Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, wit33 said:

I’m going to get crushed for this, but I’d rather have Newton than Rivers if both come available. Just abundantly clear with each year the QB must be able to make throws outside the pocket to win consistently. Josh Allen was 15-20 with two tds today outside the pocket lol.  Exceptions exist and Rivers certainly qualifies, but just a preference for the elite mobile QB. Once again, if all things were equal, I may lean River’s direction, but with Newton’s great history with Rivera and scheme he has more value to Washington than another team. 

 

I am with you as to favoring mobility.  I am big time into it.  But from what I saw Newton at this time is a really poor passer.  I could take an average passer who can run.  But heck NE had a good defense but their offense was bad with Newton.  Yes they could use more weapons but Newton's accuracy wasn't good.

 

18 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

This team isn't much different than the Colts - a QB. We would probably have similar results that they had with Rivers. I would take a season like the Colts had in a heartbeat. 

 

It's exactly what I was thinking watching it.  Don't get me wrong, he's far from my top choice.  But if we went with FA's, the pickings are looking slim. 

[Est.1974]

2021. We need a QB. In fact we probably need 2, a veteran and a rookie.

[Warhead36]

Colts have a little more talent than we do. We'd probably be 9-7 with Rivers, not 11-5.

 

But we can do better then that. Rivers is washed.

[FootballZombie]

54 minutes ago, ultravin said:

i would not be surprised if Dak Prescott ends up with us.  Dallas cannot afford to tag him again.  they only have 22 million in cap space.  they would have to restructure a lot of contracts in order to keep Dak.  it would be best for the cowboys to move on without him.  

 

They would have to hurt themselves pretty bad to tag him again. Their best play is to give him the contract he wants, and backload it so his first year cap hit is only 20 or so, making the other years like 45. FA is before the draft and it will be very difficult for Dallas to commit any kind of money to anyone without first solving the QB situation and figuring out what kind of cap space they are looking at. (both in the black and in the red) Their entire offseason is handcuffed until that problem is solved, so I'd be shocked if it is not sorted out before FA.

 

It will be interesting to see what Indy will do at QB. could re-shape the whole playing field

[wit33]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am with you as to favoring mobility.  I am big time into it.  But from what I saw Newton at this time is a really poor passer.
 

 

He’s always been a “poor passer” (whatever definition that is) If he was great, he’d be the GOAT lol. 
 

Statistically this was his second highest completion percentage year. Just would support it if that was the move Ron chose to make. Newton, Trey Lance, and Kyle Allen sounds like an elite QB room to me for next year. Alright, I’m out on the Newton support until something substantial comes out in the off season lol.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Colts have a little more talent than we do. We'd probably be 9-7 with Rivers, not 11-5.

 

But we can do better then that. Rivers is washed.

 

I think we are closer than that.  We have the #2 defense.  They have the #8 defense.   They are better on offense and Rivers is part of that.  I am far from in love with Rivers as an option.  But if you add a few weapons on offense this offense which I am sure we will do -- I don't think the 2020 Colts would be stacked versus the 2021 WFT.

 

Rivers is a mile from being a top choice of mine but I'd take him over some of the options thrown out here by some others like Darnold, Brissett, etc.  If you can tell me Heinicke plays tonight like Rivers did, I would say we have at least a fighting chance against Tampa assuming our defense rises to the occasion. Rivers performance today was well above average by the standards of our QBs this season IMO.   

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

He’s always been a “poor passer” (whatever definition that is) If he was great, he’d be the GOAT lol. 
 

 

As a fan of Cam in Carolina, i get your point.  But from the games I watched, he wasn't even close to being the same dude.  And I am not going on some wild leap here -- many have said the same.   

 

6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Newton, Trey Lance, and Kyle Allen sounds like an elite QB room to me for next year. Alright, I’m out on the Newton support until something substantial comes out in the off season lol.

 

 

 

you throw in Lance off handily in that mix.    Getting him would likely be the aggressive QB move of the off season.  If they do both him and Cam fine.  They can for all I care sign Josh Rosen if they get Lance.  Lance would be the main get. 

