Darrell Green Fan Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin said: This notion that there's unreasonable hate towards Kirk is, frankly, an amazing shift in narrative. He earned every bit of the criticism through his failures on field, and I still maintain that with him, we'd only be mediocre enough to not make the hard choices. He's not a generational talent, he's not good going off script (which is sort of the key for the QBs who elevate their team) and we wouldn't be a great team with him. Losing him, and it causing the firing of Gruden and then Allen is the key to this. Again the team was 24-23-1 with Kirk, no defense or running game, and 15-43 in the 2 years before he became the starter and the 2 years since he left. And you act as if he was Heath Shuler so yeah the criticism is a bit unfair in a lot of people's mind. Are you even aware that he led several late game scoring drives only to have the defense give up the lead or the kicker blow the kick when he was here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 What Cousins time here did was expose just how many of our fans are irrational and lack football knowledge. The demise of our team has also resulted in an overall decline in our fanbase's football IQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Fat Stupid Loser said: And for your cunning frugalness, you would have Case Keenum. You're from the Bruce tree of FO wizardry. You are missing the point. I wouldn't pay him what he received....an 83m fully guaranteed contract. He is the only player in the league to have a fully guaranteed contract. Not even arod or Drew Brees have a fully guaranteed contract. He doesn't deserve that. I would have offered him a 5 year 100m contract back in 2016 or 17, the year he ended up getting franchised for the first time and that is pretty much what he was asking for. So why would you pay him 28m when he's asking for 20m on average. That's highly irresponsible. btw, Case Keenum got to the NFCCG in Minnesota, just sayin..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinFanInMinn Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, SkinsFanMania said: btw, Case Keenum got to the AFCCG in Minnesota, just sayin..... Which is really impressive given that the Vikings play in the NFC. Just sayin... 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 47 minutes ago, SkinFanInMinn said: Which is really impressive given that the Vikings play in the NFC. Just sayin... 😂 lol, yep totally . You know what I mean. lol here is one thing to consider. The Vikings offense was good before Cousins became their QB and Case Keenum was at the helm. They aren't 28m better than what they were in 2017, that's for damn sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 9 hours ago, DJHJR86 said: QB1: 198/307, 64.5%, 2,122 yards, 9 TD, 3 INT, 7.06 AY/A, 90.3 Passer Rating QB2: 205/328, 62.5%, 2,180 yards, 10 TD, 5 INT, 6.57 AY/A, 85.7 Passer Rating Now take into account how much more passer-friendly the NFL got in those ten years. Campbell was mediocre for his time (though his last six games were worse). Alex Smith was dreadful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Case Keenum had one magical season, not unlike Rip in 1991. It wasn't only the weapons, he played really well and way over his head. Then he reverted to, well, Case Keenum. Some people still fail to understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 18 hours ago, SkinsFanMania said: You are missing the point. I wouldn't pay him what he received....an 83m fully guaranteed contract. He is the only player in the league to have a fully guaranteed contract. Not even arod or Drew Brees have a fully guaranteed contract. He doesn't deserve that. I would have offered him a 5 year 100m contract back in 2016 or 17, the year he ended up getting franchised for the first time and that is pretty much what he was asking for. So why would you pay him 28m when he's asking for 20m on average. That's highly irresponsible. I agree, what Bruce did was highly irresponsible. Or more likely incompetent. Kirk would have taken your offer in a heartbeat back then. But Bruce wouldn't know a franchise QB if one landed on him in the 4th round through no effort of his own. Oh....wait. Then playing Bruce ego/power trip games, both destroying the relationship and driving the cost of the franchise QB through the roof, so that people could say he isn't worth that much, so let him go. You say Kirk doesn't deserve a fully guaranteed salary, just because nobody else has ever received one? Why? The market obviously disagrees with this stance. There were teams who couldn't wait to pay him 30M guaranteed. He is worth what the market says he is. Now, you can argue that the market for QBs is outrageous. I would whole-heartedly agree. There isn't a football player in the world worth 1/20th of what they make. But that's what this society pays athletes. So if you want a real franchise QB for his career, you either need to be good enough at your GM job to recognize one early and get him locked up "cheap" for a few years only, (knowing next time you will have to pay him a monster contract. paying the monster contract in inevitable at some point) or pay him now. Bruce did neither. Nor after destroying the relationship so that he wouldn't play for you and jacking his cost up, did he get anything in return for his franchise QB. A triple fail!!!!! Cousins was the best thing to happen to this franchise in 25 years, (which is pretty sad actually, but nevertheless) huge loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 21 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said: Again the team was 24-23-1 with Kirk, no defense or running game, and 15-43 in the 2 years before he became the starter and the 2 years since he left. And you act as if he was Heath Shuler so yeah the criticism is a bit unfair in a lot of people's mind. Are you even aware that he led several late game scoring drives only to have the defense give up the lead or the kicker blow the kick when he was here? if that's a defense then Jason Campbell is much better than people think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Bryant Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 28 minutes ago, carex said: if that's a defense then Jason Campbell is much better than people think Kirk Cousins (97.1 passer rating) is currently tied with Tony Romo for #6 on the all-time list. Interestingly enough, Jason Campbell (81.7) is tied with Danny White at #59. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Aaron Rodgers had a down year last year throwing 25tds and 2ints. Cool stats I suppose, but didn’t contribute to a good season for the passing offense or team overall that greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Bryant Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, wit33 said: Aaron Rodgers had a down year last year throwing 25tds and 2ints. Cool stats I suppose, but didn’t contribute to a good season for the passing offense or team overall that greatly. Sure, that's right. Having a QB playing at a HOF level has absolutely no positive effect on his offense. If he's Kirk Cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Bryant Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Here's Cousins since the start of October: - 1st in yardage (1,701) - 1st in QB rating (124.4) - 1st in PFF grading (92.4) - 1st (tie) in TDs (15) - 2nd in Y/A (9.1) - 2nd in completion percentage (71.5%) The numbers speak for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paloosa Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 On 11/19/2019 at 9:30 PM, CjSuAvE22 said: You have so many factually incorrect things in your statement i cant even begin...but did u see the sunday night game vs dallas in prime time??? How long will the redskins be waiting to beat dallas in prime time. Sunday Night was one game and anyone can win one of those games in the many tries Cousins has. You stated, "You have so many factually incorrect things in your statement i cant even begin" but you don't name any...To me that tells me you don't know what they are..If you also watched that game or the preview show they went through Cousins Record and it wasn't good. So if you can't name the "factual incorrect things' I will standby my comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 B 1 hour ago, Kelvin Bryant said: Sure, that's right. Having a QB playing at a HOF level has absolutely no positive effect on his offense. If he's Kirk Cousins. Nah, it just wasn’t a good year for Aaron Rodgers and the Packers, but his stats were cool. QB stats in today’s NFL can be misleading. Kirk’s recent run has been historic and led to team success, so he doesn’t qualify to date. Kirk’s last season with Vikings would qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Boy, it's a good thing they cut this guy loose, who would want to watch a season full of this nonsense: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 On 11/23/2019 at 12:03 PM, carex said: if that's a defense then Jason Campbell is much better than people think See the post below this one of yours. Jason Campbell never had numbers like Kirk, not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Just now, Darrell Green Fan said: See the post below this one of yours. Jason Campbell never had numbers like Kirk, not even close. I was talking late game drives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 20 minutes ago, carex said: I was talking late game drives Sorry did not pick that up, I was just correcting the other poster who claimed Kirk rarely if ever engineered late game drives. But I'm talking the entire package and by every measuring stick he is a Hell of a lot better than what we had over the past 3 decades and what we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtyfive2seven Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 And the answer is still yes. Haskins can’t even make a simple 5 yard out throw accurately. He’s awful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Team ****ed up and now we’re stuck with a bunch of bums and one of the worst rookie QBs of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Similar to how folks were saying that the Skins made a mistake not drafting Lamar Jackson when they took Payne, and that was countered by folks saying that Lamar Jackson wouldn't be the same Lamar Jackson here, that applies to Cousins as well. Yes, Kirk is better than anyone we've tried to replace him with. However, he's not good enough to carry this organization to anywhere meaningful. He would merely mask the deficiencies and be the scapegoat for problems that are bigger than him. Sad state of affairs when the team's only hope is some more than human superhero QB that can hopefully carry a flawed team somewhere important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 A lot of "if I knew then what I know now" going in in here. So I stick to my original point: would anyone have given Cousins a fully guaranteed contract the offseason the Vikings signed him? Right or wrong, the decision not to extend him his first year as a starter is what lead to giving him what the Vikings gave him being the only way hes still here. My answer is still no, if he was here right now, this isnt even a playoff team. Theres so much going wrong with this franchise, he wouldn't make a difference that matters. Let's face it, hes not here because he didnt want to be here, this place is a hot mess, no amount of money can cover that. I'm suprised anyone thinks if we offered what the Vikings did hed still be here. Hes in a much better situation then hed ever be here, we couldnt bring him back even if we wanted to. So theres in theory no way to regret letting him go. We didnt let him go, he left mentally after the first full season as a starter and we didnt extend him, the body had to wait for the franchise tag crap to play out. It's not fair to say "if I knew what I know now" to go back in time to first full year as a starter and say give him whatever he wants. I can say I wish the situation played out differently, but that's jus me being an idealist, not a realist. This went both ways, so that makes this a skynet movie, judgement day was inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 43 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: A lot of "if I knew then what I know now" going in in here. So I stick to my original point: would anyone have given Cousins a fully guaranteed contract the offseason the Vikings signed him? Right or wrong, the decision not to extend him his first year as a starter is what lead to giving him what the Vikings gave him being the only way hes still here. My answer is still no, if he was here right now, this isnt even a playoff team. Theres so much going wrong with this franchise, he wouldn't make a difference that matters. Let's face it, hes not here because he didnt want to be here, this place is a hot mess, no amount of money can cover that. I'm suprised anyone thinks if we offered what the Vikings did hed still be here. Hes in a much better situation then hed ever be here, we couldnt bring him back even if we wanted to. So theres in theory no way to regret letting him go. We didnt let him go, he left mentally after the first full season as a starter and we didnt extend him, the body had to wait for the franchise tag crap to play out. It's not fair to say "if I knew what I know now" to go back in time to first full year as a starter and say give him whatever he wants. I can say I wish the situation played out differently, but that's jus me being an idealist, not a realist. This went both ways, so that makes this a skynet movie, judgement day was inevitable. Agree 100% with this. If we were coming off an NFC Championship appearance, had 2 very promising young WRs on inexpensive deals, had just drafted Delvin Cook, and had a defense that you were confident that would be at worst a top 10 - 12 defense... then signing Cousins makes some sense. We weren't Kirk Cousins away from contending over the course of the contract he signed. Plus, as you mentioned, he has to be on board as well. We messed it up to begin with, which put us in an impossible situation... but he wasn't staying, even if we offered the deal Minnesota did, unless there were no other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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