  My point is that the rest is unlikely to work itself out.  It doesn't matter to me how many exceptions to the rule we can think of that worked out.   I am a majority of the time over the exceptions kind of guy.  I used to be a TA for stats in college and I never really got the working with the odds on your side versus against the odds thing kicked out of me. 

 

I recall you debating this point last year touting Andy Dalton as a bargain pick, he's like a beaten down stock, and you can get him at a better price for that reason.  So sort of a Dogs of the Dow approach.  I get it.  Personally, i think its perfect if the goal is 9-7.  I think it will fail if you want to go 11-5 and win a SB.    And no i am not saying its impossible to win the other way.  Nothing is impossible.  But personally i am not betting on dudes like Andy Dalton or Ryan Fitzpatrick hoisting NFL trophies even if i got them at a steal.

 

And yeah I can't quantify my theory but neither can you.   The PFF guys who are all about quantifying everything stress the heck out of getting a top QB in the interviews I've listened to from them.  They could be wrong.  Who knows.  I don't believe in overpaying for average QBs but that's a different debate.  I am not overpaying for Dalton but instead ignoring Dalton outright as a target if the goal is getting a starter and winning the SB.   But if you can get someone really good whether its overpaying in draft capital or salary, you do it within reason.  IMO you don't win SBs with Andy Dalton types.  There is a reason IMO that he's gone 0-4 in the playoffs.

 

Where I agree with your theory is playing the draft.    If you get a good young QB on the cheap then that's the Holy Grail but not IMO a cheap veteran who is average at best at a bargain price.   Yeah it was nice to get Keenum for example cheap 2 years ago.  But so what?  

Edited December 16, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[JoggingGod]

How is anyone seriously suggesting Dalton or Haskins as a starter next year 

[Skinsinparadise]

54 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Stafford is exactly the kind of guy we CAN’T gamble on. Not only will he come with a giant contract, but also asset loss in the form of draft picks for a team trying to fill a lot of holes.

 

And with how much of an injury risk he’s been, giving all that up to have Kyle Allen start 6-8 games anyways is absolutely killer.

 

I don’t think Dak is our QB either.

 

As I’ve said I think it’s Alex/Allen + one. The only wild card is if Alex retires.

 

Then it’s Allen/Rookie/Vet FA (Fitz, Dalton, Jameis type)

 

I think just in general the whole idea that some have which is we have a defense set up to win now and so we just need to team that up with a really good veteran is likely a pipe dream.  It's rare for really good QB veterans to hit the FA market.  This year, the only dude that may hit the market is Rivers who will be 40 and arguably isn't who he once was.

 

To me everything screams that we aren't going for broke with a veteran but instead will fish in this draft for a dude and roll the dice that way.  i was once opposed to trading up in the draft for a QB but i've changed my mind on that within reason. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Stafford is exactly the kind of guy we CAN’T gamble on. Not only will he come with a giant contract, but also asset loss in the form of draft picks for a team trying to fill a lot of holes.

 

And with how much of an injury risk he’s been, giving all that up to have Kyle Allen start 6-8 games anyways is absolutely killer.

 

I don’t think Dak is our QB either.

 

As I’ve said I think it’s Alex/Allen + one. The only wild card is if Alex retires.

 

Then it’s Allen/Rookie/Vet FA (Fitz, Dalton, Jameis type)

Does anyone think Montez is a prospect? We have carried him all season on the PS which tells me the coaches see potential in him. I'm telling you, check out his college film and there is something about him. His target at Mizzou was Laviska Shenault and they were great. Montez can chuck it and has wheels too. I wonder if we are all missing on him?

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Does anyone think Montez is a prospect? We have carried him all season on the PS which tells me the coaches see potential in him. I'm telling you, check out his college film and there is something about him. His target at Mizzou was Laviska Shenault and they were great. Montez can chuck it and has wheels too. I wonder if we are all missing on him?

Montez was at Colorado. With Laviska.

 

But he may be. But chances are he’ll be able to be kept on the practice squad. 
 

Which is one reason we may not see him unless we have to. We want to stash him as long as we can on the PS. See what he learns and develops.

[kingdaddy]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Montez was at Colorado. With Laviska.

 

But he may be. But chances are he’ll be able to be kept on the practice squad. 
 

Which is one reason we may not see him unless we have to. We want to stash him as long as we can on the PS. See what he learns and develops.

Right, Colorado...I'm sure you've seen a lot of his film. I would like to hear someone from the coaching staff talk about what his future could be. We were pretty close to seeing him suiting up not too long ago.