Edited January 9, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

RR has a chance to get Newton last year and it's obvious to me he has no interest to have Newton on the WFT next year or following.  He traded for Kyle Allen.  We'll see how TH does tonight.  He might earn a spot on the roster.  Then you have us drafting a QB in the draft and possibly signing a FA QB but as SIP said there are slim pickings. 

[Thinking Skins]

Dag, did anyone see what Everson Griffin said about Cousins? 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I'd add Cam's 8 TD with 10 INT interception -- more INTs than TDs was not only atrocious but also wasn't business as usual for Cam.   It was by a mile a career low for him.  

6 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Dag, did anyone see what Everson Griffin said about Cousins? 

 

 

There is a whole thread devoted to mostly trashing Kirk in the around the NFL thread.  They'd eat that up.  Here its off topic.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[moondog]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Colts have a little more talent than we do. We'd probably be 9-7 with Rivers, not 11-5.

 

But we can do better then that. Rivers is washed.

Would rather have rivers on a modest contract through free agency than trading picks for someone...and then also paying big money for them. 

[Going Commando]

51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

From what I gathered about the Rivera hire, Dan probably wouldn't have a shot at someone at his caliber unless he gave up that kind of control.   Jason Wright is in charge of the business side of the organization.  He's even said his niche isn't football personnel.  We got arguably the worst owner in the NFL and one of the worst in sports in general.   Rivera has had to clean up a lot of crap to establish a culture.  He didn't handle it perfectly but by and large did a nice job.  The FA crop was one of our best in the last 20 years.  Good draft, too.  The players seem to love him.  The O line is suprisingly decent.  The D finally lived up to its potential.  They are playing in the playoffs.  I think he's off to really good start.

 

I do agree that I'd rather have the GM in charge as opposed to the coach.  So I don't disagree with your point on that front.  My only potential disagreement is the dude actually IMO did a really nice job in season 1 both as to coaching and personnel.  No one is going to be perfect.  Belichick screws up too.  And I think with our clown of an owner, we wouldn't get a dude like Rivera unless we put out more red carpet than other teams did.   Sort of like what the Raiders had to do to get Jon Gruden.  They like us were a clown organization and you aren't typically getting top people unless you give up more. 

 

No other team would have given Rivera this level of power though.  No other coach in the NFL has this level of power TBH, he has control over virtually every facet of the organization.  It's too much for any coach IMO, and the guy with final say over player personnel needs to be a full time personnel man.  Relationships between players and coaches and staff can frequently be difficult and good GMs find ways to make it all work and get the best on-field product possible.

 

I'm not advocating for Jason Wright to have player personnel power, but I think the natural role of the team president is to hire and organize the front office.  Wright could go to Rivera for input, but if Rivera is making the decision, it's clear then that he's the GM's boss rather than the other way around.

[Stone Cold]

If heineke balls out tonight...go head and mark me down as wanting him to be our incumbent qb.  Something about hometown boy making good when no one gave him a chance.  I’ll take it

[Skinsinparadise]

38 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

No other team would have given Rivera this level of power though.  No other coach in the NFL has this level of power TBH, he has control over virtually every facet of the organization.  It's too much for any coach IMO, and the guy with final say over player personnel needs to be a full time personnel man.  Relationships between players and coaches and staff can frequently be difficult and good GMs find ways to make it all work and get the best on-field product possible.

 

I'm not advocating for Jason Wright to have player personnel power, but I think the natural role of the team president is to hire and organize the front office.  Wright could go to Rivera for input, but if Rivera is making the decision, it's clear then that he's the GM's boss rather than the other way around.

 

Seattle is similar.  NE, too.   We've alternated in Dan's era from a model like this to a GM-Dan puppet model.  Vinny/Dan in control for Spurrier/Zorn.    Bruce/Dan in control for Jay.  Coach with final say with Marty, Shanny, Gibbs and now Rivera. 

 

From what I read the only one of the coaches who acted behind the scenes as the defacto GM was Shanny who fancied himself a personnel guru.  the others from what I read listen to their personnel people and just mostly act on their recommendations including Rivera.  

