BBC: China pneumonia outbreak: COVID-19 Global Pandemic

[PeterMP]

 

4 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

That's an interesting evolution of Covid-19.

Not really the first one to appear as I believe 2 cats and a dog already got the virus, that they supposedly got from their owner/master/however you call that.

 

I think we are not paying too much attention to these case, in the media, but I do hope our scientist are monitoring those closely, though I doubt it.

 

For years and centuries, we were taught by science that viruses do not jump from animals to humans like that, they have to mute before this and going through an animal with similar genes like us. Usually the pig. Now it seems to be able to move from species with ease and quickness, which is kinda scary. Some might be downplaying it because that's just 3 cases. But that's just 3 cases that were tested, who really know the numbers about that?

 

Clearly not good news to me which could turn this to be really, really bad.

 

It isn't uncommon for viruses to infect a relatively large number of closely related organisms.  Viruses aren't generally completely organism specific.  Rabies is one well known case where it will infect pretty much any mammal.

 

I doubt it had to mutate to infect the cats.

 

It isn't even all that clear how much it had to mutate to infect humans initially.  One possibility is that was able to infect humans directly from its previous host, and then once in humans mutated into this more pathogenic strain.  (the key protein to infecting humans from the civet version of the virus will bind to (poorly) the human protein that they must bind to enter human cells so could have potentially at low levels infected humans.  It isn't completely unreasonable that this virus has been being passed back and forth between humans and civets (or some other host) for years where humans were poorly infected and human-human transmission was low to non-existent until some particular change that allowed it to spread more easily in humans.) 

 

The cat protein that the viruses must bind to infect hosts is more similar to the human protein than the civet protein is to humans, including in the area where the viral protein binds.  If the civet infecting virus can bind to the human protein, then it is likely the human version of the virus binds better to the cat protein than the civet virus to the human protein.  And therefore cats are even more likely to be infected by the human version of the virus then humans from the civet or bat form of the virus.

Edited April 6, 2020 by PeterMP

[PeterMP]

5 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I don't believe that we could have prevented this with a different president.  Maybe mitigated it a little bit more, but every 1st world country in the world has this thing.  While I don't watch Trump's briefings, I also don't blame him for it.

 

The question of complete prevention is whether some of the actions Trump took before we knew it was an issue could have prevented it from even leaving China.  In that regard, we were a world leader, and those are things that other countries don't do.  So I do think it will always be a question if Trump wasn't President would the rest of the 1st world have it.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-cdc-exclusiv/exclusive-u-s-slashed-cdc-staff-inside-china-prior-to-coronavirus-outbreak-idUSKBN21C3N5

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/trump-scrapped-pandemic-early-warning-program-system-before-coronavirus

 

If we don't cut those programs are we (and therefore the rest of the 1st world) better informed earlier and China better able to cope with the problem from the start and it never leaves China (or at least Asia).  That's an unknowable thing, but certainly possible.

 

From there, yes it could have been handled better.  Even among 1st world countries, it is clear that some countries have done a better job (Germany) than others (US).

[The Evil Genius]

29 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I don't believe that we could have prevented this with a different president.  Maybe mitigated it a little bit more, but every 1st world country in the world has this thing.  While I don't watch Trump's briefings, I also don't blame him for it.

 

We could have been more like Germany and less like Italy. Not to mention the absolute failure of the Trump administration to test for it because the orange toddler didn't want positive cases to hurt his reelection bid.

Edited April 6, 2020 by The Evil Genius

[Springfield]

7 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

We could have been more like Germany and less like Italy. Not to mention the absolute failure of the Trump administration to test for it because the orange toddler didn't want positive cases to hurt his reelection bid.

 

It will be interesting to see how countries led by conservative leaders fare after this compared to countries led by liberal ones.

[dfitzo53]

36 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

Note that it isn't the job of posters here to accurately assess coming global pandemics. 

No, but it is the job of posters here to argue minute details and unverifiable hypotheticals into the ground.

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, dfitzo53 said:

No, but it is the job of posters here to argue minute details and unverifiable hypotheticals into the ground.

 

You should be happy you even have a job in this economy 

[goskins10]

9 hours ago, Califan007 said:

NSFW - language....but hilarious and spot-on. Never heard of OAN before this, either lol...:

 

John Oliver

 

 

Thanks for posting. I don't watch enough John Oliver. I typically catch up on him on planes across the ocean when i have an international trip. But obviously don't have any of those right now. 