[Darth Tater]

Advantage of a true elite and young QB is that you can rebuild around him every 3-4 years.  Problem with the strategy of relying on big defense is that we probably get only a three to four year window although we seem to find defensive gems easier. Last time we used a high pick in the draft to successfully find the franchise QB?  Sammy Baugh. You could argue for Snead since he got us Sonny.

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

Advantage of a true elite and young QB is that you can rebuild around him every 3-4 years.  Problem with the strategy of relying on big defense is that we probably get only a three to four year window although we seem to find defensive gems easier. Last time we used a high pick in the draft to successfully find the franchise QB?  Sammy Baugh. You could argue for Snead since he got us Sonny.

 

Agree.  It's hard to keep a band together of top players for long.  Ultimately, Allen, Sweat, Young, McLaurin might all become 20 million dollar plus players.  Scherff 15 million?  I can go on.  That's why for example the Seattle defense had to break up eventually.  Yet, they've still be consistently good because of Russell Wilson.

 

We aren't going to have all this young talent on the cheap forever.  It's going to break up at some point and won't be the same.    A PFF guy explained this once well in an interview on a local station which is defenses are hard to keep together or at least be consistently good whereas offenses are easier to keep some consistency.  Obviously there are some exceptions like the Ravens but the Ravens' ride wasn't all smooth either.    The Steelers have been paying Big Ben and maintaining a good defense.  Their secret seems to be letting their offensive playmakers go and just killing it in the draft and bringing replacements. 

 

Bringing it back to us, I think if we 2-3 years from now start breaking up the band and all we do in that period is match what we've done the previous highmarks of Dan's era which is 9-7, maybe 10-6 tops along with a first round exit from the playoffs it would be a shame because I think this is a unique window.   And if we can find even a good QB, I think we can get to the promised land potentially.   

 

We can bank on the exceptions like Jacksonville in 2017 almost doing it with Blake Bortles or hope an average QB gets hot like Foles with the Eagles but those aren't the norms.  I'd rather bank on the odds by trying it the normal way that typically works and also tends to have legs that go beyond just that season's success. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Stone Cold]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.  It's hard to keep a band together of top players for long.  Ultimately, Allen, Sweat, Young, McLaurin might all become 20 million dollar plus players.  Scherff 15 million?  I can go on.  That's why for example the Seattle defense had to break up eventually.  Yet, they've still be consistently good because of Russell Wilson.

 

We aren't going to have all this young talent on the cheap forever.  It's going to break up at some point and won't be the same.    A PFF guy explained this once well in an interview on a local station which is defenses are hard to keep together or at least be consistently good whereas offenses are easier to keep some consistency.  Obviously there are some exceptions like the Ravens but the Ravens' ride wasn't all smooth either.    The Steelers have been paying Big Ben and maintaining a good defense.  Their secret seems to be letting their offensive playmakers go and just killing it in the draft and bringing replacements. 

 

Bringing it back to us, I think if we 2-3 years from now start breaking up the band and all we do in that period is match what we've done the previous highmarks of Dan's era which is 9-7, maybe 10-6 tops along with a first round exit from the playoffs it would be a shame because I think this is a unique window.   And if we can find even a good QB, I think we can get to the promised land potentially.   

 

We can bank on the exceptions like Jacksonville in 2017 almost doing it with Blake Bortles or hope an average QB gets hot like Foles with the Eagles but those aren't the norms.  I'd rather bank on the odds by trying it the normal way that typically works and also tends to have legs that go beyond just that season's success. 

Speaking of bortles/jax ...your thoughts on minshew as a flyer for a year or two?...whether it be behind Alex or ahead of him.  

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Stone Cold said:

Speaking of bortles/jax ...your thoughts on minshew as a flyer for a year or two?...whether it be behind Alex or ahead of him.  

 

I am not a Minshew guy.    I think there is likely going to be a bidding war for the #3 QB in the draft either Fields or Wilson.  Reason being Cincy and SD right now are slated for the #3 and #4 spot in the draft and IMO Fields/Wilson are too good for them to just skip over the opportunity to get a bounty for them.  If so, within reason I might entertain trading up.

 

If not, if I had to run with a dude who might fall to our first round pick, I might ride with Mac Jones.  There are no likely veterans that tempt me at the moment.  Maybe Rivers but I am not enamored with him.  I think the veteran pickings are likely slim.

 

[Stone Cold]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am not a Minshew guy.    I think there is likely going to be a bidding war for the #3 QB in the draft either Fields or Wilson.  Reason being Cincy and SD right now are slated for the #3 and #4 spot in the draft and IMO Fields/Wilson are too good for them to just skip over the opportunity to get a bounty for them.  If so, within reason I might entertain trading up.

