wit33 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, mistertim said: Don't really agree with this. To me, Kirk was basically the anti-Eli when he was here. Eli was a dude who tended to put up mediocre numbers during the regular season but who seemed to shine in must win or playoff situations. Kirk put up tons of yards in the regular season when it didn't matter as much but had a history of folding during those pressure situations. Too many examples of below average, average or above average guys that have won Super Bowls to say Kirk has no chance. Kirk’s an above average QB and is capable of getting hot. The Vikings have the ability to win in many ways, so Kirk wouldn’t need to necessarily be THE reason in most or any potentially. Joe Flacco Nick Foles Eli Manning It’s no easy task though, Aaron Rodgers hasn’t won or gone to one in over 10 years, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, zskins said: I said WHY Alex was taken over Kirk and NOT what is happening RIGHT NOW. When the Skins got Alex this is what they were looking at. Notice who has more INT. 7.6 YPA for Cousins and 7.5 YPA for Smith, the "dink-and-dunk" label doesn't really apply for either player. In 2017, Drew Brees led the NFL with an 8.1 YPA. Smith tied for second at 8.8 and Cousins tied for ninth at 7.6. So tell me you would have still kept Kirk? I'll venture a wild guess, Cousins refused to negotiate until after they had applied the franchise tag for the 3rd time. Signing Smith, helpful Andy Reid's discard was a facesaving maneuver because Snyder had alienated Cousin so badly he wouldn't consider signing anything other than a franchise tag and the idiots waited to long to trade him. 10 minutes ago, zskins said: Hmmm... let's try this exercise instead: If you could pick one which one would you pick, regardless of how our WR or OL looks like, Mahomes, Jackson, Watson, Cousins, Wentz, Goff or Prescott. Okay, I'll play along. I want a franchise quarterback. I want a highly productive, accurate pocket passer who is durable. The first quality I look for is availability, I want first of all a guy who stays healthy and starts every week. That eliminates Wentz who is very talented but has a history of serious injury. Next, I want a gifted pocket passer, not a dual-threat guy because running QBs get injured sooner or later. For example, Cam Newton may be done so soon because of all the banging has taken its toll. Running quarterbacks are fun to watch and can be very impactful for a while but I can't remember one lasting 12-15 years so I'm scratching Jackson, Watson, and Mahomes. Kirk is older than all of them but may outlast of them. So I'm down to Goff, Prescott, and Cousins. Let's look at their ratings. Goff has an 82 rating 30 points lower than Cousins and Prescott, I'll pass on Goff. So I'm going to choose between Prescott and Cousins. The thing that really sticks out when you look at these guys they have both thrown for 18 touchdowns but Prescott has thrown 9 picks already this year. Cousins has thrown 3 and I remember the last one going through the hands of Diggs before bouncing off his facemask and into the defender's hands. It's surprising since Prescott plays behind the best OL in football. I think Prescott is a good player but I'll go with the more accurate and prudent Cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TouchdownSkin Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 On 10/29/2019 at 1:05 PM, COWBOY-KILLA- said: Not. At. All. I was SO over KC by the time it ended. I dislike Kirk very very much. He is disingenuous and craps the bed when you really really need him. Good riddance.. I agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 27 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: I'll venture a wild guess, Cousins refused to negotiate until after they had applied the franchise tag for the 3rd time. Signing Smith, helpful Andy Reid's discard was a facesaving maneuver because Snyder had alienated Cousin so badly he wouldn't consider signing anything other than a franchise tag and the idiots waited to long to trade him. You missed the point... We all know what happened and how it happened with Kirk. Thank you for the history lesson though old man. 27 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: Okay, I'll play along. I want a franchise quarterback. I want a highly productive, accurate pocket passer who is durable. The first quality I look for is availability, I want first of all a guy who stays healthy and starts every week. That eliminates Wentz who is very talented but has a history of serious injury. Next, I want a gifted pocket passer, not a dual-threat guy because running QBs get injured sooner or later. For example, Cam Newton may be done so soon because of all the banging has taken its toll. Running quarterbacks are fun to watch and can be very impactful for a while but I can't remember one lasting 12-15 years so I'm