The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby

[JSSkinz]

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

A little disappointed in the quality of waiver talent after cutdowns.  Very few juicy draft pick cuts other than guys we already knew were scrubs like Tega-Wanogho.  Very few interesting TEs other than Jordan Howard I suppose.

 

 

 

 

Accurate analysis given that we didn’t attempt to sign anyone off waivers. I could actually imagine Riverboat looking over the waiver list in a meeting with coaches and scouts yesterday and saying exactly what you said above. 👍🏿

 

 

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Would be a missed opportunity to not claim anyone on waivers in a year where we've got the second spot and a roster that has the least amount of offensive skill talent in the league.

Normally I would agree but it is such a pedestrian list. I must admit Sully caught my eye like he did SIP's. 

[Going Commando]

Missed an opportunity to add at least a little talent.  We've had a very unaggressive offseason, weak trades, weak FA period despite having cap space, unaggressive in UDFA and waiver period.  It feels like a symptom of a lack of having a real full time GM.  I do not know that this kind of collaborative approach is going to work.  We're just not really doing enough with player personnel to drastically improve the roster and compete with the top franchises.

[bakedtater1]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Missed an opportunity to add at least a little talent.  We've had a very unaggressive offseason, weak trades, weak FA period despite having cap space, unaggressive in UDFA and waiver period.  It feels like a symptom of a lack of having a real full time GM.  I do not know that this kind of collaborative approach is going to work.  We're just not really doing enough with player personnel to drastically improve the roster and compete with the top franchises.

Good stuff here..cant say I dont disagree...superbowl win or bust this season is a wash..expect what your looking for next season 

[Malapropismic Depository]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Missed an opportunity to add at least a little talent.  We've had a very unaggressive offseason, weak trades, weak FA period

 

I wouldn't call it a weak FA period. Not great, but not weak.

We added some key players, some of whom will be starters, including two #1 Strings - at Corner and TE (in fact, our #1 and #2 TE's)

Darby, Thomas, Baugh, KPL, Davis, Allen, some depth at OL which we will need.

Could have been better, and could have addressed more pressing needs, but not bad.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Missed an opportunity to add at least a little talent.  We've had a very unaggressive offseason, weak trades, weak FA period despite having cap space, unaggressive in UDFA and waiver period.  It feels like a symptom of a lack of having a real full time GM.  I do not know that this kind of collaborative approach is going to work.  We're just not really doing enough with player personnel to drastically improve the roster and compete with the top franchises.

I really disagree with this line of thinking.  I think it’s because Ron has said over and over he wants to evaluate the guys he’s got on the roster.  This isn’t a “win now” year. This is a “evaluate and save money for next year” year.  
 

Could they have picked up a WR or TE after cuts? Probably.  But why?

 

Look, they KNOW they are weak at WR and TE, they tried to get aggressive with both positions and lost out in FA.  Given that, they’re standing pat and evaluating who they have on the roster. 
 

If Kyle Smith sees somebody who is an upgrade, young, and could be part of the long term solution, they’d sign them tomorrow.  

[justice98]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But I'd go Robert Foster as #1 WR target today.   He plays some Z too, so I think a good fit.   Tall with 4.4 speed, timed once in the 4.3's

 

https://www.thesunchronicle.com/sports/local_sports/patriots-notebook-bills-speed-may-force-jones-out-of-slot/article_7f45aa22-0668-5b82-89c3-0ec17ed1ffed.html

I don’t know if he’s faster than (Robert) Foster, you’d have to ask somebody else that,” Belichick added. “I’m not with both those guys, but I don’t know who would be faster than Foster. They have really good speed, so Foster’s fast, Brown’s fast, (Isaiah) McKenzie’s fast, they could put (Andre) Roberts out there too. So, they’ve got some fast guys if they want them. And they do. They roll them in there, they use them, but I don’t know if anybody could take the top off the defense better than Foster could. He can really run. We saw that last year. 

 

 

Foster to the Packers practice squad, so with our waiver priority, we just weren't interested.  But I was with you on that idea. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Missed an opportunity to add at least a little talent.  We've had a very unaggressive offseason, weak trades, weak FA period despite having cap space, unaggressive in UDFA and waiver period.  It feels like a symptom of a lack of having a real full time GM.  I do not know that this kind of collaborative approach is going to work.  We're just not really doing enough with player personnel to drastically improve the roster and compete with the top franchises.

 

 

But aren’t you the gentleman that said the following after the list of waived players was released:

 

“A little disappointed in the quality of waiver talent after cutdowns.  Very few juicy draft pick cuts other than guys we already knew were scrubs like Tega-Wanogho.  Very few interesting TEs other than Jordan Howard I suppose.”

 

Perhaps Rivera, the coaches, and the scouts, held a similar opinion and simply decided that there were no assets available via waiver claim, at positions of need, that were appreciably more desirable than the players they already had. So they elected to go with the guys they had seen all off season and who had been toiling hard to make the team.

 

Claiming someone just because you have the waiver priority to do so seems like a fan pleasing, ego driven, act. A sugar rush quick fix with no lasting long term benefit. We’ve had years of seeing how that plays out. 