 

If not, if I had to run with a dude who might fall to our first round pick, I might ride with Mac Jones.  There are no likely veterans that tempt me at the moment.  Maybe Rivers but I am not enamored with him.  I think the veteran pickings are likely slim.

 

I’m a Jones guy as well.  Very cerebral qb.  Could easily fall and could easily develop into a solid starting caliber qb a la Alex smith

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Stone Cold said:

I’m a Jones guy as well.  Very cerebral qb.  Could easily fall and could easily develop into a solid starting caliber qb a la Alex smith

 

He doesn't have the mobility I normally would like but he has good footwork in the pocket.  Decent arm strength.  Quick release.  Good ball placement. Nice deep ball.  The hard thing differentiating with him is Alabama is such a juggernaut and so loaded that how much of his video game type numbers are inflated by that?  But he does seem to have an intriguing skill set.  i'd rather roll the dice on him than go with someone like Andy Dalton.

 

I do love both Zach Wilson and Fields and I'd at least entertain trading up if the price isn't crazy.  I didn't feel that way weeks back but I'e changed my mind. 

 

I've become very intrigued by exploiting the window we got here.  A cheap and good QB for the next 5 years would also help us keep more of our young stars when their contracts come up.

 

I just don't see the intrigue at the moment of any of these veteran band aide types unless the crop of possibilities change. 

[Skinsinparadise]

lol, just read a mock, I hope its not true, Mac is my favorite fallback QB, I need him to drop versus go early. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2021-nfl-mock-draft-mac-jones-third-qb-off-the-board-chargers-land-tight-end-with-no-4-pick/

 

PROJECTED TEAM Carolina

PROSPECT RNK 31st

POSITION RNK 5th

 

We're going to be saying this until draft night: the NFL is higher on Mac Jones than the media and by the time it's all said and done he could find himself a top-10 pick. He's played at a high level each week and while he's a traditional pocket passer there will be a market for his services from plenty of QB-needy teams.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Stone Cold]

Yeah, I’m in the no retread boat myself if we can somehow get our hat in the top 7-8.  When the season began, I was in favor of getting cam after his one year of no fun playing for bellichick.  But cams done.  
 

I’m not that sold on fields like most.  I don’t like the way he plays when rattled and I think that osu o really hides some of his flaws.  
 

idk....Wilson could be a stud.  It’s possible.  I like the idea of taking Jones, keeping our pics and riding with Alex til Jones is ready.  I think we’re built for that kind of qb.  The mobility thing bothers me a little too, but as long as he doesn’t prove pocket fumble prone, I’ll take the good with the bad.  Seems like he has the inner clock that would allow him to throw the ball away quickly to avoid too many sacks

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

lol, just read a mock, I hope its not true, Mac is my favorite fallback QB, I need him to drop versus go early. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2021-nfl-mock-draft-mac-jones-third-qb-off-the-board-chargers-land-tight-end-with-no-4-pick/

 

PROJECTED TEAM Carolina

PROSPECT RNK 31st

POSITION RNK 5th

 

We're going to be saying this until draft night: the NFL is higher on Mac Jones than the media and by the time it's all said and done he could find himself a top-10 pick. He's played at a high level each week and while he's a traditional pocket passer there will be a market for his services from plenty of QB-needy teams.

Id happily take him with our 1st and keep it movin with Alex til Jones is ready.  

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Stone Cold said:

Yeah, I’m in the no retread boat myself if we can somehow get our hat in the top 7-8.  When the season began, I was in favor of getting cam after his one year of no fun playing for bellichick.  But cams done.  
 

I’m not that sold on fields like most.  I don’t like the way he plays when rattled and I think that osu o really hides some of his flaws.  
 

idk....Wilson could be a stud.  It’s possible.  I like the idea of taking Jones, keeping our pics and riding with Alex til Jones is ready.  I think we’re built for that kind of qb.  The mobility thing bothers me a little too, but as long as he doesn’t prove pocket fumble prone, I’ll take the good with the bad.  Seems like he has the inner clock that would allow him to throw the ball away quickly to avoid too many sacks

Id happily take him with our 1st and keep it movin with Alex til Jones is ready.  

 

I agree with most of this except I am intrigued by Fields.  Among other things his mobility is special.    But overall i want a young Qb in this draft.  

[Long n Left]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Me too but I doubt he hits the market.  

