Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[KillBill26]

23 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

2023 and 2025 1st, 2022 and 2024 2nds, Jon Bostic and Jeremy Reaves.  Done!

Haha, it's funny my first thought was "well, technically troy apke and thomas davis started, so, we got a deal?"

[megared]

2 hours ago, justice98 said:

 

Probably only because they didn't know what they were doing.  I suspect if he went somewhere where he had confidence in the front office and coach, he wouldn't be expecting input.  But even then, part of his irritation is they promised him input and reneged.  Ron would never promise such a thing to begin with.  Houston shouldn't have either.

 

You can't say that when his reasoning for wanting out was being left out of ownership decision making.  His original unhappiness stemmed from them trading Hopkins.  Do you really think Ron is going to seek his approval before he makes roster changes,  or hires front office personnel? 

 

Or that Ron's going to intentionally bring in someone to tempt Snyder's worst instincts?   

[heyholetsgogrant]

Garafolo says Jimmy Garoppolo is staying with the 49ers in 2021

https://www.ninersnation.com/2021/1/31/22258286/49ers-garafolo-garoppolo-2021-staying-draft-offseason-plan

Edited January 31, 2021 by heyholetsgogrant

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Remember, it isn't official until March 17. So, either team can back out before that date.

That basically never happens.  

[bowhunter]

I think one thing that we sometimes overlook is that RR wants the entire team to buy in. It's why he mentioned the importance of wins vs tanking. The building of a culture and most certainly the need for optimism in HIS teams eyes. We also know the C.Young and other teammates jumped on the Heine -a-...KEY bandwagon. The optimism was infectious at that time. But should Shiney Hiney falter or appear human during the season, there is no pedigree for his teammates to latch on to. I would hope that RR saw the very same thing we all saw from Heinecke during that moment, and I don't feel he is forgetting it either. We won't fully know until training camp is underway, but I feel that RR wouldn't mind an upgrade at QB, if simply as something to unite his team. So if it's not an obvious upgrade, we'll stay put. So I think that dismisses the Darnolds and Trubiskys out there.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, heyholetsgogrant said:

Garafolo says Jimmy Garoppolo is staying with the 49ers in 2021

https://www.ninersnation.com/2021/1/31/22258286/49ers-garafolo-garoppolo-2021-staying-draft-offseason-plan

Good. I have little to zero interest in the Jimmy G’s and Sam Darnolds of the world.

 

1) Dak if he hits open market (won’t)

1b) Rookie QB (Wilson, Fields or Lance)

3) Derek Carr for a 3 or less. 
 

If that all fails I roll with the room and try to get Shane Buechele in the draft.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

35 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

I wouldn’t trade two defensive starters

I would if it was Landon Collins and Bostic. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Its not calling or Ron to go because that's the extreme version of it. He's a good coach, but player evaluation is not his specialty. Heck he even makes mistakes coaching (time managment at the end of games and end of halves). 

 

Ron is human so I expect him to make mistakes. I am human so I expect to make some myself. The thing is that I'm not going to automatically support or veto any move because of the source. Even if its a Dan move, I've got to just hope that he gets lucky for once. But heck just like you evaluate players in the draft and can say we should have picked X over Y and its not a knock on Kyle Smith or the GM or anybody else, its just saying that you disagree. And I disagreed with the Haskins moves and others. Its not saying that I'm going to renounce my fandom or become some anti-Ron guy. Just voicing disagreements on a message board. 

 

But hey, if he comes in and plays Tribusky and we go on to win 12 games next year, I'll just put a zipper over my lips about it and go on to the next situation that frustrates me. 

 

For me though there is a major difference between me having takes on players in the draft and this.   This is about thinking your head coach is a bit dense about players he has in house that he sees everyday and in Allen/Heinicke's cases he has had for years on and off.   And Haskins he had the dude in practice everyday.  He had a ton of more information about him than we do.  Yet you thought he totally blew it with Haskins and now you suggest he might be screwing it up with Heinicke, too.   

