Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[Voice_of_Reason]

39 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

This might actually be true......but it seems to me that quite a few posters believe this EVERY SINGLE YEAR!!!

 

 

I thought this last year.  And since last years roster is basically the same as this years + the draft picks and Wentz, I think this roster is a bit better.  
 

I have thought every roster from 2017-2020 was deeply flawed.  
 

So I’m not an every year guy.  But I think this roster is the best since 2016 at the least, and maybe better than the 2016as well.

[seantaylor=god]

On 5/6/2022 at 1:20 PM, Conn said:

This is so ****ing weird to say about such a recent #2 overall “generational” prospect but I don’t even think about Young when I think about the team and it’s prospects. Not in a negative way, I’m not down on him necessary, I think it’s just a bizarre instance of cognitive dissonance where I know his ceiling and how important he is to our potential success as a defense/team…but simultaneously our defense and DL somehow performed better after he was out for the year, which makes no sense. So it’s almost like I don’t trust what he can bring to the table even though he should easily be one of the team’s unquestioned top 3 assets. 

For me, I’ve basically written him off as being an average player until he proves his mettle. He was great as a rookie, sucked last year before injury, and now there is a question for me if he will be as explosive/dynamic as he was his rookie year. He was always billed as more of a athlete than a technician (Doc Walker criticizes his lack of moves and a lack of a plan of attack). He needs to grow a lot.

[Thinking Skins]

28 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

For me, I’ve basically written him off as being an average player until he proves his mettle. He was great as a rookie, sucked last year before injury, and now there is a question for me if he will be as explosive/dynamic as he was his rookie year. He was always billed as more of a athlete than a technician (Doc Walker criticizes his lack of moves and a lack of a plan of attack). He needs to grow a lot.

I don't think this is fair. We glamorize Sean Taylor but he struggled too for a year. Part of Chase's problem could have been him simply going against a murders row of QBs last year, like the rest of our defense. Let's not forget the plays that we're taken back from him. Even if he's another Orakpo or Kerrigan or even Arrington, it's a powerful weapon for the defense. Let him grow. 

[Koolblue13]

I think this guy will be back just fine.

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Koolblue13

[CommanderInTheRye]

He's got it physically but he needs to become a true student of the game.

 

He needs more discipline, a better understanding of his place within the defensive scheme and most critically some real coaching from someone who understands the tactics, techniques and strategies needed to consistently beat quality offensive linemen (not just scrubs) in under 3 seconds on the way to the qb.

 

In many ways imo Chase didn't really develop much at all after his junior year at OSU. That is our fault as an organization as much as his.

 

I have serious questions about the quality of the coaching he and the other dline are getting but that's not changing anytime soon.

 

We shall see.

[TheShredder]

On 5/22/2022 at 9:05 PM, CommanderInTheRye said:

I have serious questions about the quality of the coaching he and the other dline are getting but that's not changing anytime soon.

Jack DelTaco is clearly the most disappointing part of the defense literally plastered with 1st round picks being wasted. His scheme is predictable and flawed to the point of being the worst most exploitable 3rd down D in NFL History. Remarkably they made no effort to address that. It's the definition of negligence. The lies being told about putting players in position to make plays for what they do best needs to be called out. It starts with William Jackson being forced into being a zone CB, extending to Chase Young and Jamin Davis. Head scratching miss allocation of talent equal to forcing round pegs into square holes. Complete failure by the Jackass!

[CobraCommander]

26 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

 His scheme is predictable and flawed to the point of being the worst most exploitable 3rd down D in NFL History.

Which is what I feel like we’ve been saying ever since Gregggg Williams left after having a top tier defense flying around the ball every down. We’ve had so many defensive coordinators with decent backgrounds come in and just be so predictable and frustrating.

[TheShredder]

9 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

Which is what I feel like we’ve been saying ever since Gregggg Williams left after having a top tier defense flying around the ball every down. We’ve had so many defensive coordinators with decent backgrounds come in and just be so predictable and frustrating.

