Serious Question: Do you regret letting Cousins go?

[KDawg]

21 minutes ago, rick7423 said:

So... you are saying Alex fits a dysfunctional, poorly built, horribly managed team. Not saying much.

 

Alex showed nothing when he played other than he did not turn the ball over. He was 'under-whelming' at best. The team won games under his leadership despite his poor play.

So...

 

you understand me. That’s nice.

[skinsmania123]

3 hours ago, UK Skins said:

 

And you know I respect you, I'm not including you with the wanna be Vikings fans.

 Yeah we all want to be Vikings fans...... ohhh yeah that has to be it.  Uhhh NO!  But I must admit I am enjoying the hell out of the cringe that has to be going on between Brucie and Danny "the basic" player evaluators.   I am a Skins fan to my core to my own detriment unfortunately.  Not changing teams ever BUT I want the Vikings to win it all, so those two clowns,  won't be able to Crown Royal or Coors Light it away.  Yeah I admit that.  You bet I do.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

6 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Here is the baseline question for any QB: Can you win a Super Bowl with him?

 

The answer with Cousins - to me - is yes. So when you have that QB, you can stop worrying about that QB and focus on other stuff. The Skins could have spent - oh - seven years worrying about other stuff. But all we've done since the first time Cousins was franchised is spent time worrying about and focusing on one position.

 

So, I regret that we have wasted, like, five years on an issue that could have easily been resolved.

  Although i agree with the sentiment Iv always felt  just being respected and having a feared passing game (which we had with kirk) was enough for me in the Daniel Snyder era. This team will never come close to a Super Bowl with Dan, never. But respectability is a realistic and achievable goal, and with Cousins we had that. Look at us now with the current roster QB's , Pathetic.

2 hours ago, skinsmania123 said:

 Yeah we all want to be Vikings fans...... ohhh yeah that has to be it.  Uhhh NO!  But I must admit I am enjoying the hell out of the cringe that has to be going on between Brucie and Danny "the basic" player evaluators.   I am a Skins fan to my core to my own detriment unfortunately.  Not changing teams ever BUT I want the Vikings to win it all, so those two clowns,  won't be able to Crown Royal or Coors Light it away.  Yeah I admit that.  You bet I do.

I'm with you brother🍻

[JSSkinz]

Kirk this year vs last year

 

2018 after 11 games

22 Td's, 7 Int's and 8 fumbles

 

This year after 11 games

21 Td's, 3 Int's, and 8 fumbles.

 

 

[Veryoldschool]

32 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Kirk this year vs last year

 

2018 after 11 games

22 Td's, 7 Int's and 8 fumbles

 

This year after 11 games

21 Td's, 3 Int's, and 8 fumbles.

 

 

 

Great stats obviously, this year he has a better supporting cast including a healthier OL and running backs.  After watching a few of their games I think their pass defense is too weak and Zimmer too risk-averse make a Super Bowl run but if Zimmer somehow manages to improve that deficiency they have a chance. 

[Veryoldschool]

Our crowd chants "sell the team!"  

 

while they chant "Skol!" in a packed stadium with an enormous horn they blow.  

 

 

[paloosa]

No because he wasn't and still not worth the money he was asking besides he didn't want to be a Redskin anymore. Cousins wanted to be a paid big bucks because he put up big numbers that made him look good but never turned into wins. Everyone looks at his numbers but forget that most of those numbers were in garbage time because we were either were down 17 or more points and all the Redskins did was pass. But everyone wants to put him the same category as Brady, Manning, Rodgers and Brees. Cousins is not even in the same category as Brett Favre. Favre made a ton of turnovers but the team could count on him to make a game winning throw or bring a team back. No one can say or says  that about Cousins. Look at what is said by the NFL pregame shows that have Hall of Famers on them and they don't think he is that good. But according to many on here think that "he was all that and a bag of chips." Cousins is a fiery competitor like Phillip Rivers but always falls short of winning it all because his light is dim when the team needs him to shine the brightest in big games.  Why do you think he has a losing record in Prime time games? 

[ananoman]

15 minutes ago, paloosa said:

Why do you think he has a losing record in Prime time games? 