scratching Jackson, Watson, and Mahomes. Kirk is older than all of them but may outlast of them. So I'm down to Goff, Prescott, and Cousins. Let's look at their ratings. Goff has an 82 rating 30 points lower than Cousins and Prescott, I'll pass on Goff. So I'm going to choose between Prescott and Cousins. The thing that really sticks out when you look at these guys they have both thrown for 18 touchdowns but Prescott has thrown 9 picks already this year. Cousins has thrown 3 and I remember the last one going through the hands of Diggs before bouncing off his facemask and into the defender's hands. It's surprising since Prescott plays behind the best OL in football. I think Prescott is a good player but I'll go with the more accurate and prudent Cousins. 12-15 years??? How many QBs have lasted more than 4 years under the Dan... lol I will take Mahomes or Jackson over Cousins any day. By the way, this season, Jackson has more attempts from the pocket than Kirk Cousins, Mitchell Trubisky or Josh Allen. Let that run through your mind for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 9 hours ago, zskins said: I said WHY Alex was taken over Kirk and NOT what is happening RIGHT NOW. When the Skins got Alex this is what they were looking at. Notice who has more INT. 7.6 YPA for Cousins and 7.5 YPA for Smith, the "dink-and-dunk" label doesn't really apply for either player. In 2017, Drew Brees led the NFL with an 8.1 YPA. Smith tied for second at 8.8 and Cousins tied for ninth at 7.6. So tell me you would have still kept Kirk? Hmmm... let's try this exercise instead: If you could pick one which one would you pick, regardless of how our WR or OL looks like, Mahomes, Jackson, Watson, Cousins, Wentz, Goff or Prescott. Dude what did Alex smith do without ANDY REID?? Look at his full body of work please...we already got burned with mcnugget and we did the same thing with smith. and also out of the quarterbacks u mentioned above the only one we had was COUSINS so who cares about picking out of any of them...the point is we coulda built a team with cousins and been competitive, super bowls are tough to win but at least if we are playing the saints on Monday night we aren't getting blown out 500-10 or whatever it was, with Smith the offense was spineless if we were down 1 point we had no chance of coming back and winning...also just worth noting i would have been fine with letting kirk walk but what made it worse was trading for smith...had we taken a couple young qbs in the draft last year for the future and tried to build a team i would have been ok but trading for smith was just vomit worthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooterman Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Not at $30 million I don't regret it. If the price tag were $20 million it would be a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Hooterman said: Not at $30 million I don't regret it. If the price tag were $20 million it would be a different story. I agree with you but at the end of the day cousins at 30 million beats trent smith and reed at 44 million or whatever it is haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 39 minutes ago, Hooterman said: Not at $30 million I don't regret it. If the price tag were $20 million it would be a different story. We could have signed him for much cheaper instead doofus Bruce decided to tag him at $20 mil, and his price kept on escalating. I don't regret him since I believe he couldn't have raised his game being part of this dysfunctional team. It seems so far that he is improving like so many former Redskins, Preston says Hi There ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Alex "just like Kirk" Smith was on pace for 16 TDs, 8 INTS, 3500 yards, and had a 62.5 completion percentage before his injury last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probos Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Regret? As fans we had nothing to do with the decision to let him go,...so, how can I feel "regret"? As a former diehard fan of the team do I wish they could have signed him when they had the chance and not completely mishandled the situation (because of hubris hurt feelings)? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 KC was looking promising, and most every QB not named Brady are going to have good and bad years. But it wasn't only KC, it was the WRs and the chemistry. I could only imagine how it would have looked with Cousins and McLaurin developing a groove; once defenses begin to double up on McL, that's when other WRs step up, by play design, to become a big name in receiving. Too bad we'll never know what this could have been, and don't hold your breath for Smith; he won't throw the ball more than 10 yds and McL will be well past that range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said: Alex "just like Kirk" Smith was on pace for 16 TDs, 8 INTS, 3500 yards, and had a 62.5 completion percentage before his injury last year. Kirk "just like Alex" Cousins put up 4298 yards 30 touchdowns and 10 INTS and a 70.1 Completion Pct, Hardly Similar to alex. Of course people say "Kirk will always put up big numbers" thats the point...because he plays the game at the most valued position at a high level and not many quarterbacks can do that, He hasnt won a big game YET but his quarterback led teams more times then not are at least fighting for a chance to win a big game, now we are just a big pile of crap, im not blaming anyone else besides bruce and dan for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 3 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said: Dude what did Alex smith do without ANDY REID?? Look at his full body of work please...we already got burned with mcnugget and we did the same thing with smith. and also out of the quarterbacks u mentioned above the only one we had was COUSINS so who cares about picking out of any of them...the point is we coulda built a team with cousins and been competitive, super bowls are tough to win but at least if we are playing the saints on Monday night we aren't getting blown out 500-10 or whatever it was, with Smith the offense was spineless if we were down 1 point we had no chance of coming back and winning...also just worth noting i would have been fine with letting kirk walk but what made it worse was trading for smith...had we taken a couple young qbs in the draft last year for the future and tried to build a team i would have been ok but trading for smith was just vomit worthy Chill man...lol You need to go back to my original comment about how Alex was slightly better than Kirk and how I got to this stat stuff. Let's make it clear here. I liked Kirk. I wanted Kirk over RG3 the year after RG3 was hurt. They should have started Kirk up to the bye-week and bring RG3 back after the bye-week and in Dallas. But you know the coaches didn't listen to me.... moving along.... The FO got Gruden Alex who at the time was a slightly better version of Kirk because that was Bruce's I ****ed up and now here is a band-aid. It didn't work and wasn't going to work. If I was the GM I would have never gotten Alex. Alex was okay in San Fran and was okay in KC. Alex was never special and wasn't gong to become one here either. Some of us knew that but Bruce and Dan didn't know. I swear I think Bruce lives in a bubble or something. Yes a QB, Lamar Jackson, should have been selected in 2018 draft. But the Skins would have never selected him that high though. Not over Payne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Cousins is living in the penthouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 We traded young for old. Actually we traded multiple young for old. Universally dumb in pretty much all sports. And look at the result, he got injured. Shocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 On 11/12/2019 at 10:26 PM, TouchdownSkin said: I agree with this. Same here. Kirk came up small too many times in the games we needed to win. He is not worth what he got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinFanInMinn Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 16 minutes ago, kingdaddy said: Same here. Kirk came up small too many times in the games we needed to win. He is not worth what he got. I'm not sure anybody is arguing that he's worth what he got. However is he worth what it would have taken to keep him back before we started tagging him. I think you'll get more argument there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 hour ago, kingdaddy said: Same here. Kirk came up small too many times in the games we needed to win. He is not worth what he got. Well yes he is worth it cause there were multiple teams willing to pay him. The Jets were actually going to pay him more than the Vikes. It really doesn't matter what we think, the facts are Cousins got what someone was willing to pay. If company x was willing to pay you more for your services would you stay at your current company? No. Your co - workers may think you're not worth what company x is willing to pay you but so what. You're worth what someone is willing to pay. The Redskins blew this and now they're stuck with trying to find a QB when they already had one. The Redskins are the worst team in the league when it comes to picking and managing the QB position. Just my opinion but I feel the reason Dan and Bruce didn't like Cousins is cause he turned out to better than their pick. That embarrassed them and it's no surprise that they low balled him and in the end let him walk out the door. Had Griffin been able to put up the numbers Cousins was putting up he'd still be here and would have a long term deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 30 minutes ago, Alexa said: Had Griffin been able to put up the numbers Cousins was putting up he'd still be here and would have a long term deal. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Alexa said: Well yes he is worth it cause there were multiple teams willing to pay him. The Jets were actually going to pay him more than the Vikes. It really doesn't matter what we think, the facts are Cousins got what someone was willing to pay. If company x was willing to pay you more for your services would you stay at your current company? No. Your co - workers may think you're not worth what company x is willing to pay you but so what. You're worth what someone is willing to pay. Multiple teams were willing to spend $100 million for Albert Haynesworth. I don't hear many people saying it was a good deal at the time lol. Someone's worth isn't what the market is willing to pay, it's what YOU are willing to pay. If I want a box of donuts and someone tells me I'll have to spend $30 on that box because that's what the market is going for, I'm not gonna just shell out $30 because other people are stupid enough to do it lol 1 hour ago, Alexa said: The Redskins blew this and now they're stuck with trying to find a QB when they already had one. The Redskins are the worst team in the league when it comes to picking and managing the QB position. Just my opinion but I feel the reason Dan and Bruce didn't like Cousins is cause he turned out to better than their pick. That embarrassed them and it's no surprise that they low balled him and in the end let him walk out the door. Had Griffin been able to put up the numbers Cousins was putting up he'd still be here and would have a long term deal. You know it's a whole lot more complicated than that. Sucking vacuum cleaner hoses in 2013 and 2014 had a huge effect on how they were valued. One had a rookie of the year award under his belt when it happened, the other did not. That and being a 1st round draft pick that "multiple teams were willing to pay" gave Griffin a whole lot more leeway. Fair or not, Cousins didn't have those advantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 27 minutes ago, NickyJ said: Multiple teams were willing to spend $100 million for Albert Haynesworth. I don't hear many people saying it was a good deal at the time lol. Someone's worth isn't what the market is willing to pay, it's what YOU are willing to pay. If I want a box of donuts and someone tells me I'll have to spend $30 on that box because that's what the market is going for, I'm not gonna just shell out $30 because other people are stupid enough to do it lol Depends on how hungry you are and the availability of other food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, goskins10 said: Depends on how hungry you are and the availability of other food. I'd take the week old donuts that cost only $2. I'd take Ryan Fitzpatrick or Matt Moore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 minute ago, NickyJ said: I'd take the week old donuts that cost only $4. I'd take Ryan Fitzpatrick or Matt Moore. That assumes they are available. Don't get me wrong. I agree with the premise. I did not want the team to spend $30M/yr for Kirk. But the fact is in the NFL, desperate teams overpay for most any position but especially QB. Glad it was not us but it does not mean Kirk was not worth it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 16 minutes ago, NickyJ said: I'd take the week old donuts that cost only $2. I'd take Ryan Fitzpatrick or Matt Moore. Im sure u are ok with 3-13 and 2-14 respectively.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 To each their own on this. I get those who question Kirk in the clutch. However, we've been in the desert forever on QB. And we are knee deep again in the desert. Hopefully Haskins pulls us out of it. But based on current circumstances, I don't think our 1-8 team is better off that Kirk is gone just because of Kirk's specific flaws as a QB. He's a streaky, durable QB. There are downs with the ups but by a mile IMO we'd be better with him here than gone. We are paying as is over 30 million for the QB position. In three years, we went from having one of the best passing games in the NFL -- not just Kirk but the passing game weapons to one of the worst. Haskins has to work out (and I hope he does big time) for any of this to be vindicated. If Haskins doesn't emerge, then letting go Kirk is a debacle. I don't give a rats behind in that context whether Kirk is as good as Brees or Mahomes or name that dude or whether he is overrated or not. It would only matter to me if he's better than who we are left with. If they let Kirk go and went totally cheap at Qb, i could have rode that and see where that went. And the narrative would be different because we'd be all in on testing principle about rookie QB contracts versus veterans. And I said so the same off season when we let him go. But that's not the ride they took so am judging it by exactly what transpired thus far. The latest PFF grades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.