 

If I had to guess it right now the best on the market will be Ryan Fitzpatrick and maybe Philip Rivers. 

Well, there exists a possibility of Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston, and Sam Darnold all being on the market this off-season. 3 guys I’d at least kick the tires on.

[Est.1974]

I think Mac Jones might go a lot higher than is being predicted on here.

 

As for Stafford, didn’t realise he was still only 32, turning 33 in February. He’s been incredible durable over the years. My concern, which is probably a very conservative one, is that I would worry at some stage he starts to fall apart. The guy is tough as nails. He’s taken some damage over the years. That will start to take its toll in my opinion. I see that as a risk.

[method man]

I am very anti settling for a Mac Jones in late rd 1. Yes, he has good deep ball accuracy but there isn’t a lot there. Why would you build around someone whose upside is league average QB? We’ve done that with Dwayne, Ramsey and Campbell and it hasn’t worked. It really kneecaps your upside and it also means the floor and base case scenarios = disaster.

 

I believe you either move a couple 1sts and a 3rd for Fields/Wilson (you’d have to get to #4 to lock it), trade a 2nd+ for Stafford or make the big splash & sign Dak, taking a bigger cap hit in Yr 1/Yr 2, before most of these young guys’ extensions kick in

 

Everyone needs to remember that the more well thought of a QB is, the better the FAs you’ll get. It ultimately worked out for us but Haskins was one reason Cooper, Hooper and other FAs passed on signing here last offseason

[Koolblue13]

8 hours ago, Long n Left said:

Well, there exists a possibility of Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston, and Sam Darnold all being on the market this off-season. 3 guys I’d at least kick the tires on.

Does Darnold have mobility? I don't know much about him. Winston and Wentz could be interesting. 

 

If Alex retires, Stafford would be interesting. 

 

I assume Allen is back with us as a back up.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Does Darnold have mobility? I don't know much about him. Winston and Wentz could be interesting. 

 

If Alex retires, Stafford would be interesting. 

 

I assume Allen is back with us as a back up.

 

I'd be surprised if the Lions make him available.  

 

As for Darnold, he has mobility.  He's not fast where he is a runner but at least in college he could extend plays, boot, make throws on the run.   Some concern with him about turnovers in college and boy has that played out in the pros.  He's been close to 1:1 TD-INT ratio with his worst season being this season where he's almost 2:1 INTs over TDs.

56 minutes ago, method man said:

I am very anti settling for a Mac Jones in late rd 1. Yes, he has good deep ball accuracy but there isn’t a lot there. Why would you build around someone whose upside is league average QB? We’ve done that with Dwayne, Ramsey and Campbell and it hasn’t worked. It really kneecaps your upside and it also means the floor and base case scenarios = disaster.

 

I believe you either move a couple 1sts and a 3rd for Fields/Wilson (you’d have to get to #4 to lock it), trade a 2nd+ for Stafford or make the big splash & sign Dak, taking a bigger cap hit in Yr 1/Yr 2, before most of these young guys’ extensions kick in

 

Everyone needs to remember that the more well thought of a QB is, the better the FAs you’ll get. It ultimately worked out for us but Haskins was one reason Cooper, Hooper and other FAs passed on signing here last offseason

 

I'd roll the dice with Jones over name that retread scrub in FA which I think we'd likely be choosing from in FA.  

 

But I am with you on Fields-Wilson.  I think both are potential studs.  Previously, I was reluctant to give up draft capital to trade up for them but now I've done a 180 on that because this roster is better than I thought.  In short, I think we can afford to lose some picks especially if it lands a QB.  

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Long n Left said:

Well, there exists a possibility of Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston, and Sam Darnold all being on the market this off-season. 3 guys I’d at least kick the tires on.

 

I seriously doubt Wentz is available.  Eagles have to take a monster cap hit.  

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/carson-wentz-and-his-contract-gives-eagles-worst-qb-situation-nfc-east#:~:text=Philadelphia signed Wentz to a,includes nearly %2470 million guaranteed.

 

Next season Wentz will count nearly $35 million on the Eagles salary cap, good for 17 percent of Philadelphia's total cap space. Don't forget either that the cap is expected to dip next year due to Covid expenditures, so that percentage will likely increase. 

Cutting Wentz is simply not possible. 

 

To release him in the offseason would bring a $59 million dead cap penalty. $59 million!

In 2022, Wentz will count $31 million on the Eagles cap, about 14 percent. Releasing him then would bring a $24.5 million dead cap penalty with about $7 million in cap savings. Still not realistic. 