 

Why not take the more difficult road of showing confidence in, and continuing to develop, the players you already have. For that to work you

need patience, trust, and most of all experienced coaches that can teach young men- we finally have that in spades.

 

Change is a hard process that that this organization hasn’t had the spine for in the past. Hopefully, that’s changing before our eyes.

 

Sometimes both the wisest and hardest thing to do is nothing at all.

[bakedtater1]

Let go and let the pros

[Anselmheifer]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/09/06/saints-tried-sign-and-trade-deal-for-clowney-offered-a-pick-for-other-team-to-take-cap-hit/

 

Is this real? If so, WTF did we not do this? 

[Voice_of_Reason]

33 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/09/06/saints-tried-sign-and-trade-deal-for-clowney-offered-a-pick-for-other-team-to-take-cap-hit/

 

Is this real? If so, WTF did we not do this? 

Why didn't we try to do something that didn't actually work?

[NickyJ]

34 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/09/06/saints-tried-sign-and-trade-deal-for-clowney-offered-a-pick-for-other-team-to-take-cap-hit/

 

Is this real? If so, WTF did we not do this? 

Probably because the NFL told the Saints they couldn't do it lol

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Look, they KNOW they are weak at WR and TE, they tried to get aggressive with both positions and lost out in FA.  Given that, they’re standing pat and evaluating who they have on the roster. 
 

If Kyle Smith sees somebody who is an upgrade, young, and could be part of the long term solution, they’d sign them tomorrow.  

 

It's not really being aggressive if you target one or two guys in free agency, don't sign them because they went beyond your limit, and then you pass on the class with the thought that you'll try again next year.  There were certainly players available in UDFA and on the waiver wire that are better than players on our roster right now.  Maybe only a handful, but they're out there--we're one of the worst teams in the NFL.  I absolutely do not think Kyle Smith is empowered to make rapid changes to the roster.

 

This year long timeline of evaluating the roster is really emblematic of the lack of aggression and a sort of unifying central vision in our personnel department.  It's something that is happening because we don't have a real GM and nobody is empowered to create a plan for a build and just go to work on it.  As an example of another organization going through the same thing as us, Carolina already turned over 30 roster spots.  They'll take their lumps this year and probably get Trevor Lawrence or some **** and then be on their way to rapid improvement. 

 

I'm just not convinced that we've done enough to set ourselves up for a turnaround like that.  We're stuck in this holding pattern, secretly wishing the season would be canceled.  We don't even have a mascot, don't know even know if our owner will be here this time next year.  Don't have a real GM.  Have a young guy that we've given some of the job and power too, plus a coach who we've given some of the job to, which is an organizational structure that rarely works well.  Nobody has all of the job or all of the plan or all of the power.  So you see a very timid approach to free agency despite our resources.  A total lack of involvement in the aggressive, rapid-fire markets of the UDFA and cut-down waiver periods.  Bad value trades that are basically just poorly-timed so that we're selling low.  A hohum draft where the value wasn't as great as it could have been given how high we picked in the rounds.  If it was really out there, that freaking sign and trade deal for Clowney would have been perfect for us.  Why wouldn't we do that?

 

It feels like the machinery of the front office is just moving far too slowly and they're missing opportunities.  Great teams typically have a great GM who is empowered to create the plan and whenever an opportunity comes along they can say "we're doing this" and it happens.  I honestly think you need something like that to stay ahead of the churn that is putting together an NFL roster, and compete at the highest level of the sport.  Maybe we found a great coaching staff, which is a big step forward if true.  But I think great coaching can only carry you so far given how brutally competitive the league is.  You need that great front office too and they need to be full time personnel guys.  I'm not sure we have that, and I'm not sure how far we can really get in a build until we do.

[carex]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

It's not really being aggressive if you target one or two guys in free agency, don't sign them because they went beyond your limit, and then you pass on the class with the thought that you'll try again next year.  There were certainly players available in UDFA and on the waiver wire that are better than players on our roster right now.  Maybe only a handful, but they're out there--we're one of the worst teams in the NFL.  I absolutely do not think Kyle Smith is empowered to make rapid changes to the roster.

 

This year long timeline of evaluating the roster is really emblematic of the lack of aggression and a sort of unifying central vision in our personnel department.  It's something that is happening because we don't have a real GM and nobody is empowered to create a plan for a build and just go to work on it.  As an example of another organization going through the same thing as us, Carolina already turned over 30 roster spots.  They'll take their lumps this year and probably get Trevor Lawrence or some **** and then be on their way to rapid improvement. 

 

I'm just not convinced that we've done enough to set ourselves up for a turnaround like that.  We're stuck in this holding pattern, secretly wishing the season would be canceled.  We don't even have a mascot, don't know even know if our owner will be here this time next year.  Don't have a real GM.  Have a young guy that we've given some of the job and power too, plus a coach who we've given some of the job to, which is an organizational structure that rarely works well.  Nobody has all of the job or all of the plan or all of the power.  So you see a very timid approach to free agency despite our resources.  A total lack of involvement in the aggressive, rapid-fire markets of the UDFA and cut-down waiver periods.  Bad value trades that are basically just poorly-timed so that we're selling low.  A hohum draft where the value wasn't as great as it could have been given how high we picked in the rounds.  If it was really out there, that freaking sign and trade deal for Clowney would have been perfect for us.  Why wouldn't we do that?