...because he spent most of his career playing for the Washington Redskins who in the Snyder era have a horrid record in Prime Time games with or without Cousins as the qb 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Anybody who says no is deluding themselves. Cousins is a legitimate NFL starting QB. He’s not top tier but he’s better than anything we’ve had since what’s his face and I’ll be surprised if we have anyone better in the next 20 years (not because he’s so great but... Redskins). Also, what’s his face = Brad Johnson.

[CjSuAvE22]

2 hours ago, paloosa said:

No because he wasn't and still not worth the money he was asking besides he didn't want to be a Redskin anymore. Cousins wanted to be a paid big bucks because he put up big numbers that made him look good but never turned into wins. Everyone looks at his numbers but forget that most of those numbers were in garbage time because we were either were down 17 or more points and all the Redskins did was pass. But everyone wants to put him the same category as Brady, Manning, Rodgers and Brees. Cousins is not even in the same category as Brett Favre. Favre made a ton of turnovers but the team could count on him to make a game winning throw or bring a team back. No one can say or says  that about Cousins. Look at what is said by the NFL pregame shows that have Hall of Famers on them and they don't think he is that good. But according to many on here think that "he was all that and a bag of chips." Cousins is a fiery competitor like Phillip Rivers but always falls short of winning it all because his light is dim when the team needs him to shine the brightest in big games.  Why do you think he has a losing record in Prime time games? 

You have so many factually incorrect things in your statement i cant even begin...but did u see the sunday night game vs dallas in prime time??? How long will the redskins be waiting to beat dallas in prime time.

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Anybody who says no is deluding themselves. Cousins is a legitimate NFL starting QB. 

 

  Don't think anyone is saying he is not a NFL starting QB. The OP asks if the Skins fan base regrets that he is no longer a Redskins. 

 

i had posted many times in the past if the Raven can win a SB with Trent then the Skins can with Kirk. We just needed a damn good D though. Kirk won't win you games by carrying the team on his back. That is not Kirk. He needs a great supporting cast on O and D to be successful. 

[CjSuAvE22]

3 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

  Don't think anyone is saying he is not a NFL starting QB. The OP asks if the Skins fan base regrets that he is no longer a Redskins. 

 

i had posted many times in the past if the Raven can win a SB with Trent then the Skins can with Kirk. We just needed a damn good D though. Kirk won't win you games by carrying the team on his back. That is not Kirk. He needs a great supporting cast on O and D to be successful. 

And which quarterback doesnt need that?? The redskins never had a single running back while he was here and also horrendous defenses and he still managed to keep us in playoff contention

[PartyPosse]

It helps to have weapons. We have none.

 

All we would be with him is 7-9 or 8-8. Rather just be 1-15

[UK Skins]

9 hours ago, skinsmania123 said:

 Yeah we all want to be Vikings fans...... ohhh yeah that has to be it.  Uhhh NO!  But I must admit I am enjoying the hell out of the cringe that has to be going on between Brucie and Danny "the basic" player evaluators.   I am a Skins fan to my core to my own detriment unfortunately.  Not changing teams ever BUT I want the Vikings to win it all, so those two clowns,  won't be able to Crown Royal or Coors Light it away.  Yeah I admit that.  You bet I do.

Thanks for putting it so well, appreciate it. And that's a view I can totally understand .

 

I keep thinking back through all the other good players that left the Skins and don't remember fans promising to quit as Skins fans, start following X players new team and then coming back to talk smack here as some people are with Cousins. And I don't think any of them were made the best paid player at their position so would perhaps have deserved more sympathy. Oh well, time to try and stick up for our current Redskins QB in the other threads!

 

[Bagonmyhead]

It’s past regret. It’s now into the area of a federal crime that we let him go!

[TSO]

9 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Great stats obviously, this year he has a better supporting cast including a healthier OL and running backs.  After watching a few of their games I think their pass defense is too weak and Zimmer too risk-averse make a Super Bowl run but if Zimmer somehow manages to improve that deficiency they have a chance. 

It’s not going to be Zimmer, necessarily, it’s all about Xavier Rhodes. Unless they manage to develop someone better to replace him. 
 

He’s been awful and teams are attacking him this year. 
 

He’s like their version of Norman, except he’s been elite for a long time with the Vikings. It’s a shame but it seems like he’s lost a big step. 
 

If he can get it together and they stay healthy, they’ll likely be a dominant force moving forward. 
 

All I care about when I look at the Vikings is that they’re paying Cousins and STILL have the better roster than us. They STILL have the better team. 
 