By 2023, when Wentz will still count $34 million on the cap and about 14 percent of their spending room, the Eagles could release the former No. 2 overall pick. There's a $15 million dead cap hit but the team would save $19 million in space. 

[Koolblue13]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd be surprised if the Lions make him available.  

 

As for Darnold, he has mobility.  He's not fast where he is a runner but at least in college he could extend plays, boot, make throws on the run.   Some concern with him about turnovers in college and boy has that played out in the pros.  He's been close to 1:1 TD-INT ratio with his worst season being this season where he's almost 2:1 INTs over TDs.

 

I'd roll the dice with Jones over name that retread scrub in FA which I think we'd likely be choosing from in FA.  

 

But I am with you on Fields-Wilson.  I think both are potential studs.  Previously, I was reluctant to give up draft capital to trade up for them but now I've done a 180 on that because this roster is better than I thought.  In short, I think we can afford to lose some picks especially if it lands a QB.  

My guess is and has been that our QBs next year are Alex, Allen, Draft Pick, but since we are out of the top3 QBs, I guess it comes down to seeing if anyone rises or falls. If Jones rises, Lance may slide. Too hard to tell. 

 

I think we all know how much I hate QB talk lol. I'd much rather go with some elite skill position players with the first couple picks, so when we do get a QB of the future, he can slide into a well oiled machine and doesn't have to carry a lump of ****.

[Skinsinparadise]

Looking at the FA crop, another one in play maybe would be Jacoby Brissett.  I am far from enamored with the dude.  His career TD-INT ratio is good.  His completion percentage "meh" around 60%.  He has some mobility.   Indy got Rivers to moved on from him.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-quarterback-rankings-entering-week-14-2019

29. JACOBY BRISSETT, INDIANAPOLIS COLTS

Another quarterback whose stats look better than the on-field performance, Brissett ranks 15th in passer rating at 93.5 but just 29th in overall grade. He has the fourth-lowest percentage of positively-graded throws and his big-time throw percentage ranks just 36th. Those numbers show that the good passing numbers have come from other areas, and that’s backed up by 53.9% of his yards coming after the catch, good for the fourth-highest figure in the league. Brissett has settled in as a solid game manager, but he must improve upon his 70.7 passing grade when throwing 10+ yards down the field (33rd in league). 

[Est.1974]

The QB by committee approach of Smith/Allen looks the best option, with a rookie added to the mix.
 

If Smith is done, then Allen will be here on a 1m deal. That will be the benchmark to beat in free agency. Now that may not seem high, but I think Allen, with this D plus an aggressive free agency period (non QB but add a top WR) and solid draft gets us 8-10 wins next year.

 

Any free agent QB getting 25-30mil needs to exceed that benchmark in my opinion.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

My guess is and has been that our QBs next year are Alex, Allen, Draft Pick, but since we are out of the top3 QBs, I guess it comes down to seeing if anyone rises or falls. If Jones rises, Lance may slide. Too hard to tell. 

 

I think we all know how much I hate QB talk lol. I'd much rather go with some elite skill position players with the first couple picks, so when we do get a QB of the future, he can slide into a well oiled machine and doesn't have to carry a lump of ****.

 

The way this defense is playing is making me feel very ambitious at QB. 

 

I recall there was someone on this thread or another thread who kept harping on that its a joke and we'd be delusional to believe that a really good QB could do anything with this roster because of how far we are from being good and that person campaigned against chasing a QB accordingly.  Ironically for me the opposite of that point seems to the theme of this team right now.   You watch national NFL programs, listen to ex-coaches, players etc talk about this team their mantra is man imagine if they had a QB, wow.  I agree with that. 

 

I actually think if you put Russell Wilson on this roster they can make the SB.  Our defense isn't perfect but its almost the best in the league right now.  Gibson is a stud -- we need him back.  O line is better than advertised.  Thomas is better than I thought he'd be.  The young safeties are even playing well including Reaves.

 

Looking at the off season, we add an above average TE, WR, MLB and a QB and we can compete for the big dance.  M<aybe some O line and RB depth.  We can't fix everything but no team can.  Every team has holes even KC.  I am not intrigued to try to replicate the 2017 Jacksonville formula in part because they didn't win a SB but also because it only lasted a season.    I don't think it has to be either or where you either have a dominant defense without a franchise QB or a franchise QB without a dominant defense.  We are in a window where we can do both.   This roster IMO can do much better than the 2015-2017 - early 2018 ones where we were mostly good but rarely great.  I think we can be great if we find that QB.   I think this defense should make us feel more ambitious and more aggressive.