 

If I thought i had a better feel for in house personnel and how to judge and treat them than the head coach did who is interacting with said players a ton, I wouldn't think that much about that head coach's judgment.   I am not talking about minor questions about play calling and stuff like that.  i am saying if Rivera and Scott Turner had a Drew Brees clone in house for years and it escapes them even after watching practice after practice -- they'd have to be pretty dense I'd think?

 

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[tmandoug1]

Just like to reiterate one thing...Rivera thought highly enough of Heineckiie to start him in a playoff game after kicking our #1 draft pick off of the team. I was in the Stafford camp but not in the Watson camp because of the 2 Acl injuries someone posted about. Lets get a  (cheap) Trubisky, Winston, Carr, Taylor in here and let them compete for next year. 

[CapsSkins]

I don't see why people are down on Derek Carr. He had great stats and beat Mahomes for christ sake, almost twice this year! Only 29 yo. Why not try to pry him away from LV?  

 

Edit: Carr is 29, not 207. My b

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by CapsSkins

[NoVaSkins21]

Even though Rivera interested big time, Stafford wanted to go west and they dodged a huge bullet by not mortgaging their future.  They need to stay away from Watson and focus on what they have or FA.  

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Good. I have little to zero interest in the Jimmy G’s and Sam Darnolds of the world.

 

1) Dak if he hits open market (won’t)

1b) Rookie QB (Wilson, Fields or Lance)

3) Derek Carr for a 3 or less. 
 

If that all fails I roll with the room and try to get Shane Buechele in the draft.

 

 

I am ok with Carr, don't love him, doubt we can get him for a three.  But still no indications that the Raiders are shopping him at least nothing yet.

 

I don't want Darnold or Jimmy G.

 

I'd trade up for Wilson, Fields or Lance but I am not willing to give up the ridiculous draft capital which it likely will take to do it.

 

I think we are likely screwed at QB.  But will see.

 

8 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Just like to reiterate one thing...Rivera thought highly enough of Heineckiie to start him in a playoff game after kicking our #1 draft pick off of the team. I was in the Stafford camp but not in the Watson camp because of the 2 Acl injuries someone posted about. Lets get a  (cheap) Trubisky, Winston, Carr, Taylor in here and let them compete for next year. 

 

Not sure if elevating any of our Qbs over Haskins is a badge of honor though.   Judging by how Rivera still kicked on Haskins even after he left -- I'd bet there are few Qbs right now in the league that Rivera doesn't judge more highly over Haskins.

 

Judging by the beat guys, Heinicke is valued as a backup but isn't considered by them as QB1. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KillBill26]

1 hour ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

Theres news coming out that texans are looking for 2 firsts 2 seconds and 2 defensive starters.

2021 and 2023 1st round pick

2022 and 2024 2nd round pick

Matt ionnidis

Landon collins (cap hits don't look as bad when signing bonus portion is removed, still only 28). I know he can't pass a physical right now, so that might be a problem.

 

If they expect sweat or young on top of those draft picks, they can go pound sand.  I'd consider payne or curl, but I'd lessen the draft pick compensation if they're included.

 

If that doesnt get it done, move on.  Watson is definitely not a do whatever it takes situation.

 

[Renegade7]

Feels good knowing we came close. We tried. We on a mission.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

I don't see why people are down on Derek Carr. He had great stats and beat Mahomes for christ sake, almost twice this year! Only 27 yo. Why not try to pry him away from LV?  

 

I like but don't love Carr.   But I wonder why people think he's going to be traded?  There is always rumblings that Gruden is in love with QBs in the draft and may move on but it hasn't happened yet.  To that point, I wonder if they wait to the draft to make a move?  

 

The hard thing about waiting for the draft is that you just don't know what happens until the game unfolds and you react on the fly so whether its trading up or lets say the Raiders land a QB and try to unload Carr right after, etc.

Just now, Renegade7 said:

Feels good knowing we came close. We tried. We on a mission.

 

That's my positive takeaway too.  Clearly they are on a mission.  Question is does anything materialize next that's worth chasing hard?