I don’t care about the “big game” talk or playoff wins or whatever. I’m not into those arguments because I’m not a Vikings’ fan or Kirk fan for that matter - outside of what he did as a Redskin that I’ll always appreciate (though I do believe he’s a very good QB and even think he still has a chance at becoming elite - QBs like him that operate within the pocket, are durable, and are all about the mastery of opposing defenses don’t really stop developing, Brady will tell you that). 
 

That’s all that matters to me as a Redskins’ fan. The Vikings managed their resources better than we did. They have the better roster and the better results. They have hope and they’re in contention. And that includes the Kirk contract. 
 

They win. We lose. 
 

The moment we become a better team than them, the moment our record reflects that (playoffs or no playoffs, winning “big games” or not), that’ll be the moment I’ll ease off of how Dan and Bruce handled that entire situation and how horrendously our resources were managed there. It won’t change the years that were wasted and the people they set up for failure in the process, but at least it’d be over. Until then, even if the Vikings win one more game than us, that’s all that matters to me as a Redskin fan. 
 

I don’t need to add all these weird, team-based, conditions for Kirk to prove before I can be disappointed about it.  Bruce didn’t want to pay him his market value after procrastinating about it and then didn’t trade him when that was decided, and now we have another team who DID pay him and STILL built a better roster than us.
 

Why should I give a damn about anything else? 

[zCommander]

7 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

And which quarterback doesnt need that?? The redskins never had a single running back while he was here and also horrendous defenses and he still managed to keep us in playoff contention

 

And that is the key. Contention nothing more. False hopes and dreams. Bruce doesn't know how to build a team. Kirk was useless here. The price tag to keep him was too high. It is not about regrets of letting Kirk go it is about the regrets of not building a team for him or have the coaches that can utilize him (except for McVey). Kirk left for a bigger pay and bet on himself. Good for him. 

 

What is even the point of regrets for a player that could have and should have. Spilled milk. Mop it up and move on with football life that is the current Redskins. 

[celticsalmon]

I'm immune to this organization letting good ones get away- besides head coahcs in McVay and Lefleur, and the most recent Trent Williams, there are: Shaun Suisham, Gramham Gano, Chad Rinehart, Ryan Clark, Lorenzo Alenader, Antonio Pierce, Preston Smith, Kendall Fuller, Brian Mitchell...the list goes on and on.  Thanks Snyder!

[CjSuAvE22]

1 hour ago, zskins said:

 

And that is the key. Contention nothing more. False hopes and dreams. Bruce doesn't know how to build a team. Kirk was useless here. The price tag to keep him was too high. It is not about regrets of letting Kirk go it is about the regrets of not building a team for him or have the coaches that can utilize him (except for McVey). Kirk left for a bigger pay and bet on himself. Good for him. 

 

What is even the point of regrets for a player that could have and should have. Spilled milk. Mop it up and move on with football life that is the current Redskins. 

Point taken i see exactly what you mean 

[KDawg]

@thesubmittedone

 

Nailed it.

 

I do not regret Cousins leaving with that salary. Some teams can afford to pay a man that much money and still put a team around him. This team isn't one of them. And I don't necessarily blame the scouts/most of the front office for that situation. It falls on Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder.

 

The Cousins situation ended when they tagged him instead of getting him signed. This tea cannot afford to pay a quarterback that much money and surround them with the talent necessary. Players don't come here for small paychecks. The organization is not a heralded one around league circles. Players that come to DC want to get a good paycheck, or they have limited options and connections to someone in the organization, or they are coming off of an injury and many teams don't want to take the risk. 

 

Kirk Cousins would not be doing what he is here with Minnesota. He'd help this team be middling. 

 

I have said this many times. The only real change that can happen that immediately can help turn the tide in this franchise on a consistent basis is a new general manager. And that new GM hires a head coach for his ability to manage a football team, not based on who the top brass wants to be the quarterback. 

 

Barring that, the best way to build this team is to offset that. 

 

And I'd type up how to do that, but I don't have long enough to type that kind of post right now. But there is a ton of things they could do. 

 

But even in doing that, it takes one decision that Bruce/Dan make on their own, independent of their football people, that immediately sinks the vibe and culture and undermines their best laid plans.

 

It keeps circling back to one major area that actually can be changed.