 

It feels like the machinery of the front office is just moving far too slowly and they're missing opportunities.  Great teams typically have a great GM who is empowered to create the plan and whenever an opportunity comes along they can say "we're doing this" and it happens.  I honestly think you need something like that to stay ahead of the churn that is putting together an NFL roster, and compete at the highest level of the sport.  Maybe we found a great coaching staff, which is a big step forward if true.  But I think great coaching can only carry you so far given how brutally competitive the league is.  You need that great front office too and they need to be full time personnel guys.  I'm not sure we have that, and I'm not sure how far we can really get in a build until we do.

 

only 17 players were claimed off waivers this year, cut by a third.  Teams have four extra spaces on the practice squad, preseason IR players can be activated during the year.

 

no one is being aggressive this year.  Plus we had no preseason games to look at other people's tapes

[Malapropismic Depository]

4 hours ago, NickyJ said:

Probably because the NFL told the Saints they couldn't do it lol

 

Isn't it similar to the Osweiler trade from Houston to Cleveland ?

[Conn]

59 minutes ago, carex said:

 

only 17 players were claimed off waivers this year, cut by a third.  Teams have four extra spaces on the practice squad, preseason IR players can be activated during the year.

 

no one is being aggressive this year.  Plus we had no preseason games to look at other people's tapes

I get what you’re saying but finding market inefficiencies and exploiting things that other teams aren’t doing efficiently is part of what good, or at least hungry and innovative, franchises do.

[Conn]

57 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Isn't it similar to the Osweiler trade from Houston to Cleveland ?

Sort of, but Osweiler was on an existing deal so the Texans has already eaten his signing bonus, what was left was the remaining guarantees and cap hits. In this case the Saints wanted to pay someone a draft pick to also eat the signing bonus which is kinda unheard of and a grey area in the rules as far as I understand. 

[nonniey]

6 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/09/06/saints-tried-sign-and-trade-deal-for-clowney-offered-a-pick-for-other-team-to-take-cap-hit/

 

Is this real? If so, WTF did we not do this? 

Because a 2d next year will not have the same value as 2d in normal times it will be a total crap shoot with the inability to assess rookies this fall.  That said if they could have gotten a 2022 1st then that may have been a good idea (as 2022 will likely be more valuable than normal).

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I get what you’re saying but finding market inefficiencies and exploiting things that other teams aren’t doing efficiently is part of what good, or at least hungry and innovative, franchises do.

I don’t disagree.  The original point was the reason we’re not being aggressive is because we don’t have a GM.  I take issue what that statement.  
 

I think evaluating the current roster and carrying as much cap room into 2021 as possible is the plan.  
 

I’m also sure at this point in the process, if there is a guy you want to sign who’s been cut or waived, it’s got to be a collaborative decision between coach and FO because camp is done, and you’re SO close to the season, you don’t have time to really evaluate.

 

I personally don’t think not having an official GM is what’s causing us to be overly cautious.  My opinion, of course.

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, carex said:

 

only 17 players were claimed off waivers this year, cut by a third.  Teams have four extra spaces on the practice squad, preseason IR players can be activated during the year.

 

no one is being aggressive this year.  Plus we had no preseason games to look at other people's tapes

 

This is a case where it hurts to split personnel duties between a group of people, many of whom are coaches.  You need your player personnel guys--the ones who are empowered with final say to sign/trade/draft/cut players--to be full time IMO.  A cooperative approach can lead to harmony in the decision-making process, but I think it's clear that it's a slow.  Too slow to fully take advantage of very rapid talent acquisition periods like UDFA, the draft, and the waiver claim period.

 

Coaches have an enormous workload just doing the regular duties of the job.  It's reasonable that they can't really make decisions without stuff like preseason games to help them.  That's why you need dedicated personnel men whose job is to know everything about every player in every class so they can say, "X player got cut?  I know what he can do, he's a good fit here, we're calling his agent."  I can tell that's not how our front office is operating.  Instead, decisions have to be run through committee.  So perhaps Kyle Smith likes player X who just became available and goes to the coaching staff and says "I want to sign player X and cut player Y" and the staff says, "I don't know, I like Y.  Y played through an ankle injury in camp and was a good soldier about it."  And  Kyle Smith knows in his gut that X player is definitely better than Y, but is it really worth the fight for a third TE or 4th corner or wide receiver?  So no change is made and the opportunity is missed.  And it wouldn't be a costly failure in isolation, but the missed opportunities add up and over time, the result is your roster never makes the leap to high level competitiveness.

[KillBill26]

14 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Why didn't we try to do something that didn't actually work?

We've been doing that better than any other team the last 25 years!

[max21]

Let’s go get Hakeem Butler, even Wikipedia knows he’s aight 

[Jericho]

and also not a surprise as they brought him in yesterday, but 

 

 

[carex]

two spots to go