They draft this "Generational Talent", then don't create opportunities to allow him to go off. LT became great because they basically let him freelance and play by instinct. Not on every down but when opportunities presented themselves it was 100% go make a play. There needs to be a more creative way to use your talent or history is going to repeat.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, TheShredder said:

They draft this "Generational Talent", then don't create opportunities to allow him to go off. LT became great because they basically let him freelance and play by instinct. Not on every down but when opportunities presented themselves it was 100% go make a play. There needs to be a more creative way to use your talent or history is going to repeat.

Counter Point: They give him the opportunity to go make a play and he was washed inside easily. 
 

He played with poor technique last season. Not only was he undisciplined but he didn’t attack OTs, he tried to trick them and then got dominated.

 

He needs to be better.  They can let him do whatever, but he wasn’t even coming remotely close to winning 1:1 matchups.  
 

Step 1 to being a play maker, beat the guy in front of you.  If you can’t do that you’re stuck.  LT wouldn’t just beat the guy in front of him, he’d bludgeon them and then the next guy and go make the play. 

[TheShredder]

On 5/22/2022 at 8:53 PM, Koolblue13 said:

I think this guy will be back just fine.

He's inline to start slow, again, if at all by being placed on the PUP with a few OL'men and Logan Thomas. The likelihood that this team starts off with a full roster only gets less likely with camp soft tissue injuries. The fact they didn't address being the worst 3rd down D in NFL HISTORY is negligent. Opting to run it back with the same scheme and less personnel is literally being ignored. I don't see how Chase Young thrives in this scenario.

[FootballZombie]

2 hours ago, TheShredder said:

I don't see how Chase Young thrives in this scenario.

 

I'm of the mindset that him and the rest of the Dline will improve via facing a less daunting gauntlet of QBs alone.

Gotta be in the game to do it though, I don't know Young's return window. I thought he was slated to be back before the season and doubted they would give him any burn in preseason.

[TheShredder]

1 minute ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I'm of the mindset that him and the rest of the Dline will improve via facing a less daunting gauntlet of QBs alone.

Gotta be in the game to do it though, I don't know Young's return window. I thought he was slated to be back before the season and doubted they would give him any burn in preseason.

Yeah, his reconstruction was the idea behind not expecting him to be 100% by week 1. Even if what is being said is true, "the plan" wouldn't point to him being a Week 1 100% fully healed, in football shape, and immediately impactful. I'd guess "the plan" would be somewhere between available for Week 1-4. Why risk a 3rd season start on a player you want for the future. If he pushes rehab he'll develop tendonitis in both knees and risk prolonged full recovery. Unless he has some miracle Adrian Peterson experience than the PUP could be part of the real plan.

[NoCalMike]

When it comes to the 2021 Defense (the D-line) specifically, the reason I am hopeful for a rebound from Chase (and Sweat too) is because when they went out with injuries, it's not as if the DE's who replaced them turned heads with their immense talent level, it was more that they were just playing within the scheme, and in unison with the interior DL.  If Chase & Sweat just do that, instead of trying to be one man wrecking crews, I believe that alone will generate a big turnaround.

[Wyvern]

Agreed that Sweat and Young aren't playing within the scheme.

 

However some heat needs to be directed to Sam Mills III, (Rivera's hire for D-Line coach) who really hasn't been able to effectively harness a dominant D-line, even with 4 #1 draft picks, plus around 4-6 really high-quality backups.😑

 

Sam Mills doesn't seem to be very effective in his D-Line meetings/tactics sessions, or getting decent results on the field.  Mills III, needs to be under scrutiny' because he doesn't seem to have control or buy-in on his vision of how a D-Line supports the team in their search for a win.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Wyvern

[FootballZombie]

3 hours ago, Wyvern said:

Sam Mills doesn't seem to be very effective in his D-Line meetings/tactics sessions, or getting decent results on the field.  Mills III, needs to be under scrutiny' because he doesn't seem to have control or buy-in on his vision of how a D-Line supports the team in their search for a win.