 

Until then, why even think about how Cousins would have done in DC? Even with his faults, he was still the best QB this team has had and he's actually a pretty good NFL quarterback. 

 

Minnesota is not Washington.

[Skinsinparadise]

I was a bit of a nerd at the time on the Kirk contract and followed all the reports pretty closely.  Looking back at it 2 things about it bring home how obtuse Bruce Allen is and how the Trent debacle matched some of that same type of thinking....

 

A.  Kirk and his agent made it clear as heck that when he's tagged they look at that precise figure as the anchor of the contract.  So if they tag him at 20 million then 20 million is the base.  Then the next year 24, then 27, etc.   They were very direct on that point.  And Kirk's agent isn't the only one who rolls that way as to the tag. 

 

Yet Bruce didn't just tag Kirk once but tagged him AGAIN.   And then not once matched the tag figure in negotiation.  Ditto as to the guaranteed money -- since if the tag was the play for the full run of dealing with the contract then they can more or less tag him 3 times before it got really absurd.  So Bruce anchored the deal that way himself. Kirk & McCartney just played along. 

 

But its not like they didn't telegraph that's how they'd react to the tag.  Kirk wasn't shy about talking about it himself, he would often say my agent tells me the tag is my friend.  Bruce played right into it.  

 

B.  Keim who is almost always perfectly on the money said in a recent podcast that people knew in that building that Kirk reached a point where he was on his way out, he wasn't coming back.  People there wanted to trade him but it was Bruce who disagreed and thought he'd be talked into staying.  In other words, Bruce thought he can win the negotiation on his terms.  We heard stories that Bruce and company flied to see Trent at one point and according to Hoffman told him then they wouldn't trade him in the season.  We also got if you guys recall a similar story about Bruce flying to see Kirk in 2017.  Bruce could have traded both but hung on.

 

Leading up to Trent's situation, we heard Bruce say publicly Trent will play for the Redskins.  As to Kirk, we also heard him say multiple times publicly its fine and people are making it complicated when it's not and things will work out.   The behind the scenes stories about both scenes had things in common.  It was Bruce wasn't budging.  Bruce wanted to win.  Then when Bruce finally got it that he wasn't winning the deal, he became a jerk.  

 

Bruce reminds me of the real estate agent I hired years ago.  They knew neighborhoods well but were terrible negotiators and I almost lost a house I really wanted because they wouldn't budge in negotiation and wanted to "win the deal".  I didn't care about giving in a little to win the house.  And I ultimately had to override them to make it happen. 

 

I'd put money that Bruce gave in to 3.5 years of guaranteed money in the Alex contract when he wouldn't even give Kirk more than 2 in part to thumb his nose at Kirk and his agent.   And while its sad for Alex that he got hurt.  There is some odd poetic karma that the move backfired on Bruce and its handcuffed the team.

 

But yes Bruce's poor negotiation skills and petty way of going about things -- probably egged on by Dan is a major reason why this team stinks.  And when Sheehan and others say they hear that Bruce really really wants Kirk to look bad and not make the playoffs -- I root for the opposite. 

 

I get some think hey Trent and Kirk should be loyal Redskins and just subjugate themselves to Bruce and his style for the sake of the team.  But I'll start with neither grew up Redskins fans.   It's a business.  But more on point, both were also upset about how it was handled.  Trent was very direct about it and just about said directly that Bruce dealing with the situation like a douche is why he wants out because otherwise he felt they might be able to work it out.  Kirk plays nice guy and doesn't say that publicly but has told some he was close to like Grant Paulsen among others that he wants out in part because of Bruce.  

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I get some think hey Trent and Kirk should be loyal Redskins and just subjugate themselves to Bruce and his style for the sake of the team.  But I'll start with neither grew up Redskins fans.   It's a business.  But more on point, both were also upset about how it was handled.  Trent was very direct about it and just about said directly that Bruce dealing with the situation like a douche is why he wants out because otherwise he felt they might be able to work it out.  Kirk plays nice guy and doesn't say that publicly but has told some he was close to like Grant Paulsen among others that he wants out in part because of Bruce.  

 

Not only is Bruce a jerk, but these guys have been in the league long enough, they talk to other players, their agents know as well....that Bruce also sucks as a personnel guy.  It's one thing to be a douchebag, it's another thing to also be bad at your job as you really have no experience building winning football teams.