[CapsSkins]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like but don't love Carr.   But I wonder why people think he's going to be traded?  There is always rumblings that Gruden is in love with QBs in the draft and may move on but it hasn't happened yet.  To that point, I wonder if they wait to the draft to make a move?  

 

The hard thing about waiting for the draft is that you just don't know what happens until the game unfolds and you react on the fly so whether its trading up or lets say the Raiders land a QB and try to unload Carr right after, etc.

 

There's been enough smoke about Carr that I don't think it's pure fan speculation. But people here are valuing him at a 3rd or lower?

 

I wouldn't open with this, but I'd trade 19 for Carr. And would Gruden really say no to an offer like that when he has Mariota, whom he digs, on the roster and a cap situation to work through also?

[goskins10]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

What Keim was saying there and I've heard other say similar things before if everything is equal WRs would want to go to the teams with the big time QBs.  If anything for selfish reasons which includes they are more likely to produce big stats with the bigger QBs which equals down the road to more $$$$$

 

Heck if I am Allen Robinson, i'd rather play with Matt Satfford than Kyle Allen so if the money was the same i'd go to LA.  Yeah Rivera later on might upgrade the spot but that's an unknown.  But as Keim and others say money talks, so if you outbid teams you likely get the targeted player regardless of the QB.  But if the WR weights two similar offers, which happens, some agents have told Keim they'd push them towards the better QB.

 

I understood all that before. My point was Kiem was way over simplifying things. What Keim is missing (IMO rather purposely leaving out) is that he, nor any of us, know what Ron's plan is yet and that his plan at QB and for that WR may be better than what it would be with Stafford. So just becasue on the surface there is a perceived better QB situation somewhere right now does not mean it's the better situation for that WR depending on the teams overall plans and that includes what the offense will be and what part of it they will play in that offense. If they intend to go after a high priced FA they will surely explain that plan. Some may not want to trust him but others will. The benefit of Ron ios he has a great track record with players already. 

 

I know you like Kiem and do not dislike him as I think he typically more on it than most of the others. However, he still does things for clicks. It's a nice oversimplified sound byte that gets fans riled up to - Skins suck at QB so no FA would want to come here without getting way overpaid - which that is exactly what he is saying.  I believe that is incredibly over simplified for the reasons I stated above.  

 

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Agree.  But wonder what Plan B is because nothing hits me that obvious.  Keim and Finlay say Watson if he hits the market but I'd be shocked if they could pull that one off.  As we know, QBs are so much harder to find than other spots. But its possible they have something up their sleeve.  Will see.

 

 

Not directed at you - we complain when they let things leak and then complain when we do not know every detail of what they are thinking and assume since we don't know they must be idiots and have no idea what they are doing. 

 

Landing Stafford or Watson was always a long shot. And honestly so is getting into the top 5 of the draft for one of the top QB prospects. So unless they go crazy we are looking at other options. But hey, maybe they throw the house at the Texans. I am Ok with that. But if not, Ok with that too. It is what it is. They can't just **** out a great QB lol   

 

There is always the continue to build the team and try again next year plan - NOT to be confused with the "we should fill all our many holes first" line of thinking. That is one that makes no sense. If you wait till you have the perfect roster you never pull the trigger on anything. When I say wait till next year, it's to see if conditions are more favorable and we get the type QB that we want. In the meantime we can continue to go about fixing the other holes we have. 

 

 

[ExoDus84]

2 hours ago, sportsnut said:

Assuming we won’t get Watson or dak, how would you rate the other options?

 

My ranking...

1.  Tua or Darnold in that order depending on who gets Watson

2.  Fitz

3.  Heineke 

4.  Others - Mariotta, Trubisky, Tyrod, Cam

 

My heartburn increased significantly just reading the majority of the options you listed. A fatty "Hell No!" to every bolded QB listed. Mariotta and Trubisky are prime options if you're seeking a tank commander. Cam? Dude threw like 8 TD's in 14 games last year, and was wildly inconsistent. He's done. When Darnold isn't seeing ghosts, he's overthrowing open receivers and fumbling.