 

Really hard to point at any non-top-tier position when you don't have buy in from the scheme. For all we know, what Mills is preaching would be effective.

 

other, lesser players stepping in after injuries kinda lends credence to that point. When people did what they were told we got better results.

 

 

Hard for me to look at this situation a not put the majority onus on the players for not sticking to the script, or the D-coordinator for not getting his D to buy in and providing no repercussions for not doing so.

 

Mills could scream until he blue. if there is no buy-in, he's belting at a wall.

[method man]

20 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Really hard to point at any non-top-tier position when you don't have buy in from the scheme. For all we know, what Mills is preaching would be effective.

 

other, lesser players stepping in after injuries kinda lends credence to that point. When people did what they were told we got better results.

 

 

Hard for me to look at this situation a not put the majority onus on the players for not sticking to the script, or the D-coordinator for not getting his D to buy in and providing no repercussions for not doing so.

 

Mills could scream until he blue. if there is no buy-in, he's belting at a wall.

It’s on Mills for not getting buy in. Doesn’t help that his predecessor is one of the great DL position coaches in the NFL

[Redwards]

8 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Really hard to point at any non-top-tier position when you don't have buy in from the scheme. For all we know, what Mills is preaching would be effective.

 

other, lesser players stepping in after injuries kinda lends credence to that point. When people did what they were told we got better results.

 

 

Hard for me to look at this situation a not put the majority onus on the players for not sticking to the script, or the D-coordinator for not getting his D to buy in and providing no repercussions for not doing so.

 

Mills could scream until he blue. if there is no buy-in, he's belting at a wall.

Then this falls on Ron to solve.  

 

Bottom line: if there's no buy-in, you don't play.  Period.   Ron has talked and talked about not caring where a person is drafted - production rules and doing things the coach's way rules.

 

This D staff and Ron failed this D-line epically last year by not holding Montez and Chase accountable.   This is where Ron falls short as a coach.

[NoCalMike]

I don't think it is quite to the Lavar Arrington level yet because Young hasn't been around as long, but Lavar was similar in that athletically he was a freak, but he wanted to just play on instincts all the time and had the ability to make special looking plays, but because of trying to just be a lone wolf out there, he allowed just as many big plays go right by him because he didn't pay mind to the gaps & running lanes.  When Marvin Lewis came in and demanded he play disciplined and forced him into a three point stance before the snap, Arrington ended up with the best statistical season of his career, but he remained stubborn about it the entire time. 

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

I don't think it is quite to the Lavar Arrington level yet because Young hasn't been around as long, but Lavar was similar in that athletically he was a freak, but he wanted to just play on instincts all the time and had the ability to make special looking plays, but because of trying to just be a lone wolf out there, he allowed just as many big plays go right by him because he didn't pay mind to the gaps & running lanes.  When Marvin Lewis came in and demanded he play disciplined and forced him into a three point stance before the snap, Arrington ended up with the best statistical season of his career, but he remained stubborn about it the entire time. 

Lavar was dominant his first few years. Had he spent his entire career with Marty or Marvin Lewis he'd have been a Hall of Famer. His play fell off when he was asked to read and react and then he got hurt after looking pretty good early on for Gregg Williams and was never the same after.

[Koolblue13]

I think the early hate for Young is ****ing dumb. Yes, he's disappointed so far, but his rookie year was bonkers. 

 

We'll see how he does this season and if him and Sweat are buying into it, than we could have an extremely dominate line and it'll be fun, but the piling on after on bad year is stupid.

[max21]

26 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think the early hate for Young is ****ing dumb. Yes, he's disappointed so far, but his rookie year was bonkers. 

 

We'll see how he does this season and if him and Sweat are buying into it, than we could have an extremely dominate line and it'll be fun, but the piling on after on bad year is stupid.