 

If I'm a player, and management has been dicking me around, and the same management has no leg to stand on as for being able to put a winning team around me...why on earth would I be all-in on staying?

[Veryoldschool]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was a bit of a nerd at the time on the Kirk contract and followed all the reports pretty closely.  Looking back at it 2 things about it bring home how obtuse Bruce Allen is and how the Trent debacle matched some of that same type of thinking....

 

A.  Kirk and his agent made it clear as heck that when he's tagged they look at that precise figure as the anchor of the contract.  So it they tag him at 20 million then 20 million is the base.  Then the next year 24, then 27, etc.   They were very direct on that point.  And Kirk's agent isn't the only one who rolls that way as to the tag. 

 

Yet Bruce didn't just tag Kirk once but tagged him AGAIN.   And then not once matched the tag figure in negotiation.  Ditto as to the guaranteed money -- since if the tag was the play for the full run of dealing with the contract then they can more or less tag him 3 times before it got really absurd.  So Bruce anchored the deal that way himself. Kirk & McCartney just played along. 

 

But its not like they didn't telegraph that's how they'd react to the tag.  Kirk wasn't shy about talking about it himself, he would often say my agent tells me the tag is my friend.  Bruce played right into it.  

 

B.  Keim who is almost always perfectly on the money said in a recent podcast that people knew in that building that Kirk reached a point where he was on his way out, he wasn't coming back.  People there wanted to trade him but it was Bruce who disagreed and thought he'd be talked into staying.  In other words, Bruce thought he can win the negotiation on his terms.  We heard stories that Bruce and company flied to see Trent at one point and according to Hoffman told him then they wouldn't trade him in the season.  We also got if you guys recall a similar story about Bruce flying to see Kirk in 2017.  Bruce could have traded both but hung on.

 

Leading up to Trent's situation, we heard Bruce say publicly Trent will play for the Redskins.  As to Kirk, we also heard him say multiple times publicly its fine and people are making it complicated when it's not and things will work out.   The behind the scenes stories about both scenes had things in common.  It was Bruce wasn't budging.  Bruce wanted to win.  Then when Bruce finally got it that he wasn't winning the deal, he became a jerk.  

 

Bruce reminds me of the real estate agent I hired years ago.  They knew neighborhoods well but were terrible negotiators and I almost lost a house I really wanted because they wouldn't budge in negotiation and wanted to "win the deal".  I didn't care about giving in a little to win the house.  And I ultimately had to override them to make it happen. 

 

I'd put money that Bruce gave in to 3.5 years of guaranteed money in the Alex contract when he wouldn't even give Kirk more than 2 in part to thumb his nose at Kirk and his agent.   And while its sad for Alex that he got hurt.  There is some odd poetic karma that the move backfired on Bruce and its handcuffed the team.

 

But yes Bruce's poor negotiation skills and petty way of going about things -- probably egged on by Dan is a major reason why this team stinks.  And when Sheehan and others say they hear that Bruce really really wants Kirk to look bad and not make the playoffs -- I root for the opposite. 

 

I get some think hey Trent and Kirk should be loyal Redskins and just subjugate themselves to Bruce and his style for the sake of the team.  But I'll start with neither grew up Redskins fans.   It's a business.  But more on point, both were also upset about how it was handled.  Trent was very direct about it and just about said directly that Bruce dealing with the situation like a douche is why he wants out because otherwise he felt they might be able to work it out.  Kirk plays nice guy and doesn't say that publicly but has told some he was close to like Grant Paulsen among others that he wants out in part because of Bruce.  

 

 

You always blame Bruce when I think it is obvious Dan runs his team but since intelligent observers like yourself still blame Bruce he remains useful to Snyder and employed.

 

[JSSkinz]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Kirk plays nice guy and doesn't say that publicly but has told some he was close to like Grant Paulsen among others that he wants out in part because of Bruce.  

That's interesting because in his podcast a few weeks ago he was very candid about what the team was willing to do and the only name he mentioned as "not going for it" in terms of the contract he wanted was GMSM.

 

That was a very laid back Vikes podcast and he didn't have his guard up.

 

He said point blank that after the 2015 season he and his agent were not signing anything but a 3 yr fully guaranteed deal because GMSM was not interested in his demands, why still maneuver through bits and pieces of media reports when you have Kirk telling you exactly what the thought process was.  Are you saying he was just being nice?