 

I'd take Fitz on a 1 year deal as a stopgap vet. We need to think long term, though. Allen/Heineke are young, but offer very limited upside IMO. Those guys won't ever take us deep into the playoffs.

[Mooka]

11 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

I don't see why people are down on Derek Carr. He had great stats and beat Mahomes for christ sake, almost twice this year! Only 27 yo. Why not try to pry him away from LV?  

 

Its because he signed a big contract in 2016 after the Raiders went 12-3, but he followed that up with a relatively poor season and the Raiders haven't had a winning season since.

 

Mainly though, IMO Raiders won't trade him for less then a first round pick. 

[Darth Tater]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am ok with Carr, don't love him, doubt we can get him for a three.  But still no indications that the Raiders are shopping him at least nothing yet.

 

I don't want Darnold or Jimmy G.

 

I'd trade up for Wilson, Fields or Lance but I am not willing to give up the ridiculous draft capital which it likely will take to do it.

 

I think we are likely screwed at QB.  But will see.

 

Until proven otherwise since the last franchise QB we got in the first was Baugh, I am of the opinion that if we trade up to select a QB, he will be one of the two busts in that group. By the way, the only first round QB I don't think has a significant bust chance is Trevor (mostly because Trevor had a good game despite a rough start against Alabama on the big stage when he was a true freshman).

[Thinking Skins]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For me though there is a major difference between me having takes on players in the draft and this.   This is about thinking your head coach is a bit dense about players he has in house that he sees everyday and in Allen/Heinicke's cases he has had for years on and off.   And Haskins he had the dude in practice everyday.  He had a ton of more information about him than we do.  Yet you thought he totally blew it with Haskins and now you suggest he might be screwing it up with Heinicke, too.   

 

Its not like I'm calling Ron incompetent, I'm just stating a difference of opinion. If Ron thought so low of Heinicke why wasn't he on a roster all year? Dude played well enough to be on a roster. Just look at what Dallas and Denver put on the field at QB this year. Its the same argument I had with Bibbs vs Marshall? Bibbs gets benched and Marshall misses a block and our QB goes down for 2 years. Its obvious that Heinicke can play but I do think that Ron undervalued him and I think he's continuing to do that if he trades for one of these mediocre QBs who has a ceiling of being the 16th best QB in the league. 

[mistertim]

Sucks that we lost out on Stafford. That trade was a bit too rich for us I suppose. Glad we didn't overpay, but now we're right back in QB purgatory. I wonder if Rivera and Co. are going to look more towards a 2nd tier trade (Carr maybe?) or perhaps figure out a way to move up in the draft.

 

I'm completely uninterested in bargain bin stuff like Tyrod Taylor, Mariota, etc. Just no point. If you're thinking that low then you might as well just roll with Allen/heinicke and play whichever is healthiest on a week to week basis.

 

One thing that sucks is that this will make it much harder to land good FA WRs. Unless they're 100% about the money and nothing else (in which case I wouldn't want them) then no top FA WR in their right mind will jump at a chance to come to a team where they'll have Alex Smith, Kyle Allen, or Taylor Heinicke throwing to them (and also probably not know which one from week to week). None.

[ExoDus84]

22 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Good. I have little to zero interest in the Jimmy G’s and Sam Darnolds of the world.

 

Jimmy G is a bad QB, but you can't deny he sure is pretty. Watching that jaw line while he throws for 120 and a pick might be worth it.

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

Jimmy G is a bad QB, but you can't deny he sure is pretty. Watching that jaw line while he throws for 120 and a pick might be worth it.

 

WHY ARE YOU GUYS WRITING OFF HEINICKE'S AMAZING LOOKS? EVEN TOM BRADY CAME UP TO HIM AFTER THE GAME AND TOLD HIM HE WAS IN AWE OF HOW MUCH OF A HEARTTHROB HEINICKE IS!

[Koolblue13]

Im glad you people are all staying calm and rational.