 

OAN rose in prominence with the whole QAnon conspiracy which it fecklessly promoted the deep state theory with the brilliant premise that despite the outward bickering, trump and Mueller were working together to take down the the deep state from within. They also promoted such great conspiracies like the one about democrats and Hollywood elites running a pedophile slave trafficking ring out of the basement of a downtown DC Pizzeria that does not have a basement. That was quickly followed by the Seth Rich murder conspiracy. These are just a few of the many incredibly dangerous conspiracies from the extreme right shamelessly promoted by OAN. 

 

As even some parts of Fox have found themselves calling trump out for some of his idiocy, he has turned to OAN because as you see they traffic in pure right wing extremist hate, misinformation and conspiracy - you know the things our toddler in chief thrives on. And as you heard him say, "They are very good to me!" That being such a important job of the press - to be nice to the president - NOT! 

Edited April 6, 2020 by goskins10

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

46 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I don't believe that we could have prevented this with a different president.  Maybe mitigated it a little bit more, but every 1st world country in the world has this thing.  While I don't watch Trump's briefings, I also don't blame him for it.

Prevent it, no. 
 

Mitigate it better, absolutely without a shadow of a doubt.

 

The whole “it’s a hoax” deal isn’t fancy editing, that’s real.  Getting rid of the pandemic response team, that’s real.  Willfully ignoring medical and science professionals, still even to this day, that’s real.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

34 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Thanks for posting. I don't watch enough John Oliver. I typically catch up on him on planes across the ocean when i have an international trip. But obviously don't have any of those right now. 

 

OAN rose in prominence with the whole QAnon conspiracy which is has fecklessly promoted the deep state theory with the brilliant theory that despite the outward bickering, trump and Mueller were working together to take down the the deep state from within. They also promoted such great conspiracies like the one about democrats and Hollywood elites running a pedophile slave trafficking ring out of the basement of a downtown DC Pizzeria that does not have a basement. That was quickly followed by the Seth Rich murder conspiracy. These are just a few of the many incredibly dangerous conspiracies from the extreme right shamelessly promoted by OAN. 

 

As even some parts of Fox have found themselves calling trump out for some of his idiocy, he has turned to OAN because as you see they traffic in pure right wing extremist hate, misinformation and conspiracy - you know the things our toddler in chief thrives on. And as you heard him say, "They are very good to me!" That being such a important jop of the press - to be nice to the president - NOT! 

 

 

Holy ****... 😐

 

This is too surreal to be reality lol...I don't even know what to say to that.

[NoCalMike]

32 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Prevent it, no. 
 

Mitigate it better, absolutely without a shadow of a doubt.

 

The whole “it’s a hoax” deal isn’t fancy editing, that’s real.  Getting rid of the pandemic response team, that’s real.  Willfully ignoring medical and science professionals, still even to this day, that’s real.

 

Yeah, Trump has sort of just got a pass somehow over the whole "it's a hoax" portion of his response to this for the first month or so.  Not that he hasn't been called out by the normal media outlets, but he hasn't seemed to have paid any political price from his supporters for the fact that he was either surrounded by unqualified & incompetent people (at his choice, probably still is too) or willingly went against all the advice and information he was getting from the medical community in hopes this virus would just "go away" on it's own.   Another example of Trump being an awful commander in chief beyond it being about political persuasion. 

[No Excuses]

6 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

I agree with 90% of what you say, but GD hindsight is a ***** and this post aged like milk.  I disagreed with you then, but if Trumps tupee was president instead of him you might of been right.

The bungled response from Trump aside, a virus with a high R0 was going to spread around the world with ease. If the virus really started spreading in mid-November, then we most likely had infected cases outside of China as early as late-December, which is when the first reports came out just within China. This virus was going to become a pandemic just by the nature of its biology: highly infectious with transmission even from asymptomatic people. 
 

The impotent response by Trump et al made this situation much worse but I want you to take a step back and look at the technological side of things. We’re well on target towards vaccine approval within 12-18 months and there are multiple novel therapeutics about to undergo clinical testing as early as June (not counting the existing therapeutics already being tested). And if the FDA is on top of things, the new drugs can even be ready for distribution by fall/winter.

Thats a level of biotech advancement and sophistication that will likely allow us to neutralize and contain a viral respiratory disease that is highly contagious within the span of ~1 year since it was first discovered. 
 

I think it would have been very likely that if we didn’t have an administration hostile to science, expertise and diplomacy that we would have not only contained the virus within our borders without resorting to mass shutdowns, but also led the global response and mobilization against it. This entire crisis has been a case study on the perils of isolationism and weak American foreign leadership, which I don’t see as an institutional failure. This was a political failure, that rests on the people who decided that matters of life and death can be entrusted to a reality TV gameshow host.

[No Excuses]

12 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Not that he hasn't been called out by the normal media outlets, but he hasn't seemed to have paid any political price from his supporters for the fact that he was either surrounded by unqualified & incompetent people (at his choice, probably still is too) or willingly went against all the advice and information he was getting from the medical community in hopes this virus would just "go away" on it's own. 