 

He said with the franchise tag and insurance policy it wasn't worth signing a deal, it was a business decision for Kirk which is fine but he's not a victim and the fact any team in the NFL would be hesitant to hand over a fully guaranteed 3 year deal to any QB after 8 good games is not crazy.  I will go out on a limb and say at that time 99% of the league wouldn't have given him that contract.  He didn't even start getting the respect he deserved until after the 2016 season.

 

I said back in the old thread that Kirk didn't want to play here and everything Kirk has said since backs that up and there are no real examples of why he hates Bruce, same thing with Trent, why does he hate Bruce?

 

No way I'm defending Bruce but he's an easy scapegoat because he's a terrible GM but he's not a terrible GM because he wouldn't give a Kirk a fully guaranteed 3 year deal after 8 good games in the 2015 season.  GMSM didn't want to give that contract because it was a bad decision at that time.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

You always blame Bruce when I think it is obvious Dan runs his team but since intelligent observers like yourself still blame Bruce he remains useful to Snyder and employed.

 

 

We agree on a lot.  But you keep coming at me on this.  And sorry you aren't going to convince me that Bruce is some innocent hapless dude just corrupted by another.  

 

And your view point to me makes Dan look better and is very gracious to Bruce Allen even if that's not your intention.    And you think my view point makes Dan look better even though its not my intention either.  So let's agree to disagree.  Because I know our holistic views on Dan are identical.  Our disagreement is I see two villains in the story, not just one.  And just because Batman is dealing with both the Penguin and the Joker it doesn't dilute the villainy of either guy IMO. 

 

I'll explain my point once more.  In short, I do think there can be two problems as once. Your way in my book lionizes Bruce.  That poor dude maybe he will reach his potential elsewhere -- he might really know what he's doing and if it weren't for that pesky Dan that gets in his way.     Most people who cover the team and ask around share my view on this not yours.  Heck including even the people supposedly around Kirk.  I am not saying they can't be wrong.  They might be wrong.   But we don't know.  And my view isn't really a mile away from yours anyway. 

 

My take isn't that Dan doesn't interfere or tell Bruce what to do, etc.  I've probably put more material and specifics on this board than anyone that Dan indeed does interfere and Bruce from time to times does do what Dan wants.   My take though is it isn't ALWAYS.  Bruce from what people report has plenty of autonomy and puts his own special dysfunctional stamp on this team.  What befuddles me the most about those who disagree is this:  the type of things that Bruce has allegedly put his stamp on are ironically things that were very Bruce before he arrived and different from Dan.   The Trent issue was handled like a tee to a situation he had in Tampa as an agent spelled out in detail among other things. 

 

Bruce is known for this negotiation style BEFORE he got here.   It's been well documented.   Dan was known for the opposite, for giving up too much in negotiation.  Bruce was known as the prince of darkness BEFORE he got here.   These specific issues were Bruce centric.  There weren't old school Dan tactics.  Where old school Dan and Bruce converge IMO is making mistakes with personnel, interjecting where they shouldn't, having a warped FO structure and the slimy-classless way they seem to deal with people.  

 

So no I don't think Dan corrupted Bruce.  Dan to me is the worst owner in sports.  Bruce to me is the worst GM.  They are mutually exclusive points IMO.  And IMO my way makes Dan looks worse than your way.  Because your way gives Dan some rope that he actually might make some decent hires.  That explanation gives him IMO more redeeming features because hey the dude at least he might do one thing well that's important -- if only he can now just get out of these peoples way.  

 

In my book my way is tougher on Dan because I think the dude is a walking incompetent and slimy and ALSO can't make good hires in the FO.  Your way to me implies he only has one of the two problems but he unlikely has both.

 

I know you and one other here seem to hate when I go off on Bruce without bringing in Dan every time.  But I'll just say this even if I believed that Bruce is a bigger problem than Dan (I don't believe that by the way not even close) it doesn't add up to some weird secret complement to Dan.  If Dan hired bad people it reflects 100% on him.  Bruce isn't holding him hostage.  But regardless, my distaste for Bruce doesn't take Dan off the hook.  I think your take is a little nicer to Dan unintentionally -- you think my way is nicer.  But who cares? I don’t see why we have to have the exact same version of why we think Dan stinks.