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2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

zCommander

By zCommander
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JamesMadisonSkins

JamesMadisonSkins

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Ion better be treated like a 2nd vs a 3rd. We have to remember he is on a great contract for 2 more years

 

Depending on the trade chart you use ... Rich Hill Chart = Ion is valued at around a 4th ... Jimmy Johnson the value is a late 3rd based on the other picks involved.

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Ion better be treated like a 2nd vs a 3rd. We have to remember he is on a great contract for 2 more years

 

If Allen or Payne are worth a 1st, so is Ioan (I honestly don't think we'd get a 1st for any of them). Though his injury history is a concern. In his last full season (2019), Ioan was by far our best interior DL. He was also by far our most double teamed guy, but he still put up 8.5 sacks. Look where Allen and Payne are compared to where Ioan is.

 

 

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DWinzit

DWinzit

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I can't imagine how. If you look at it objectively they're two UDFAs. One of them has been so-so but is coming off of a major season ending injury and the other has only started 2 games since 2015. Yes Heinicke played well vs TB, but a team isn't going to give up draft picks based on that.

Just wondering if worth anything. Allen does have experience and both are cheap but I get it, that's why I inquired

7 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

Like him a lot especially in coverage. If could just be a little more aggressive against the run and working through the trash he would be an awesome fit

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Jericho

Jericho

Posted
Posted

I feels like there's this huge disconnect with some in the media and QB reality. One example being the inflated prices thrown around concerning Sam Darnold. Lately I've seen some push the Davis Mills in the first round crap. And now there's this:

 

 

Lesson. Don't believe the hype

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Darrell Green Fan

Darrell Green Fan

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, GothSkinsFan said:

You're all over the place.  First, you can't think of a great D that doesn't/didn't have "really good" or "great" LBs.  "Really good" and "great" are different.  You seem to be saying "really good" can do it.  So we don't need "great".  Then you bemoaned our elite DL getting gutted by poor LB play, implying that average (or perhaps "adequate", which is situationally-relative) LB play would've avoided the gutting.  Pick a soapbox and make your stand, but don't make 3-card monte out of it.  I've been very clear that we don't need great LB'ing (though I'm not against it so long as we don't trade the farm for it) but that we need good-enough-to-cover-the-elite-DL's-back.  Think about this for a moment:  if we have LBs who can deal with the "holes" (no pun intended) in the DL, allowing the DL to dominate the rest of the NFL so bad that other teams forfeit, then we don't need great LBs because that would be a waste -- if an adequate LB can unleash the DL, what else is the great LB going to do that's not being done by the GOAT DL?  So then why throw assets we really need elsewhere to get a great LB who's going to be unnecessary beyond what an adequate LB would be?

 

"So yeah I'd be all over Parsons if that can happen affordably."  And you end up agreeing with what I said (assuming we have the same definition of affordably, which to me is not a 3rd this year and a 2nd next year).

 

I am not all over the place at all.  "Great" is a very high bar.  How many defenses have truly great linebackers?  There are only a handful in the entire league so getting 3 is unrealistic, so I used the term very good as well.  Point is there is a huge difference between a very good linebacker and Jon Bostic. 

 

So yes I feel linebacker, specifically MLB, is the biggest need on this team.  I can't think of one top defense that had LBs at the level of Bostic and Harvey Clemons as starters. Can you?  I would love to have an impact LB like Parsons.  But I also think with a deep draft a 3rd this year and a 2nd next is a big price to pay when there are so many other needs on this team and with other really good LBs in this draft.  

Edited by Darrell Green Fan
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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I am not all over the place at all.  "Great" is a very high bar.  How many defenses have truly great linebackers?  That's unrealistic so I used the term very good as well.  There is a huge difference between a very good linebacker and Jon Bostic. 

 

So yes I feel linebacker, specifically MLB, is the biggest need on this team.  I can't think of one really good defense that had LBs like Bostic and Harvey Clemons as starters. Can you?  I would love to have an impact LB like Parsons.  But I also think with a deep draft a 3rd this year and a 2nd next is a big price to pay when there are so many other needs on this team and with other really good LBs in this draft.  

I don't want to get into the semantics of the hairs being split between you guys, but I agree that MLB (along with FS) are the only two absolute holes on our team. Lots of spots we could upgrade, but they are just holes.

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DWinzit

DWinzit

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I don't want to get into the semantics of the hairs being split between you guys, but I agree that MLB (along with FS) are the only two absolute holes on our team. Lots of spots we could upgrade, but they are just holes.

I agree, LB especially. If WFT doesn't get one of these guys, I would be pissed. 

Parsons, Collins, Jamin, JOK, Cox, Werner, Moses, McGrone, or Rice. 

Deablo could help me feel slightly better but LB must be upgraded

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

I agree, LB especially. If WFT doesn't get one of these guys, I would be pissed. 

Parsons, Collins, Jamin, JOK, Cox, Werner, Moses, McGrone, or Rice. 

Deablo could help me feel slightly better but LB must be upgraded

At least one. I'd probably split them up Parsons, Collins, Davis, Werner, Moses and JOK, Cox, Rice as far as inside/outside guys and one from each group before day 2 is over. 