Maybe not his most hardcore supporters, but we are starting to see in polling that a chunk of people who voted for Trump are starting to hold him responsible for the bungled response. 

 

 

[The Evil Genius]

2 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

We could have been more like Germany and less like Italy. Not to mention the absolute failure of the Trump administration to test for it because the orange toddler didn't want positive cases to hurt his reelection bid.

 

I'm going to quote myself and say in retrospect I shouldn't have singled out Italy. I'm not sure they did anything wrong at the beginning and it appears that aggressive testing there led to higher case numbers. So I think I  was wrong in saying be less like them..

 

 

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 Willfully ignoring medical and science professionals, still even to this day, that’s real.

 

To the point that the orange toddler didn't allow Dr. Fauci to answer the question about hydroxychloroquine yesterday.

 

Trump literally cut Fauci off and told him not to answer questions about the drug. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by The Evil Genius

[Dan T.]

15 hours ago, FanboyOf91 said:

 

 

 

Hmmmm...so a group of states, in America, united in a common purpose.

 

They could call themselves the United States of America. What an interesting and novel concept. 

 

It could work great as long as they don't choose a bumbling psychopath as their leader.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Looks like we have done almost twice as many tests as any other country... so we seem to be making progress there...

[PCS]

 

 

 

 

[StillUnknown]

 

[The 12th Commandment]

6 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

I've put that on Facebook a time or two and by far the most likes come from exactly who I'm thinking of when I post it.

[Dan T.]

2 hours ago, Springfield said:

 

It will be interesting to see how countries led by conservative incompetent leaders fare after this compared to countries led by liberal competent ones.

 

Fixed.  Because that's the issue, not political ideology.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Dan T.

[The Evil Genius]

2 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

 

Fixed.  Because that's the issue, not political ideology.

 

Is being anti-science only a US conservative position?

[Jumbo]

this is an fyi/fwiw-----please do not respond to the post in this thread

 

 

2 hours ago, dfitzo53 said:

No, but it is the job of posters here to argue minute details and unverifiable hypotheticals into the ground.

 

 

and on the more serious end of that observation, i'll remind that i have made it clear more than once that people who overdo the mis/disinformation or engage in repeated over-reach in these matters may be called out and have their posting privileges restricted in one of several ways including bans

 

but especially these days i'd rather not take such actions, and mods typically give a lot of rope and numerous warnings anyway, so if ya get nailed, ya likely had your share of free passes previously

 

beyond partisan politics, the people here who have demonstrated consistent credibility to the other people here with the wherewithal to recognize it, and have solid credentialed professional standing in the field(s) under examination are one thing and bog-standard internet opinionators with keyboards and self-inflated egos who talk out their ass on any number of matters as a regular occurrence are another thing on such a serious topic

 

know your role jabroni 

 

a few will have thoughts like "but what about own ego/biases" or "who are you to make that kind of call" or maybe even get to "oh, an 'appeal to authority' fanboy"...to those i'd say you're in an ego-challenged cognitive moment and you should let it pass and maybe try thinking again

 

btw, really reading the rules page can provide enlightenment ...or just remain in the "well, that's bs" space and deal with it

 

so i'm sayin' watch your p's and q's on this stuff, inc. rule 5---if you get a directive from a mod, follow it and do so without pestering the mod with your worldview on moderating es

 

 

 

 

 

[No Excuses]

5 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Is being anti-science only a US conservative position?

 

It's hard to pinpoint this precisely but if you view it on a scale, the GOP is on an island of itself in terms of anti-science parties in developed countries. At this point, they aren't even anti-science. They are openly hostile to all forms of expertise, from economic to scientific, and aggressively hostile towards college education. The closest analog in the modern developed world is maybe Australia's current ruling party that also engages in a fair amount of anti-science nonsense but it's tame compared to the insanity present in the GOP.

 

[Captain Wiggles]

Peter Navarro's PHD is in economics. Dude can barely handle that subject competently. Like Trump the people around him think they know everything and pretend to be experts on every subject. What a bunch of jabronis. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

I did find it strange that the trade dude picked chloroquine as the hill to die on in the situation room. I hope it works but I wouldn’t get into an argument with a doctor about it...

Edited April 6, 2020 by CousinsCowgirl84

[purbeast]

8 minutes ago, clietas said:

Peter Navarro's PHD is in economics. Dude can barely handle that subject competently. Like Trump the people around him think they know everything and pretend to be experts on every subject. What a bunch of jabronis. 

I have a degree in computer science. 

 

I know just as much as the virologists because I'm a scientist.