I’ll die on the hill that it wasn’t that bonkers, and he benefited from a pretty weak defensive rookie class. People wanted Jeremy Chinn as DROY with almost identical stats as Curl. Bonkers was Parsons last year. But thats in the past. Really just hoping for a good year for the both of them, I believe 

Edited June 21, 2022 by max21
Spelling

[Koolblue13]

17 minutes ago, max21 said:

I’ll die on the hill that it wasn’t that bonkers, and he benefited from a pretty weak defensive rookie class. People wanted Jeremy Chinn as DROY with almost identical stats as Curl. Bonkers was Parsons last year. But thats in the past. Really just hoping for a good year for the both of them, I believe 

Split whatever hairs you want. I don't care. It was the best rookie season by a washington defender, since Lavar.

 

Hopefully Chase got his ass humbled and comes back after a tough sophomore slump, unlike Lavar.

[Voice_of_Reason]

53 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think the early hate for Young is ****ing dumb. Yes, he's disappointed so far, but his rookie year was bonkers. 

To the bolded, has he though?  He won DRY.  He had an outstanding rookie season. 

 

He had a sophomore slump, and he isn't the first, and won't be the last.  The real issue is part of the slump is he tore is ACL, so his sophomore slump might drag into his junior year if he's healthy.

 

Bosa was able to come back and be dominant off of an ACL, but I believe he suffered it earlier in the season.  

 

I don't know when Young returns, but when he does, he damn well better be dominant.  Play within the scheme, attack the player in front of him.  

 

Somebody got in his head last year that he could use his quickness instead of rushing down hill and using his strength, and that went sideways on him.

 

I think he and Montez decided they had a goal to just get sacks at any cost, and what happened is they got no sacks.  

 

As far as Mills goes, it's very difficult to tell how good a position coach is.  I would have no issues if he went, no issues if he stayed.  But especially given the backups and rotational players have always looked prepared, it was the starters who seemed to do what they are asked to, there is at least the possibility the fault lays more with the players than the coaches.

 

Now, Gregg Williams just benched Lavar because he had had it.  Marvin Lewis did also, FWIW, for a few plays.  Are Jack/Ron going to try and let these guys play through it and learn from their mistakes?  You have to think Lavar got plenty of warnings.  Maybe there will come a time when you see less Young/Sweat if they don't perform. Time will tell. 

1 hour ago, max21 said:

I’ll die on the hill that it wasn’t that bonkers, and he benefited from a pretty weak defensive rookie class.

Well, if that's the hill you've decided to die on, I guess you should pick out a good spot, because you're not going to last long.  I hope your eternal resting place at least has nice shrubbery.  

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 6/5/2022 at 9:25 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

Counter Point: They give him the opportunity to go make a play and he was washed inside easily. 
 

He played with poor technique last season. Not only was he undisciplined but he didn’t attack OTs, he tried to trick them and then got dominated.

 

He needs to be better.  They can let him do whatever, but he wasn’t even coming remotely close to winning 1:1 matchups.  
 

Step 1 to being a play maker, beat the guy in front of you.  If you can’t do that you’re stuck.  LT wouldn’t just beat the guy in front of him, he’d bludgeon them and then the next guy and go make the play. 

 Yeah I don't buy the argument that he wasn't put In position to make players. He just didn't make them.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Yeah I don't buy the argument that he wasn't put In position to make players. He just didn't make them.

You can say the DC needs to scheme up ways to get guys free, and that's true at times. But that's going to happen, what, 3 or 4 times a game?  Offenses are really good, and no DC can scheme up free pass rushes consistently.  

 

The offense is always focusing on Young also, to make sure he doesn't wreck a game.

 

So, the number 1 thing: go beat the guy in front of you.  Until you're consistently whooping the guy in front of you in 1:1 matchups, I don't want to hear anything about scheme.