 

I do prefer a strong GM over a coach final say model.  The issue with this type of organization is Dan seems to co-opt the GM and prefers BFFs/toadies in that position versus a personnel stud.    Dan is the wild card in all of this because he is really the defacto GM.  It comes out time and time again that he interferes and overrules the scouts/personnel department -- not always -- but his pet position is QB, that's where he seems to interfere and make the final call and I don't just mean on Haskins.  

Edited January 10, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

I'd take Rivers as a vet starter too.

[CapsSkins]

If Rivers wants to come back I feel like Indy would just re-sign him. Already in their system and just led them to 11 wins.

[Burgold]

I know it's a really small sample size, but I'm warming to the idea of letting Hienike and Allen fight it out for a starting role and drafting the best second or third round draft pick we can get. We may have accidentally found someone pretty good in Hienike.

 

I still don't want to trade heavy assets for a QB.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Burgold

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, Stone Cold said:

If heineke balls out tonight...go head and mark me down as wanting him to be our incumbent qb.  Something about hometown boy making good when no one gave him a chance.  I’ll take it

He really is balling out at halftime. He actually looks better than Allen...or Haskins lol

[Est.1974]

4 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I know it's a really small sample size, but I'm warming to the idea of letting Hienike and Allen fight it out for a starting role and drafting the best second or third round draft pick we can get. We may have accidentally found someone pretty good in Hienike.

 

I still don't want to trade heavy assets for a QB.

we have good back ups. Need a long term starter

[Burgold]

Thing is, I wonder if Hieneke is good enough to be that bridge starter if we can find a second or third rounder who with some seasoning can become our franchise guy. He looks really solid.

[DWinzit]

Well, based on Heinicke's play I can't see him not in Burgundy and Gold next year. I believe he would be a RFA.

Same with Allen who is an ERFA. 

That leaves Smith I 'd say he will not be back regardless of how he feels physically. Will be interesting how that plays out with his contract....the dumbest contract in NFL history

Edited January 10, 2021 by DWinzit

[Anselmheifer]

Heinicke looks great, but honestly, he doesn’t look durable enough to be a 16 game starter.

[DefinitelyMaybe]

Taylor Heinicke deserves all the plaudits and rewards coming his way, that was absolutely fantastic that’s the first time a Washington QB has made me feel alive like that since Kirk

 

Whilst if if that was Dwayne Haskins putting on that kind of show we’d all be talking about how he’s going to be the guy to take us forward, Im gonna stop short of handing Heinicke a coronation as QB1 next season, but I’d certainly like it if he was QB2 in the mix with another fresh face

[Burgold]

7 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Well, based on Heineke's play I can't see him not in Burgundy and Gold next year. I believe he would be a RFA.

Same with Allen who is an ERFA. 

That leaves Smith I 'd say he will not be back regardless of how he feels physically. Will be interesting how that plays out with his contract....the dumbest contract in NFL history

Smith was an amazing story this year and wrighted the ship when it was three-quarters under water. I think he proved what he needed to prove,  but also showed that he just can't be a sixteen game QB anymore. I think he should take comeback player of the year and ride off into the sunset.

[mhd24]

Just now, Anselmheifer said:

Heinicke looks great, but honestly, he doesn’t look durable enough to be a 16 game starter.

 

 

Yeah, but to be fair, he was just signed.  An off-season with a legit NFL weight program will give up some muscle, but he's still slight.  He reminds me of a smaller Tony Romo or even Jeff Garcia.

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, DefinitelyMaybe said:

Taylor Heinicke deserves all the plaudits and rewards coming his way, that was absolutely fantastic that’s the first time a Washington QB has made me feel alive like that since Kirk

 

Whilst if if that was Dwayne Haskins putting on that kind of show we’d all be talking about how he’s going to be the guy to take us forward, Im gonna stop short of handing Heinicke a coronation as QB1 next season, but I’d certainly like it if he was QB2 in the mix with another fresh face

Nah, he deserves an honest shot at QB1. If he gets beat out he gets beat out, but those two games were both amazing.