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Fresh8686

Fresh8686

Posted
Posted (edited)

What's people's read on Monty Rice? I wasn't all that impressed with his 2020 tape and found him to be stiff and lacking in lateral agility. His RAS backs that up, however I heard he was playing with injuries this year and haven't dove into his 2019 tape.

 

A later Day 3 guy I kind of like who would be in a similar mold as Khaleke Hudson would be Boston College's Isaiah McDuffie. That guy is fun to watch and even though he's on the small size he comes in like a missile to lay the wood.

 

I read that some scouts have Dylan Moses off their draft board completely, due to medicals. I feel bad for the kid and hope he can prove to people he still has gas left in the tank.

 

I'm also curious about Nick Niemann in the hopes the he could be a high upside guy we could mold into something like Cole Holcomb.

 

 

 

Edited by Fresh8686
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DWinzit

DWinzit

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

At least one. I'd probably split them up Parsons, Collins, Davis, Werner, Moses and JOK, Cox, Rice as far as inside/outside guys and one from each group before day 2 is over. 

Would love 2 of them, just certain not certain with all the holes they will go with 2....but they should!

 

I am hoping at least one of these guys and a FS. I am sure they want to go heavy on the other side with T, TE, RB, WR, QB and maybe G plus possibly CB, edge and even DT

1 minute ago, Fresh8686 said:

What's people's read on Monty Rice? I wasn't all that impressed with his 2020 tape and found him to be stiff and lacking in lateral agility. His RAS backs that up, however I heard he was playing with injuries this year and haven't dove into his 2019 tape.

 

A later Day 3 guy I kind of like who would be in a similar mold as Khaleke Hudson would be Boston College's Isaiah McDuffie. That guy is fun to watch and even though he's on the small size he comes in like a missile to lay the wood.

 

I read that some scouts have Dylan Moses off their draft board completely, due to medicals. I feel bad for the kid and hope he can prove to people he still has gas left in the tank.

I see Rice as 5th-6th. He is late than all the others I posted. I have not seen or heard of any medicals on Moses. He was my crush heading into the 2019 season. I hope is healthy

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dswerdlw

dswerdlw

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, mistertim said:

A 4.9 40 at under 200 pounds is pretty insane. And it wasn't just the 40. He tested in the 1-2 percentile in most major drills.

 

What the hell was he doing during the season when he opted out??

I watched Paris Ford play against my town's high school team in the PA State quarterfinals. He made our team look like we were standing still. I'd never seen that kind of speed on a high school field. So I'm completely shocked that he ran a 4.9. If that's his true speed at this point in his life, I'm shocked and kind of sad.

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Fresh8686

Fresh8686

Posted
Posted

 

I'm higher on Lance than I was in the beginning of the year, because of how much I've learned about his intangibles and pro-style preparation that includes setting protections. Plus, I'm encouraged by how he's improved his delivery from his last game to his pro days.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

 

I'm also curious about Nick Niemann in the hopes the he could be a high upside guy we could mold into something like Cole Holcomb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ironically was watching him today, almost done with my LB rankings along with stats attached, he's in that group.   There are a bunch of guys IMO in that 5th-6th roound range with similar ability:  Ernest Jones, Hillard, Fields, Wallow, Niemann.  Neimann is a well rounded LB, not great at any one thing IMO but decent against the run and the pass.   He finds himself around the ball a lot which a like.  His tackling is a bit clunky but he gets the job done -- wonder if that would work in the pros IMO he needs to be taught to get low and wrap around better. 

 

The dude that hits me that isn't one of the more obvious guys that I really like is Derrick Barnes.   He's a fun watch for me.  He's a baller.    He's my fav sleeper type in that group. 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Darrell Green Fan

Darrell Green Fan

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

SF is definitely going to take Fields. I have no doubt. The offense he was able to run with RG3 was nasty and Fields is immensely better. 

 

Why aren't ATL and Det not being considered for a QB? That  makes zero sense.

Yeah I'm thinking this as well. I have no idea why people are dropping Fields in their mocks.  It's just impossible for me to believe San Francisco and make that investment to move up for a giant risk in Lance or quarterback in Jones with so many limitations.

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clskinsfan

clskinsfan

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

The rumor now is that the 49ers are taking Lance at 3

 

Could we move up for Fields?

If true this actually would shock me. Giving up what they did for a guy that has played NOTHING. I dont get it. I mean even his pro day workouts were just OK. Maybe this the draft where I am finally proven to know nothing about what I see on tape. To me Lance is 2 years away from even being on the field. But whatever. I will go down with my ship.

3 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

Please YES. He is a second round steal waiting to happen. 

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

If true this actually would shock me. Giving up what they did for a guy that has played NOTHING. I dont get it. I mean even his pro day workouts were just OK. Maybe this the draft where I am finally proven to know nothing about what I see on tape. To me Lance is 2 years away from even being on the field. But whatever. I will go down with my ship.

SF is taking Fields and I have zero doubt about it.

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